[Music] hey fell and tear those of us who like our spirituality with a Twist so we're doing nine things that could [...] up your life that's right DST obstacles and we got into number five which was kind of an interesting one being we took the emphasis on being plagued by self-inflicted suffering there's another one that is another part of it which is just having life kind of kick your ass which we did talk about last week too we got into a certain amount of time talking about being plagued by self-inflicted suffering and I tried to make it kind of personal in last week's episode basically going okay well I'm getting my ass kicked and so uh here it is and so I'm in the midst of this which I guess is a theme that we've been talking about on this podcast for a while that spiritually spirituality now is going to involve people being been sharing in this way this is the time you know Eric let me let me read this passage real quick just to for to give people the reminder um and the other yeah because the there's one other part in here that I like to always blame myself or others so it's fun for me to be able to use that anyways it says uh in your youth you were unwilling to cultivate and in old age you continue to injure your spirit even when you lose your vitality and become ill your mischievous mind still refuses to wake up or you were born in a hardship and were doomed to suffer all of your life being plagued by self-inflicted suffering and crushed by difficult livelihood this is the fifth obstacle and the part for me that really kind of sticks out is the unwilling to cultivate and the continual the continuation of injuring one's Spirit you know it's a conscious it's a conscious effort to be to to be unconscious essentially interesting point so you're saying like yeah there's uh it does enough damage that it actually costs you the more to be unconscious and there's almost little bit of like cutting off your nose despite your face or something yeah yeah yeah so I went to it when I first read it and then like last week ended up being a time to talk about though uh you know things seem to be uh better in the life of your humble podcast Host this guy wonderful so um fingers uh definitely crossed and hoping for all the best of things you know yeah or you know someone super dear to my heart but in any case you know it was really kind of going to the idea of like okay what does it mean to like have your mind torment your mind and then we got to the point of really trying to talk about like what do you do about that yeah and we talked through a few things you know I kind of when I was thinking about I kind of jotted down my ideas of things that I've partially things I've done before things that are in the tradition that you could do so we talked about this idea about uh cutting off the negative thoughts like you're swinging a sword and you went pretty deep into like the visualization of that thing yeah and yeah this weekend we had um uh me and and Christian who was on the podcast before who was a student of yours another fellow acupuncturist uh who will be on again um we did a men's retreat in uh New Buffalo Michigan or Indiana I don't know where it is it's nearby it's not far it's not far from Chicago for for New Buffalo Midwest right yeah that's right it's in the Midwest and it's about an hour from where we live and we uh rented a nice place and and um had about a half a dozen uh guys who came out and and um were working on this stuff and we I I you the the conversation that we had last time was really a springboard for what I ended up sharing with them uh technique wise on how to work with their with their that's interesting so you were talking about some of the the exact same kinds of techniques absolutely absolutely and one of the things that really came up because you you know I we wanted to share what you know I want to see if something come up so Eric and I were talking about with how much I'm going to share from my men's weekend uh on this on the podcast before we started recording and I said nothing and then of course as we're talking something came and and so you know in the in the spirit of being vulnerable it's it's a unique position to to kind of be in as as the as the transmitter you know of this information to other people which at that time you know meaning when I'm on Retreat and I'm and I'm the sort of meditation leader if you will in this or or I don't know transmitter I don't know a better way to put it maybe or something facilitator sure however you know however you want to look at it it is that like in the in the settings that I have been taught and in many of the settings that Eric you have been taught there's a there is some there is a bit of a hierarchy you know a little bit or or like an inherent um reverence even if you don't know that person personally it's just that's it's just there but in these settings they're far more informal you know and in my opinion this sort of forces the barriers to be sort of shattered a little bit because you're you know you're all in the same things and and people want to relate to other people in my opinion we were talking a little bit about this earlier and the Beautiful part about that is that people will share and what and in a normal setting it's a question and answer one person asks a question one person answers and then that's kind of the end of it and not everybody shares and you know whatever but in this setting it's kind of intentional you go around the circle and ask people to share and somebody somebody