Kind: captions Language: en [Music] hey B tears those of us who like our spirituality with a Twist um so Daniel has we're gonna full disclosure full disclosure we're doing it same same gear you hav change shirts the same thing it's just you know yeah no like we had the idea of like splitting these episodes up so this is the second part of this thing we're gonna like uh try to be part of your uh spiritual life even more that's right yeah so last episode we were just talking about you know Dr Nita and really looking at the Sutra thing and the Tantra thing and these different approaches like kind of using them as a discussion point for like different approaches of how you think about spirituality especially the idea of attachment so you know Dr Nita has like a little chart where he Compares these things we can kind of Kick this around and see the implications yeah so on the one hand you could have spiritual paths that are ones of renunciation yes you step away from your desires you pull away and other ones where you're kind of going to kind of work more on emotional transformation of your attachment and desires and we' been talking about that the last couple of episodes yeah and then when you get to the ones that are more pulling back then you're purposely trying to create avoidance of the emotions avoidance of uh yeah you're purposely pulling back of course in the most extreme parts of this this is a monastic thing with where otherwise you're kind of trying to do more of a direct confrontation and transformation of your feelings and I mean that's a kind of interesting one to kind of consider what that means practically when you start thinking about that do you kind of like step back from from the things that are troubling or do you like kind of like go towards them right and try to like use them and embrace them yeah I you know I guess as we go through it all we can think of what seems more challenging or more easy I think probably there's going to be parts that might seem more easy or more challenging to different people but um I guess if we get personal I've always been very interested in this idea of like I I just I guess it's like tantric Intuition or tantric Karma or something where I thought okay the deeper thing for me has always seemed to be more let me not run from these things but try to like embrace them and use them and I I had this notion in my mind that there was sort of a meaning behind them I sort of had some idea that like these things wouldn't be here unless they had some purpose or something to them you know if I always feel that way you know if I've always kept up that Faith or belief but theyve sort of felt that way most of the time you know that they're they're here for some reason whether it's like sexual feelings romantic feelings you know stronger emotions I thought there's something to be learned from these things there's some reason that they're here is that something you thought about lot too Daniel one of my favorite quotes Robert Frost the only way out is through oh yeah yeah yeah and I no for sure yeah I mean one like that too he says the way out is through the door how come no one uses that method it's a good one uhuh yeah yeah I mean for sure it's like well but I mean but that's the whole that's it's like one of our core tenants is like using your life as a teacher and thus taking all the things that are are part of it and you know like in my notes I I put um obstacles that have a purpose but like I don't even know that I could say they're obstacles they opportunities really you know but it really does depend and I you know and look we are very kind of aware of the uh we're not kind of aware we're extremely aware of the vast differences in people's lives and potential for difficulty and suffering based on socioeconomic status place in the world gender identity all the things things very class stuff okay fine but there is an aspect of how you're going to see your own particular journey and what's what's in it in order to be able to help you progress in your life to whatever that is you know there is that that that goes across all bounds now of course you have to hear things as we talked about in our previous episode of you know thus I have I heard or have I heard overheard one time you know you you have to be introduced to some of these things so I always feel very for very fortunate to have been introduced to them and that is one reason why and I'm sure Eric it's the same way for you we're so passionate about sharing these things because it is truly life altering if you could put those goggles on and say all right this is you know I I use euphemism a lot but this is f to my fire yeah yeah yeah yeah so I suppose like on some level you know for me you might think well we're all going to go through our ups and downs of this what I'm trying to get to is okay maybe you I'm going to follow a path where I'm going to be more embracing of these things and I get hurt yeah I go through and I put my heart out maybe in some connection with another person I get hurt or I put myself in some Venture put my heart out and I get hurt or whatever that might be yeah and there can be that like flinching back feeling of like oh man maybe this is a mistake maybe I should be more like those 10% happier people we were talking about last episode and I should be more non-attached yes so I mean there's the there's that aspect you know but um even in all of that