and I forgot the exact wording um but I remember my my response to it and they were talking about being like a lifelong student you know but this person is older than I am by at least 10 12 years you know and in that moment it awoken a deep thought in me that like really like brought something up and I said this is the first moment that I realized that my passion for learning May Outlast this body oh okay yeah yeah yeah and that I've never had a thought like that a thought that ex that like or or a feeling you know what I'm saying and then look there's you know people who we have in our life and who we love and and we believe that we'll love them beyond the body you know but that's an extension outside of myself at least I can say for me but in this case this was an extension that wasn't attached to anything else it's an it's in I guess I could say it's a desire if we want to call it it's in a in a not so good way to to learn that doesn't seem to have an end well I mean what could be more beautiful than that yeah I don't know but it was it was one of these it was one of these things that was brought up brought upon after a long you know probably an hourong kind of group meditation and for an hour is not necessarily a long period is not a long sitting but for people who have meditation practices of zero minutes a day or maybe 10 an hour is very long yeah it's very difficult when you first have to do that to be honest yeah and and then after that you are in a much more clear State much clearer State and so the things that that they were sharing were on a far deeper level you know Way Beyond the mundane of like oh my back was hurting me you know there not you know that wasn't there and so when he said that that awoken or that that had awakened that piece of me that was just so awesome maybe just it's it's this we both kind of have the little of this thing it's that spontaneity of that thought just appearing like in the moment yes in an unforced way that's like shocking you know yes I remember like having like they have this bodic cheetah thought which is like I'm gonna try and improve myself so I can help others it's just a thought yeah but when it really hits you super hard that can be a moment in your life remember thinking like I'm working on myself okay trying to get my own [...] together with the ultimate intention I'm going to help others that's what this is Boom yeah like okay is that when you tell to somebody they'll be like okay well that's cool but like when you really have that feeling that spontaneous feeling in yourself and it's so clear and so strong you know uh something again you would say probably like Beyond Theory or something like that absolutely you read in the book it occurred to you spontaneously inside of yourself yeah that's a deep thing yeah yeah yeah I guess that's part of what that this little whole podcast project is a part is about when we talk about it in this other way which is you know we're taking these ideas and we're trying to own them right that spirituality as far as we're going here right that's the Twister to own it and so I think I have owned this idea that I'm trying to L to work to learn Beyond this lifetime I've owned that idea like I am kind of comfortable with the idea like okay I'm I'm learning things now and that will carry forward as this being called Eric ceases to be but something else continues on right yeah yeah yeah yeah but you know there is something when it's not Theory when it's like that spontaneous moment told there was um there was a time that um you know I don't think I've ever sh I mean I've shared this with you Eric but I don't think I've shared it on the podcast before you know people know that I you know I've worked in legal settings with uh you know plant medicines of course you know outside of this country and in all the places that it's uh totally doable and and following all the local laws and regulations just in case I run for Congress I got to leave all of my doors open um you know but there was a point in in which you know look this these sometimes these things are uncomfortable just like long meditation sessions are can be very uncomfortable you're going to deal with some obstacles but they're there probably intentionally you know to help you to like work through them to understand understand that like the the yin the compression aspect of of the practice the the tighter that squeeze inevitably on the other side the larger the release you know that's just the kind of accordion effect of doing almost anything of significance how it goes and and I'm not going to go into because a really it was a long a long experience but I'm not going to go into all of it but basically at the point at which I felt and was most uncomfortable and this was hours of Agony hours and hours of of absolute agony I you know really had I was questioning what's the purpose what is the purpose of my mortality why am I going to return to the body that I don't want to be in anymore and and I thought of you know people who would be hurt if I was to leave you know my partner my mom my that's basically all that I could think of sort of like an intense plant medicine experience yeah just a c yeah yeah no no I'm glad you did yeah it absolutely clear you know know what you're talking about it's it's we had a lot of conversations about yeah a deeply transformative set of experiences for you absolutely because I was at this point I was completely I didn't have an identity I wasn't a person there was no there was nothing left to hold on to it were just I don't know some magnetic force you know in in a between state if you will will and and I was like well I don't I can't come I can't go back to that you know and I can't be guilted into coming I I I realize that guilt could do that you know or like feeling of wanting to please someone else or not wanting them compassion I guess you could probably say you know but it was but it was like maybe more empathy because you were directing it towards some particular people but that didn't do it that didn't do it and I had hoped that it would make okay you're right you know what I'm going to do this for for old Jimmy you know and I'm gonna you know whatever but I didn't care about old Jimmy Old Uncle Pete I'm coming back I'm coming back Uncle Pete and we're gonna go watch baseball games you know like that didn't do it you know and these are the two deepest Rel you know some of the deepest relationships of my life you know my partner and and my mother you know that didn't do it and as I'm sitting in this you know really uncomfortable state for a very long period of time totally dissociated I at some point it just you know mon pedm came to me and and I and I just continue to repeat this Mantra over and over and over again and um if you want to give the the the I don't know the exact translation of it because it's just like inside of me boy I don't know if I fully know the exact translation of it either which I probably should probably should I've had my hung oh it's something about like uh uh well you know if I [...] it up I'll feel embarrassed no that's okay I have a feeling of what I think it is is but if I say it wrong I'll feel like the shame yeah don't worry about it um but you know it's like it's a praise to the to thees it's yeah CH yeah yeah it's a it's a transforming the impurities of the body speech and mind to the mind of a Buddha and it's like the most common kind of well that we can talk about I mean what it what it's about yeah of compassion right it's it's a compassionate Mantra it's the most famous act like I feel like I know what it means like verbatim but I'll feel bad if I [...] it up yeah but you know like not try to do that but I feel like I know but anyway it gives it's said to give people positive effect in their life speciically for like love and compassion as opposed to like the mry one which is more for wisdom you know and you both like mry too like both like both of these what's not the like yeah exactly so like why not like it's kind of like the uh uh Our Father who are in heaven of the Buddhist World in my opinion you know like that's the one that you'll you'll you'll hear most in the Tibetan Buddhist world right where they do the oh put they'll put on a like a bumper sticker or something I had car like kind of all over the place so this Mantra just came out of nowhere essentially and I started saying it and then I I had this deep like Rush of motivation to come back and help teach people to help heal people to you know what I'm saying like and I was like and then I I literally said out loud and it's a very long convoluted story but like I was sitting naked in a bathtub at this point and I I remember this part of the story yeah and I said it wasn't wasn't like in a good time way it was in like I'm barely holding my [...] together I'm in this bathtub right I'm in this bathtub C my body and mind down correct and basically I was in the bathtub because uh I felt like if I died at least I would they could wash my body in the tub and they wouldn't have to like clean my excrement and urine up off the floor as a grown man you know I was concerned about embarrassing myself and the people around me if I was not able to come back so um there was a it was a legitimate I was fearful enough that I decided to take the bathtub option you know what I'm saying but that the motivation say cleaniness is Next to Godliness that's what they but this this Mantra came and the feeling of like the that bodic saic ideology of of EX giving more than you take you know essentially came through and I said okay I could I can get with that I can do this and I can do it for that reason but for no other reason other than that I cannot there's nothing else there's nothing personal that I want to accomplish there's nothing there's no thing that can hold me here no person that can hold me here but that motivation that motivation is real and then I fixated my attention on that motivation until you know until I basically like pulled myself uh back together I mean that's deep Daniel and thanks for sharing that thing you know that's been a conversation that we had going on some years ago right when you went through these experiences and been yeah and as we were talking like before we got on these mics it was okay part of what we're trying to do is we're trying to put ourselves in vulnerable places you know to talk about how we Tred to do these things for real and that's that's what we're doing so yeah for sure yeah thanks man so I guess what I would add to the list of techniques within that is probably Mantra because we were trying to walk through things that you could use like what do you do when your mind is [...] with you right and in this case you know it was even like more than that for you you were going to something something really deep but in a certain sense you had to deal with what your mind was doing right yes y Spirit was doing and uh that was part of I was going to get to here this idea that you can use Mantra and sometimes for me in my experience