I still think you know it's it's another option of how to live your life you know and Eric even even in that statement it's like it's not attached to the outcome you're you're you know what I'm saying like yeah you're you're still attached to the process you know you know what I mean like you're still going to do it and so like you know I me and my brother you know we we we share many things and we're different people and he'll be on actually so I'm looking forward to that I think at the beginning February and uh you know him and I both and I just found this out today we both pray the same way we never I never ask for anything I never because I don't believe that whoever whatever is that I'm praying to is Santa and that like here's my wish list of things that I want please give it to me you know what I'm saying but that I always ask for the highest good and in comparison my brother always asks to be uh a tool for the best outcome yeah it's nice you know and so in this way you're not you know I'm attached to the process but I'm inherently not attached to the outcome because I'm leaving that open to the whatever it is they say the hand that writes the story of the universe or whatever it is you know yeah well I mean it's like is it like I'll do the Drita thing you know as we go through then a lot of times you can describe this as like sort of like an he's a medical person too we're medical people so you can sometimes to describe this as like the allopathic approach where you try to like work against the passions and there I mean on the in the extremes of this there are like meditative visualizations he talks about like sexual desire right and some of these things as you purposely try to like undermine your sexual feelings your romantic Feelings by like looking at the negatives yeah attachment like well you know she looks really good on the outs but inside she's full of all these ugly things and there's Kaka and pee pee inside and you know what you know like that kind of thing you know and like you're purposely trying to undermine this and so he talks about you know in the extremes of it you know that's part of the tradition probably most of us is 21st century people going to do that but it does relate back to this idea of um you know trying to minimize and um and uh you know downplay the emotions downplay the passions as opposed to embracing them and thinking of them is like we talking about the fires of transformation or something like that so anyway he talks about that issue where the tonas might be more of like what he calls like a homeopathic approach where you're kind of treating like with like or something and then a lot of the visual izations are much more um you know intention if we go to really Tantra and we're going to be doing a Buddhist Retreat Tantra Retreat through our little podcast coming up next year just to give it a little hype next year bro it's not even too months it's not even next year it's 2025 we're already in 2025 it's not even months away we're like seven weeks away okay so yeah we're hopping but do this thing ER say's coming up next year woo oh wait a minute oh okay I'm already still in 2024 on some level yeah well you know uh what do I say ignorance is bliss you know 2024 we both talked about it when we did our episodes 24 dicey year dicey year yeah um but in any case you know um you'll do things where you're really the meditation techniques themselves are much more sort of like focused on things that could be you know sexual or erotic imagery right Y and you know you purposely do that you visualize things things that are you know supposed to be Saucy and things that are supposed to be frisky right and you know the goal of that is not to like dampen down the pleasures but to like almost learn how to meditatively work with them and like heighten them up yes right and drive them up right with the idea you kind of enhance the sexual imagery I mean it's was strange for me because I started off doing Zen and all of a sudden you think okay I'm counting my breath and doing this stuff to go to a thing where okay now I'm going to like use this very kind of strong erotic imagery meditatively but it's powerful right and the goal would be then to increase the pleasure increase the Bliss and then learn how to like work with those feelings and sort of transform them he has a Kind of a Funny anecdote that he kind of shares in the book Dr Nita where he's talking about this and you know being angry about something I think he's telling like he missed a plane or something like that he was stuck in the airport and he was angry and frustrated about it and then he kind of took that anger and directed it down like almost to like the pelvis the fires that are kind of there you know in the pelvis where like all the good fire energy is right yeah we're going to work on that a little bit on a retreat too to learn how to ignite those fires right yes that are kind of like the sources of um sexual pleasure but also sources of spiritual transformation yeah your Chinese medical person sometimes we call this kidney Yang or the mingmen fire the lifegate fire so we talked about like kind of directing that energy downward and like using that to like spark more of that fire and you know that's a tantric thing to do to like yeah try to dampen the emotions but okay there's the emotion let me work at it in some way and in this case even trying to use that if you know how to use some of that sexual imagery you can kind of take some of those feelings that might be negative and like flip them yeah right and turn them into things that are much more pleasurable right by doing those inner Transformations so you know part of the whole the whole idea of this right is to you know Embrace these things and look work to like transform us so anyways a little bit on the Tantra and Sutra part of this yeah um I got a couple other things I was thinking about in terms of repression and this kind of stuff you got other stuff you want to talk about first or no that's great yeah so I was you know this is a little bit this was like the first of our little podcast notes that I prepped up after my retreat so usually for me Daniel and I have our Retreat schedules I get little breaks between my semesters so I like to take my Retreats then so I was doing over the holidays and I was really thinking about you know uh my meditations there and and I had sort of a weird experience where I was kind of working through different ways of visualizing the energies in the body and I had a little thing where I I had like a little Epiphany that I was almost Doing It Wrong uh but it was interesting you know I was doing some meditations I started to have some some little Visions right of things I wasn't think like right then I was doing it wrong but I was having little visions and then I you know sometimes you can do on retreat in the Tantra I was opening up the books and studying the meditations that you're supposed to be doing and then something clicked for me I realized like wow I I was visualizing this one way but I could visualize this another way and that was exactly sort of what I was seeing in my little vision so I had a little burst of like uh inspiration during my retreat and it got me really thinking about you know uh this meditation on sexuality and a lot about repression so I also began thinking about repression and you know then I was doing the notes Dr need to talks about this as well um roundabout way to get to it but let me talk about the repression a little bit thing and then I'll try to get back to my meditative experience we'll kind of try to wrap this [...] up sure but you know he gets to the idea of talking about repression and how repression can sort of lead to pathology you know as a medical person and I was thinking about that a lot of my retre treat how repression really can be a source of pathology so that's another question to think about I guess how we think about our emotions and our desires and the Tantra versus non- tantric path well who is that Eric was it Robert Reich is that who has the Willam Reich willham Reich yeah who has the the the that as part of his uh sematic patterning of this uh psychological view of the human being as its means to protect the psych means to protect the psyche as by moving these repressed feelings into the body in certain zones yeah yeah I mean that's definitely like he thinks those two mirror each other right you repress psychologically and your body will mirror that back almost right like two sides of a coin or something but maybe the way you're saying it too that you can push the emotional things in the body so they're stored it's another kind of way of what is it the the book everyone loves now the body keeps score or something like the body keeps a score so when doctors need this thing he talks about this on like an Institutional level if you have a lot of repression within a culture sometimes this will pop out in like pathological ways I think you're right Willam willham Reich is really interested in that too yeah he talks about it in sort of like the religious context where people are repressing their sexuality and you get these terrible abuse scandals oh right um he's not it's interesting because he's not he doesn't give Tibetan culture a pass on that either right because we have those problems too you know it's not just Catholics in the United States or other you know right groups that have these problems says yeah we have those problems too we can get parts that are repress repressive and this can lead to you know you know terrible outcomes right terrible behaviors sexually driven misbehaviors right he kind of links that so I thought well that's bold that he does that right that's cool you know for him to acknowledge that you know and not just point the fingers at others but to point the fingers back and say yeah we have those same problems right yeah and then he talks about in individual cases right that this repression can be a problem yeah and then he has a really funny one that he shares I'll just give it as a little clinical anecdote sure more extreme than the patients we would see but you know he had someone he saw who was a nun you like this one because there's a shamanic aspect to it too so this nun came up to him this Buddhist nun came up to him and said you know I'm I'm possessed can you do a an exorcism for me and like get rid of this evil spirit and like it's it's very Charming the way he talks talks about he says he was very excited about it like cool I get to do an exorcism yay something shamanic for this none awesome yeah that's that's a doctor right can't wait to do my can't wait to do my treatment but then he goes along and he asks the woman well what's the symptoms of this of this possessing Spirit she says well it's terrible you know I get all of these like weird feelings and then