with this it's been mantras that and and this is all the stuff I was doing right yeah they can be mantras that you have some special initiation into or something right and you know we have those kinds of things and some of those I have a real deep feeling about some of those mantras are really kind of important to me they're what you call like more highest yoga Tantra things where you wouldn't just kind of talk about them in an episode and just share them because they're not considered to be full access or something like that and I try to respect the tradition in that sense but om Pung tarat tarat SOA those are like kind of like out in the public domain yeah it's not like Mickey Mouse where like you have to pay Disney like still I still can't get [...] Mickey Mouse in the public domain can they not yet they they changed something I know they changed the laws so Mickey mous will never go into public domain for Walt Disney but anyways there's nothing do with these mantras it just pops in my head but when you look at it um you know some of these mantras uh you know are they're not like some special initiatory thing and so if you haven't tried that that's worthwhile trying too if your mind is being a little torturous with you omong tar tarat so Tara's mantra aes's Mantra those are like things and then it's a you know some people had like kind of funny reactions to this you know we like Brad Warner and we want to get him on here at some point he's one of the Zen guys and he always kind of blasts these mantras a little bit like you're just kind of like suppressing your your negative thoughts or something and he kind of takes a I guess a somewhat negative attitude towards them but that hasn't been my experience at all I think they have a lot of power and they do powerful things in the moment and it is a way of like you put your mind into the Mantra and it doesn't have the space to [...] with you that's true but it's also that the those things have a certain you know healing power to them right so I mean it's another thing could V you know if we were making this episode part like what do you do when you're in in the thick of things right yes when you're in the midst that's another one that was sort of on the list to cover and you kind of just went into it just kind of naturally in the flow of things right yeah yeah and then it just I mean you knew the Mantra already but obviously it spoke to you like you know in the moment right yeah it it arose naturally yeah and it goes I guess in our Carl Young episodes that gets to the idea like these mantras are both internal and external things they're representatives of parts of our own psyche and mind in some archetype of way but they're also like forces of the universe or something right yeah propensity propensities in the universe yeah so you can so Andre told me that Mantra also can you could translate Mantra as mind protector that yeah that's how I learned it too I was like yeah exactly that exactly yep we 100% s Paco on that yeah when I first learned that I was like oh okay I see because that's true it's trying to protect the mind right yes yes and and so you know and I'm looking up Mantra and you know Miriam web in terms of dictionaries Mariam Webster is still the best just in case for people who are you know look looking things up um but I love this I love this it says the meaning of Mantra is a mystical formula of invocation or incantation and when I teach the you know when I speak about Shamanism I always say that words are incant and people say well why is that I say because you spell words I.E one is casting a spell when you use them I'm sorry didn't catch the pun at first yeah the Deep pun the deeper pun the Deep pun right and so you know it's a it's a mystical formula of invocation meaning that like as things arise naturally the you know when to call it the vibration or the current of that Mantra whatever it's associated with love compassion or wisdom or you know healing comes up and out through you via the Mantra we I talked about this a lot at the mentor treat this weekend actually about like you know how to use it and the importance of it and we have never talked about this so maybe this is the time to do it but um you know a very famous kind of meditation is known currently of modern is known as Transcendental Meditation yeah now I'm not going to dunk on people I'm not gonna say I'm not going to yuck someone's yum as we like to say here you know however I can say for those who don't know what Transcendental Meditation is just very briefly if you want to I'll do it Eric if you want or if you want to do it no please do it because I like I don't feel like I have expertise enough to talk about this you know I mean I never practiced it so yeah I'll abstain from comment just because I just don't know if I know enough so I've had a couple clients who've gone and Friends who've gone through the training so I've had some in-depth conversations with them or what they were willing to share with me about it let's put it like this I've not I've not done the training myself but from what I'm aware of you do the training and I don't know exactly what happens in the training but at the end the end result is this practice two 20 minute sessions a day using uh a mantra but that Mantra doesn't have any meaning I don't know what the words are you know maybe that's part of the secret part but it's you know bobbly blah blah blah or you know whatever red dog cat run I don't know what the Mantra is well mantras are just to like