you know I my body feels all strange and then I you know I don't know what to do and eventually the only way for me to fix this is I have to like and she's very like and she said I have to masturbate you know and then he went that's not a demon that's just sex and you're having these problems around this you know yeah and um I guess you she didn't really F want to hear that and I think she even talked to her teacher who was very much like an aesthetic person right Dr n do not and the teacher was like oh I have those problems too I think it's a demon and Dr is like no you know and he kind of uses that as a place of talking about what happens when you have like repression yeah that it creates these problems in this case the physical symptoms as doctory people we would probably talk about that as being like semantization right yeah you're repressing the sexual feelings and are coming out in this physical stuff you know and uh you know so those kinds of things which got me thinking about one of our subject matters that we talk about a lot which is questions of repression and I was thinking about that in my retreat too so I I I think you know I wanted to do a little bit on sort of the psychology of this a little bit given a shout out to one of our favorite people people Esther Perell who we talk about a lot yeah right and this whole question of like what does it mean to like repress and then the whole problem if your goal is maybe that kind of thing like Dr n is talking about with this with this nun right with this Buddhist nun you know she's trying to follow this thing but like the desires are being repressed and they're like they're not going to go away they're going to still be there right so the desires will sort of naturally be there and Esther Paralis again kind of a i' call her almost like a neopian yeah who's basically saying like no these things aren't going to go away and you're gonna get kind of neurotic aspects so I think that's something we all have to think about when we think about you know how we're going to like approach our spirituality and like really you know be honest with ourselves about this right you know what's really happening because I think and that's something we talk about a lot but I think you know you're going to have sexual feelings you're going to have uh intellectual attachments to other people you're going to have emotional attachments to other people what are you do with those yeah try to repress them and cut them off if you can maybe you can but sometimes it'll be that repression thing and then that will kind of eat away at you potentially cause problems that are psychologic I or physical and I like I like Drita kind of approaching that directly right yeah you got thoughts on that one I mean we have to it has to be talked about right yeah so and and I guess like if you want to look at it okay so if you're looking at it from the view of a monastic which nobody who's listening to this is but I'll just do that there I'll do that for to to ju appose that to the other piece if you're looking at it from the perspective of a monastic or an incel then your your relationship is with the Divine or from an outside perspective we could say with yourself so you are all that you need in most relationships in today's society they are monogamous I you have one partner that that partner has everything that you should need supposedly right and that that is where you should funnel and and and be fulfilled now as you know Society moves forward and there are more conversations around relationship type right we've had some conversations with our you know friend fedra who will be on again you know Eric has talked about some things in the past you know from himself and from some of his people and in in different kind of relationship communities there's a there's a more not necessarily open appetite for Indulgence but there's an appetite for engagement at a different relationship opportunities you know and so you take that from from that perspective but all of this is to say is that it opens up the conversation around is one enough and and it whether you agree or disagree with is one enough is is actually irrelevant the bigger question that comes out of this or the bigger conversation that comes out of this question is that of outside what we consider outside attachments they happen full stop to everyone and it's not a matter of if it's when and then the next question is to what you're asking into what Dr Nita is then discussing what are you going to do about it so you cannot simply ignore it and I know that you know some maybe more traditional traditionalists might say that's exactly what you do but are you really ignoring it or are you are you repressing it and trying to run from it and so I have enjoyed a lot of uh Esther perel's work because what comes out of these discussions is much larger conceptual conversations around connection and how those things are layered on top of each other and then if you have and you know relating it to a partnership if you have a partner regardless of whatever your relationship type there's usually a home base you know a main partner if you will or just a single partner if you will to be able to have these discussions is actually very healthy because a lot of times we just assume things we just assume that this person is my intellectual equal my sexual equal my emotional equal my physical you know but that's rarely is