interject just for a second because I mean like but you know this happened to me when I was first learning like chanting the Buddha sutras and they say a lot of weird [...] in there you know so sometimes there'll be words that'll have meaning sometimes they don't have meaning sometimes they're just there for sound and I didn't interrupt your flow in doing it but it's it's just interesting because when you go to figure out what they actually mean sometimes it's very odd when you read them you know yes fire fire howl the wind the wind you're like okay then some other syllables don't make any sense you know so you how all these things are put together but there is a kind of a power to it anyways correct so but but the it's taught as non-religious so anyone can do TM okay okay so that's so the words not having meaning is intentional without meaning the the sutras and maybe I'm a revisionist in a way I believe that there is meaning we just don't know the meaning you know what I'm saying so if they are a ma what say a mystical formula which I cannot tell you how much I love that mystical formula of invocation then those words are are the syllables are used there to make that song they're used there as a flavor to complete the dish you know what I'm saying um anyway so people this Mantra they have this practice so they're doing two 20-minute sessions a day saying a mantra over and over again to help collect the thoughts and collect the mind and protect the mind because we said that's what Mantra means but the problem here is the problem right John Stewart's former show on Apple TV that was pulled um the problem is that you are missing an opportunity and I love analogies so my analogy for this would be if you drove your Lamborghini to Walgreens to go by your you know whatever chips and soda and then when you had to go on the freeway to visit your family you drove in your Honda Civic Yeah Yeah it's you're missing the opportunity to have a good time you know what I'm saying and that like the transmission at least in my opinion and and you know we all have our various studies on I mean me I mean you and I and and people who are listening to this because I know this is listened to and watched people have various inputs from their culture and from their religious practices and things that they have learned you know and so I'm not you know saying anything negative towards anybody but the language in which I believe the language in which the the the teachings were transmitted were transmitted in that language on purpose right I'm not saying everything is done on purpose that fate whatever I'm not saying that I'm just saying that language was chosen for that particular thing English is not that language it is not that language and so doing a direct translation from something into English loses so much loses so much partly because the syllables that were chosen for that have resonance these are seed syllables they're not just letters right in in addition the the way in which that you would draw you would make something like a dish if it's if it's a um if they herbs local to a specific area you can use analogous herbs to make a similar dish but it's not that particular dish it's a it's a similar but not the same dish so when someone is practicing TM and they're using Mantra they're they're doing a really good thing by meditating and using Mantra but if they used a mantra that actually had meaning around it the me the psychic meaning of the translation of that Mantra can be imbued upon their body number one and given that we are like 70 80% water the vibrations from those frequencies will absolutely have a positive change on us given the fact that like you can change the shape of molecules you know with vibrations right just like sound does because you're using sound to change yourself so for me it's close but it doesn't come over the end and and this is not dunking again not dunking on TM it's showing the power of the tool of montra if you use it in its full breath and what it can do for you and that it is not and I'll be happy to with Brad uh if we ever get him on about this that that you know it does just because he doesn't like it doesn't mean that it's it's not the powerful tool it's actually we are visual creatures for sure but we are far more audio creatures far more audio creatures and so the ability to use that stream of attention to trap your attention and catch it eventually it will be it'll be drawn back into the Whirlwind that you're creating and it'll turn back in and on of itself and it will search for the source of itself at some point I know that was a a mouthful but I'll let you well so I guess maybe this episode because we we'll have time limitations what we'll be able to do but maybe this episode wind up being like the one about like Mantra in yes okay cool so Mantra is a technique of dealing with the mind that wants to torture itself right I'm really glad that you brought up the whole Mantra means mind protection I that's was always a striking thing when I first learned it and I didn't think about it and putting in the notes I'm so glad you did that right and the TM thing I guess I don't know if I fully get it I thought the way TM worked and maybe it seems like you know people who know better than I do obviously I thought the way it worked was that they give you your own individual Mantra I didn't know it was like purposely like without context or tradition or sense or meaning I thought it was something that they gave you that had that a richer thing but I guess