that the case rarely is that the case and so to not acknowledge it whether you do anything about it and when I say do I mean like pursue or whatever but to not acknowledge it is absolutely repression and I don't think it's per P for me and and there people who might totally disagree I don't think it's healthy to just repress those things I think at a bare minimum they should be aired out and talked about and not shamed and not tabooed because I don't think that that I don't think that that helps the person who is who is doing that shaming or or tabooing to the person who's experiencing him and I don't think it does any service to the person who is experiencing them to repress those things because ultimately they are naturally arising now obviously if you know you're in a monogamous relationship and you're womanizing you have another family and a bunch of Mistresses or misters or whatever probably not ideal ethically for you know your life and those people's lives that's a selfish thing I'm not talking about that I'm just saying the the variety of connections that are available are felt and they are hopefully genuine and th they should all be discussed at a bare minimum discusted not repressed and so I wanted to just go there because we're talking about you know relationships we're talking about sexuality we're talking about connection partnership um and ultimately our own kind of like pleasure and desire States and and this is absolutely in my mind a part of it yeah you know like for me when I was putting together this part I thought about the estr Parell stuff I'm definitely we've done episodes on this in the past before like uses this language of uniqueness versus exclusive ISM so exclusivism is more like the monogamy uniqueness is people who are more open to other types of relationships emotionally or sexually or whatever that might be I think when attachment Theory stuff I have some really cool stuff to share about like charting out how people feel about these things we'll get to it so foreshadowing yeah sneak PR things to come but when I was thinking about this part I'm definitely like an advocate for like the uniqueness thing but I wasn't even thinking about that here I was going to like semi shelf that except to say I think what you're talking about is that if that's gonna happen right I think that's the Estel Parell Point that's the Sigman Freud point before that there's going to be other feelings there's going to be other attractions there's going to be whatever it's going to be well that's Dr neita Point too yeah it's gonna happen you know and it's and one of the things I think I wanted to like say about this is that I've been saying a lot with Chinese medicine too to some students you know our day jobs that's right um you know I I've been like Chinese medicine hates repression yes doesn't like it it will work work against it if you try to repress it will fight you and I think meditation is like that too it does not like repression no you know it'll it'll poke right at those things that awareness will cause you some problems so I think however you handle it I I want to just like acknowledge that piece that was my goal in this too so I think we're on the same page I just want to acknowledge like whatever your philosophy is Will episodes for a different time but but you know at least for here like we're going to have probably lots of feelings for different kinds of people and if you get into the repression part it causes problems right it's gonna cause problems yeah sometimes if you get into the expression part that causes problems too different kinds of problems that's right so like I think the old school if I get to the psychology that people like when do psychology the old school Freud thing was you have to make the unconscious conscious that was his big saying right yes you can't put things in the unconscious they'll stew yeah right yeah now again like we were saying Asian culture Chinese medicine meditation probably won't let you do it doesn't want you to do it but even if you get to the point where you're not thinking about that you know you're GNA have to like come to some probably to deal with this right one way or the other yeah and I think fr's thing was that you would do sublimation that you would direct that into things that would be more productive you would take those things that could be repressed and and eat away at you and you okay I'm aware of them I'm aware that they're there I'm going to choose what I want to do with them you know and some of these things maybe you would sort of transform into creative activity you know uh so maybe I think we did this when we did our defense mechanisms episode like way back some months ago we were talking about the psychological defenses yeah from Freud's daughter but you know maybe you have this and you direct it into your writing Yeah Anna Freud the psych of an yeah those were well all of a sudden you're doing like very erotic writing or you're doing erotic paintings or you put it into your music or you do something with it yeah you know I think if you're doing the tantas then then that goes into your meditation you know and we'll talk about that a little bit I suppose when we do our Retreat as well we definitely will but but you know like how do you take some of those emotions and like direct that into the meditation so you know I still have longing thoughts for my first love Tina know my private