you're telling me no that's what I was told wow okay and I have one long-term friend I mean I've known him for 17 18 years you know we talked about it well again I don't know what to say about there are people I know like say for example David Lynch the film director Twin Peaks and uh blue velvet and you know mahand drive and you know these movies he does TM and so I mean I I've listened to him talk about a little bit you know I guess what I'm trying to say is there's people I know who I kind of have a fondness for who do it but I never really understood it and I get your critique your critique is more like well hey if you're gonna do this practice you could do om manong correct or do OT taratara or Tara's Mantra or you could do some other thing that has much more uh resonance and meaning which you say an invocation part of that when you think about this you're using your own mind and then that's what Brad Warner was talking about in a certain sense your mind's weird thoughts can't appear because it's being protected by the flow of activity that's this Mantra and it's kind of awesome that it's like that subjectively you can feel that like I was going through I've gone through ups and downs in my personal life within that last year and I was like spending some time in Paris and I was trying to like clean my mind up in certain ways so I just chose one of my mantras and I was using it like throughout the whole day as I was like traveling around in Paris we're Frozen I think no we're good you froze for a second are we still good yeah we're good are we're good yeah okay so I was just going around Paris they were actually having like a Harvest Festival he had a little technical difficulties fellow G and tear yeah but uh you I just was I was purposely using the Mantra you know it's one of the ones I do all the time I do you know some sometimes when you you take an empowerment in one of these things you make a certain commitment to say a certain number of them every day and this one I do probably like hund and something a day or something along with the other ones that I do short piy and I kind of like when I did the retreats in the Dal Lamas Monastery out New York they even make them a little bit Musical and I was like y i I'll put my own tune on it it's fine whatever Tunes in my head I'll put it I'll I'll make it around om peh hung you know yeah it can be ohman peh hung fine with Seven Nation Army that's totally fine oh I can't do it off the top of my head I wish I could I'll practice it for next week I'll [...] it up but anyways yeah you can cross it whatever you want you know make it Purple Haze combined with Omar R whatever song is in your head you know yeah um and you know you put the music behind it and so I was like I was going around Paris and I was like wow this is really uh healing you know and whatever funky thoughts are in my head and whatever was going on I could see them getting kind of like shifted out I kept doing it throughout the time in Paris and I did it on my flight home you know and I did it when I got back to Chicago and I'll do it like periodically when I feel like I need that that Mantra that mind protection right anyways it's just you to share the subjective of it right it's can be like a really powerful thing right yeah and I guess what you're saying is then the addition is like when you tap on the one that has that energy that gets to the invocation part because in a certain sense in that moment you feel like oh I'm not just protecting my mind by saying things that are going to distract it I'm actually protecting my mind by bringing in sort of spiritual power and force that's associated with this Mantra that's Transcendent of myself yeah that could be hard to believe so I get if people are kind of like I could imagine saying something in my own head that protects me from my own negative thoughts because it distracts away or it fills up the space that I can buy in with but I don't if I can buy the idea of I'm also tapping into something else external I get it that's not always an easy thing to believe in I don't know if I was like you know I was raised Catholic so I had some sense of that but you know you have you can have weird feelings about that ambivalent feelings about whether you believe that or not believe that right I suppose part of my upbringing was was raised to believe in that right but maybe when I got away from that kind of religiosity maybe I got a little bit more like I'm not sure if I want to believe in this anymore right you know so I can empathize with people who would be like I don't know if I can believe that I'm tapping into some Force called Tara in the universe some Force called Abes what I even know what that even means you know see that it would create some doubt in that but um I think that's where Jung was kind of helpful for the episodes last year because he does say you know it's not just inside of you it's outside and there's that synchronicity between what's happening inside of you and outside right yeah helps you know um but that's the invocation part that they're referring to right you're also in not just doing something with your own mind you're invoking a power that's bigger than you correct yeah yeah yeah yeah MH and so like when I can I think what I when I when I teach people this even though I realize that like it's It's associated with a particular kind of you know deity practice right I de anthropomorphize how about that how about that for a that's a coinage roll with it R that is R yeah keep going my