moments oh Tina oh Tina I lost you and uh but you take some of those feelings and you learn how to direct it like Dr Nita was saying with his anger you learn how to direct that into some way that's meditative yeah get on like uh Instagram and try to find Tina that's a different move right that's that's the gonna do that that's the external expression you know assuming you're not going to do that and you want to learn how to do that in some way meditatively that's part of the Tantra so you're not repressing them right you know so I think that's an important subject matter right yeah and that was a little bit what I was thinking about during my retreat I was like it was very interesting I again I hadn't done the meditations on like the third eye but I did them you know there's a part of the the um sort of this hric path that I'm trying to follow and it kind of goes in steps the meditations go in like different meditations and different steps that's one of the cool things I think about the tantress is sometimes they have these meditations that kind of build on one another yeah little stages and they kind of interlock and build and so I gotten to the point where I was like I'm going to do the third eye and uh and it was kind of trippy I saw a whole bunch of weird [...] so I was like oh this is cool like obviously there's something happening here I can definitely say that the Mandola that I was visualizing got like uber real it got like super real so that seemed to happen at least for me when it was first popping a little bit it was interesting because I started seeing like little visual things appear before me and one of them was sort of like a tantric couple and it was like sort of they were yellow and they were kind of floating before me and I was like okay what's this about Simpsons I realized it was margin Homer I was this is a big let down deep time meditation just to see some Saucy version of The Simpsons okay no but I it was like no this is like you the different energies had different colors in the Buddhist tantas sure and I was reading from one of the great tantas the Tantra of the secret assembly and they were talking about how you can visualize the sort of the more sexual energies kind in the pelvis you know in the lower jaw we say in Chinese medicine the pelvis the the lower Elixir field you might say in the tantas so I was like yeah I was thinking about that and then I was you know reading the tantric text and they were saying oh yeah you could visualize the energies that are sort of the sexual energies in this yellow color and I went oh I was just seeing that [...] there you go cool I'm gonna do that and it was pretty awesome you know I realized it did change the feeling of this for me and you was powerful it was one of the cooler parts of the retreat and it was a good Retreat so in the uh in the tantas they talk about this thing you know the the energy that controls sort of the pelvis and especially the releasing in the pelvis I call it the downward voiding wind fancy name but the idea is it controls things like urination defecation from a medical point of view fine um if you're doing ecology it would control sort of like the menstrual flow right but also related to sexuality right because energies in the pelvis you know uh you know have a lot to do with like the sexual feelings right ejaculation you know but also just sexual feelings no matter who you are no matter what equipment you got this is related the sexual feeling so it was interesting to me because I was thinking about this I was going yeah these energies are I was really kind of understanding them in a new way and when I got to the medical side with us being medical people I was like you know these energies are really sexual but they also have to do a lot with like what's happening in that part of the body in other ways and I thought how many patients do I have who maybe have like repressed sexual feelings and also had problems with like constipation and like irritable bow syndrome and all these kinds of things and like the the full I mean I've had that thought before obviously but I think really feeling those energies and how they all are kind of connected you know all those energies are kind of entwined together the sexual energies and the energies that relate to like you know the GI tract and symptoms that are digestive or people who have urinary complaints you know I start going yeah this probably is really a thing for so many people and it kind of clicked to me and I thought wow you know a lot of this is probably sexual repression right all the different kinds of feelings like that that are kind of being like smooshed down right and then you know they're going to somaticize out they're going to become physical things in so many ways and we both know from our medical practices how many people come in with GI complaints yeah it's hard to find patients who don't have any right it's not the chief thing you know that they're coming in for you do your whole thorough intake and then the by the end you're going well do you have gi problems and they're they're ubiquitous really right so the the full force of that kind of like really hit me this whole idea of like you know uh in that very immediate way that experiential tantric way you were you were been talking about in these episodes Daniel this is an experiential path right and I went yeah and it also got me thinking about my medical stuff so I