anthropomorphize basically I remove the deity from the practice yeah yeah and what I say is that this is a practice based on forgiveness or based on healing right and that is the energy that is the psycho emotional energy that we are tapping into this being that is will be pictured here is an embodiment they are the doorway they are the reminder they're the carrier of it but it is not them specifically themselves of that thing and so if you can share something with someone with love right or with with a with with with the desire to be healing in your words then you too in that moment are an emanation of Tara in my the way that I try and relate people to do it this way they can feel like it's not an external source that it's the source within them and thereby their words have healing quote unquote power if you will and thereby they when they you so if I can get them to believe that or think that that's a possibility then we could take the next logical step and say okay if you can use your words to heal then these are just different words that are used to heal and now you're repeating them in within your own head and so you're tapping into that source of healing in a in a kind of a way this is how I approach that uh hesitation well I mean that's what like I think the young thing did he said well let's make this inside of you and then people go oh it's a part of me okay cool and that we can do right yeah then I think the thing that happens like all I can do is share my own experience right that's where so as you go through it a part of it like if you can get to the empirical Part of Yourself kicking in yeah right the part that's like okay let me suspend disbelief I won't judge this one way or the other right I'll just do this thing right yeah yeah yeah yeah and this goes all the way back to me like in my zen days because the Mantra thing is like a lot of the chanting that they do you know in the Zen world too right yeah yeah yeah there's chanting that you do and um some of it hard they're they're mantras you're chanting mant absolutely no doubt they're even a little bit longer but you know there ones that you're doing and I think initially there was a part of me that was like what the [...] am I doing here yeah say a bunch of [...] in a language they don't know correct to do what like what's this supposed to do and the way it was explained to me and we've talked about this a little bit was like and again we're musical people so it was like these words have a musicality these words have a feeling a power and you're saying like that's why the words were chosing on purpose yeah which is what you're trying to raise is maybe at least the question about TM though you know I can we I mean we're not trying to bash anybody but that's it's air question if that's how it is right yeah yeah that's how it was that's how it was told to me yeah yeah yeah so yeah so when I first got this presented I was like okay well I guess I can buy it on there you know words have a musicality have a rhythm have a power right and then you just do it and when you start to do it you start to realize that this will if you look at your own mind you can start to noce well this has having an effect right even though I don't know what these things mean the feelings of these words and The rhythms of them and the sounds you're saying seed syllables right these syllables that have a certain power to them have this impact and yeah so there was a couple of in particular it was one where they're trying to get you to overcome Fear And as far as a chant goes it's a little bit pithier than like chanting the heart Sutra the heart Sutra is a little long it's a chant you just go through and you do it but this was a shorter thing where you do it over and over again multiple times they're like well that's a mantra that's a mantra right and it was like supposed to be about overcoming fear and like I began to like say well does this help me overcome fear and I been realize it probably does MHM some level it does feel less afraid when you go and you do this thing because it has some power in it and that's the empirical part I guess I was trying to reference right yeah Eric so I just I just looked it up I looked up uh TM meditation Mantra and it said in TM the Mantra is a quote meaningless sound used as a vehicle to help the Mind settle down H I wonder if they're just selling it that way because people would get a little bit funny if they knew there was supposed to be some other meaning behind it yeah it's possible I'll buy in if that's the thing well that then your critique makes sense on some level right I can understand it I've never done it so I guess I can't say from my own experience empirically but it is kind of a weird question why not do something that has more of a tradition and meaning behind it to create an effect well I think then that would be religious religious in its uh thing but we can do we can do a full we could do a more deeper dive this just came up sort of yeah yeah yeah yeah and but it's it raises an interesting question about the nature of Mantra right right that but that's the point of it is that you know we we we love this mythical formula of invocation or incantation yeah so maybe the next I mean we have to wrap this up who knows when these where these [...] episodes are going to go but this one went here this one went here so um and we are talking trying to talk about things that will could [...] up your life one of the things that could [...] up your life if your mind keeps torturing