thought I would share the story yeah because it's you know it was it was it kind of crystallized for me in this very clear way and and I don't know what totally to do about that from a clinical perspective it's hard to talk with people and say well maybe part of your GI problems is you're oppressing a bunch of emotions especially when it gets to the emotions that are these because they're kind of taboo emotions on some level right and you don't Perell knows that I think Freud knows that these are taboo things for people right and you we okay so we might have a sense that there is a repressed emotion right so we like to use the line um from the Wong Dean aing the yellow Ember book um but you know they say in adults treat the liver yeah yeah yeah and so and and we've talked about you've mentioned this before I've mentioned this before why is because this is the the organ system that is all about free flowing and expressing that's it wants growth it wants movement it wants expression it wants visioning it wants planning forward when that cannot happen and for various reasons um it then repression happens and so for you know Chinese medicine folk this is you know commonplace they call it liveres stagnation IE your the the energy of the forward movement of flow is not it's not flowing okay so in some repress repression States you can have something constipation right like Eric mentioned earlier um but in the se you know in a deeper psycho emotional sense you can say if something wasn't expressed is going to get repressed or stagnant in this way and so so we might have an inclination based on some clinical findings that I won't go into anymore because we're already in Chinese medical Weeds now as it is but it's it's interesting stuff um we might have some inclination that there is a semat a psychological component to it there always is anyways but sometimes it is physical like it's just a blockage somewhere but you know whatever okay so we let's say we assume that there is some psychological component which I'm going to say probably is eight out of 10 people there is some psychological component we could say 10 but I'm going to make make it give plausible deniability it would say eight okay but that doesn't mean that we know what it is that only means that we are aware that like you know there's something here that is probably Beyond just the physical and the physical is hard enough to deal with but there's some psychological thing of course then we can go and ask questions as to where what the feeling is around this what color does it look like what does it smell like what memor is coming up we could do all those things right to kind of um differentiate but the the point that I'm trying to make is that like it is there we're not going to make an assumption about it but that it is there and it it does happen you know and so the question is not necessarily you know uh is it happening but how often and then the next part would be what what to do about it and so you know you kind of talked about sublimation right changing that that those energies and putting it into something different and then on a you know we don't ever really do this but like you know getting some kind of treatment you know even if you're not directly addressing it but some kind of sematic treatment whether that be acupuncture dance therapy massage you know whatever on top of your meditation practice all of which is going towards the same ends which is to help the movement of these things to come up to the surface out to to kind of help release them as a call back to our previous episode recorded oh so long ago you know back to the back to mocha in in the release because that ultimately is where things are going to flow through is an open hand not a closed one I think the thing that really struck me about it because you know we've been doing Chinese medicine for a long time both with our own practices and you know like a lot of times when we talk about the kind of stagnation of energy things you're talking about right yeah think about the liver and then in Chinese medical thought the liver has a lot to do with anger yeah so I've thought a lot about like you know the anger aspects of this and I think for a lot of us as you know Chinese medical doctors for people might be listening what we're educating people too you know who don't know about this you know you can get repressed anger and that can create a lot of GI symptoms too I think the thing that really hit me when I had this little Epiphany in my little vision of this and I started really meditating on the feeling of this and it was interesting because I you know I thought about the the liver energies and its regulation of flow body but it was a little bit of a different way of visualizing it and I was like yeah you know it really brought home the idea of like probably a lot of this stuff isn't just like repressed anger or frustration you know but unfulfilled desires are sometimes mentioned here too with the energy not being able to go and then in this case really unfulfilled desires that are really probably like sexual you know yeah or passionate or whatever that would mean right sure was I just you know I wanted you know to talk about that and maybe this is a little bit where we were had mentioned this idea can we Innovations and how we're trying to present things to people obviously Tantra Daoism you know these are beautiful old traditions right