yourself correct for sure and what do you have as a technique about that Mantra mind protection right absolutely how do you start to learn how to do that well maybe you learn how to to do it by to me like I had to suspend this belief I had to go like okay I'm not going to judge this I'm just going to do this and I'll watch my own mind and I'll see what happens m i mean even you to get the feeling like you're tapping into something outside of yourself well then you're Carl Young correct and in this culture we do have motivating force right I mean what is a slogan it's a mantra Nike just do it yeah yeah yeah right you there was a UFC fighter Rose nunit she's like you know F famous kind of female fighter and as she's walking up to the ring she's saying I'm the best I'm the best I'm the best I'm the best and then she totally knocked this other chick out you know who she was totally outmatched just head kicked her and dropped her then she's like I'm the [...] best you know she's like you know what I'm saying so but she kept repeating that to herself and that in in in that sense that was that was her Mantra yeah know now the point you're making is kind of interesting though because the that kind of positive selft talk can be kind of awesome too right yeah yeah yeah well Eric what was that what was that guy on uh on Saturday Night Live from way back in the day um he's like he looks in the mirror and he's like you're oh yeah you're the best you can do it everybody likes youart SMY there you go yes Stuart small you're good enough yes you're you're strong enough and God gosh darn it people like you or there you go that's it so great about there was one where he had like Michael Jordan on yes and like you know he's there he doesn't know who MJ even is yeah so he's a guest on the Stuart SMY show and he starts going to Michael like I know sometimes when you're out there and you you're dribbling the ball and you're trying to like put it into the basket you feel like I'm not good enough and Michael's like well no I don't really feel that way come on Michael the n's more than river in Egypt he does that thing to him Jordan can barely keep his [...] together you know it's live and he's like gonna lose it so he's trying to trying to hold it together then eventually she's like Michael look in the mirror I'm good enough I'm as good as those other players gosh darn it that's right barely holding it together so good yeah all right so I guess maybe ending the episode like okay that's cool and then but maybe the if you want to try a mantra then the whole thing about the Mantra is it has an energy it has a feeling to it it's been preserved down through the years and maybe you do tap into something Beyond yourself yeah and maybe you're just open your mind up to the possibility of that yeah all right well think great I got unfortunately I do have to go it's a great conversation this is good it's it's it's perfect you never know where this is GNA go and it's like uh it's cool that it went to this place so yeah well we still haven't finished number five still haven't and we'll probably do visualizations next week so you know yeah visualizations next week but it is like we're trying to get to the idea of like what do you do if your mind is going to torture yourself how do you learn how to handle it this this thing that can [...] up your life what's even crazier Eric is that you know last year you you were really keen on doing those the love episodes this is what I have been keen on doing for years like this and now we're we're okay it's good yeah now this is good it's all about the love and the technique together right that's correct that's what the Kamasutra is love and technique ah okay we went through you wanted you wanted there you go talk about Tantra at some point yeah all right very cool all right brother thanks so much and um you know as always everybody thank you for for tuning in whether you're on the YouTube you know give a like comment subscribe hit that notification Bell ding ding so you can get the uh uh the drop when we do our drop right for sure weekly um if you're listening to us definitely you know leave us an email or hit us up on Instagram Jin and Tantra uh the Jin and Tantra podcast sorry if you're emailing us Jin and Tantra gmail.com and if you've made it to the end of the video you are in the top 10% of attention so hope that we have provided you with some education and entertainment um these last couple episodes really since we started on this thing this is real [...] you know like this is not patty cake uh we are not selling you anything we are sharing deep technique that has been effective uh in our lives and we hope that people take it and uh use it and if you have any questions we love to talk about this um you know we would we would certainly be open to do something live if people were interested you know in doing like a Q&A um so you know whatever yall are interested in hit us up on Instagram Jin and Tantra podcast email Jin and Tantra gmail.com and the YouTube links no problem uh and if you know us personally you can uh give us a shout directly so we're open to all the things as this is a passion project but fortunately we are full of passion and other things for Eric this is Daniel I think yeah also yeah plenty of that no no we're doing the best we can not be that's really we're actually doing the best we can not to be we want be kind of like real what we're doing y yeah yeah totally for Eric this is Daniel we'll catch you guys in the next one peace [Music] peace