but for us doing it now we're trying to like present it in new ways maybe show other ways bringing things together that maybe hadn't been talked about together and I think I had the exact same thought you know that the she stagnation parts of Chinese medicine and da thought mixed with these sort of tantric ideas you know and I wonder in the end like you know how often it is the case that you know these are the things that are being repressed and they're hard to talk about you know very hard to talk yeah and if they don't yeah if they don't get if they don't get expressed then they it just become it festers and it gets worse and that's an an internal perspective on an external perspective in society things that don't get expressed fester and then they become they become gross you know yeah that's so this is this is what happens and then you get weird you know in the body you can get weird growths or uh weird body functions that are not healthy on society's level you get weird pockets of people who believe weird things because they haven't sublimated their own you know repressed desires or or traumas or or both you know and then you get you know weird stuff that pops up and then it other people latch onto it because they have similar repression and it's not that like their situation was that unique it's that the human you know I don't know we can call it physioc psychology is the same for human beings and because we're all you know so deeply interconnected that we're all going to experience similar things and it's going to get repressed and then it's going to come out in in in a number of ways and they're going to have these you know weird microclimates or weird micro communities you know that share uh similar angers and passions for things you know because they have yet to uh Express themselves and I'm not talking about like you know people who get together and like you know Feed the Homeless I'm I'm talking about you know people who live like an alternative online pres you know have an alternative online presence and have a you know kind of like ulterior motive or are radicalized be kind of toxic or something right yeah yeah it becomes not good because when things get stagnant almost as a principle medical principle things get stagnant that's where the infection is going to happen right yes things get like a community and a society culture that's where those things are going to go toxic right yes yeah so I mean I guess I guess it gets to this you know there's different ways of trying to handle this and this you we get to the end of the episode right how you pull it together I suppose there's different ways of trying to handle this in like a spiritual path kind of a way but to the extent that we're advocating a tantric approach right it's this idea where you have to like not smush those things down right because they can come out in these more toxic forms right and then you know I think part of the maybe the genius of like the spiritual past we're talking about dosm and tantrism and Zen things and all this like okay we're not going to repress these things yeah we're gonna try transform them so they don't sit there and fester right then we'll try to give you tools and techniques to learn how to do this which is essentially part of my retreat too right how do you learn how to meditate on these energies that are kind of powerful right yeah energ powerful right but how do you learn how to do that in a way where they're not repressed but you're also so like handling them in skillful ways you know to help yourself grow as a person right and then you know in ways that you can also be of helped to others yeah anyways kind of the Capper on the thing seems like a good place to stop with this perfect yeah I mean that's like how do you handle attachment right yeah and these energies around it all right cool thanks for sharing Daniel I think it was a this I thought was a like the episodes we've been doing have been important this one I thought was kind of important to me on some level to really to flush this thing out again absolutely yeah yeah well Eric is always gracias Amo uh audience thank you so much for listening for watching for tuning in uh hit us up Jin and Tantra gmail.com like comment subscribe support our work we definitely appreciate it uh we do this for the love of it you know what I'm saying this is our passion so we are not nobody's funding us we don't have advertisers we don't ask for donations we don't do any of those things um you know this is all what we are we are sharing exactly what we would like to share with our friends with our loved ones and with those who find it interesting and maybe even motivational because we find it interesting and motivational to engage in these kind of conversations to keep our studies up to keep ourselves you know honed um because it it is the purpose of Our Lives you know in in in a positive way I could say for myself I can't speak for Eric uh this is my attachment you know and I'm I'm and I'm conscious of it and I'm okay with it you know that is why I came here and that is why I stay here so um and until I feel like my work is is uh is done until I feel like my work is done I will continue to return even to this difficult space you know what I'm saying so into this samsaric path y thisal coil that's right that's right so audience yeah thank you so much for tuning in uh we'll catch you guys in the next one peace h [Music]