[Music] thanks for tuning in to Jin and Tantra spirituality with a Twist you have uh Daniel driving the ship today and uh I'm co-piloted by fedra feder thanks for coming on hi thanks for having me hey uh of course we will be uh you know kind of picking up from where we left off a few weeks ago when Eric and I did uh an episode on attachment Styles uh in relationship specifically but then um coming from your kind of childhood experience and talking about like security and safety spontaneity newness dopamine serotonin you know new relationship energy things like this in in in both monogamous relationships in the polyamory community and you know just in terms of like a a dynamism between people as even in a friendship right so yeah um feder wanted to to to dive deeper into this as it kind of struck her uh deeply last time because you know here's the thing that's that's funny is feder has been uh somebody who's been listening to our work since the very very beginning really every year uh at the end of the year um fedra gets her wrapped the Spotify wrapped and we're always in the top three every every the last few years so yeah so feder's been been rocking with us for a minute and it's it's been really fun to to have you on so uh so thank you that as a lead in fjer oh yeah like comment subscribe subscribe hit that thing foror foror we need it you know what I mean it helps us so uh it's free we don't ask anybody for any money there's no advertisements here we're not selling you dildos or uh you know Meme coins or anything like that but uh could that's true we would make exactly three dollar so anyways F take us away man all right well thanks again for me yes I always love the wraps and I see Jinn and Tantra in there and I'm like yay I'm supporting um anyways uh yeah so the last um obviously all episodes has something that I get out of um but the last episode of your um security and um spontaneity uh struck some because uh you guys kind of started off talking about attachment Styles and um you know you were talking about the dopamine everything you just said and um so I was kind of curious going into the um enm CNM relationship which is consensual non- monogamy ethical non- monogamy polyamory all those things that um the the lifestyle I've chosen for myself at the moment and uh so I was like oh being secure and as I was listening I was like well what what is security actually me you know so I looked it up I just looked up the definition and it was like um being secure is control of environment or um and feeling free from Fear anxiety and threats and I was like all right that's kind of cool like I I feel like that you know is a a basic really great you know idea of that um and so so the fear aspect I heard I was listening to another podcast called polyamory uncensored how could you say and what I said how could you I know I know I'm sorry so I'm ply what can I say oh you're right all right fair enough fair enough fair enough sorry sorry for bringing Society into this I'm present with you when I'm with you okay thank you so much and I'm and I'm happy when to hear about your excursions your compersion is real my compersion is genuine thank you yeah so list to this podcast again I'm sorry so it's polyan censored and it's two doctors there's a a psychotherapist and a um a relationship therapist um and so I'm getting into it because they're just speaking my language right now and one thing he said about fear um you know being free from from from Fear because that's such a big thing about being secure right and insecurities insecurities they rise from these fears you know like you talked about before especially as a child usually and they did an acronym which is false evidence appearing real and I was like whoa that hit me I'm like false evidence appearing real what a a really great way to like Define what fear is because it's like you know these stories we make up in my head you know I'm not going to ask this person out because they're not gonna like me because I'm not good enough because I don't do this because I don't fit into their stand you and then you can keep going on any aspect oh yeah no yeah they're fancy they're too you know like you put them up on a pedestal like a you know you're like oh I'm gonna just move on now they'll never like me anyways let me just just keep going totally and then people that should be together don't ever get together because that other person is like well I'm not gonna ask her out because I'm not this I'm not that and the story keeps going yeah um or fure simultaneously I'm not gonna try this thing yeah oh yeah you know what I'm saying I'm not gonna right like you know I'm not going to go to this place I don't want to try this sexual thing I don't want to go to do this you know because again it's like uh uh I heard a story about it or I have some feeling that is UN based on anything in particular it uh it keeps us limited for sure yeah this person didn't like it this person said this about this and so I'm not going to do it and it's like why like you don't know I mean this person likes this stuff but you're still F like just because they said something doesn't mean that you're necessarily but we start doubting you know and putting that in our head um so yeah so the the security part um and being secure in any relationship whether you're monogamous non- monogamous I think um it's hard regard if is it's one person two people you have a whole orbit of people you're with I mean where does that security start CU everyone's so different and I believe it really starts it starts it's not the whole thing but it really can start you know with ourselves and understanding um who we are at our core and doing we always talk about doing the work you know and working on ourselves and it's not just doing the work we can do all the work you can do all the workbook in your work and all the things but then not apply it and I think that's a big difference um and so I feel like a good starting place and um is something that you people may or not have heard of may or may not have heard of but we talked about last time attachment and I was really pretty um hellbent on saying that attachment was like a negative thing and for the most part I mean I feel like it was but there really is in the four styles of attachment there is a secure attachment style um an anxious and avoidant and a disorganized which is like a mix between the anxious and avoidant can you say a little each of them just to give a little bit of background yeah so secure secure is feeling safe supported um you know you're usually these people are warm and friendly and they they're very communicative and um their childhood these people basically in their child childhood they feel they felt safe seen sued and supported so you know the perfect the perfect mix um these I think say maybe on this on this one that these were children who did not experience the fear that their parents would not return yeah yeah that they that there was a uh they didn't worry about that for whatever reason right does now yeah that could be for numerous reasons right dangerous job or whatever but for even even if someone's parents come back regularly right on a daily Bas they're they still freak out or they go to day camp they can't handle it you know whatever yeah there's that separation anxiety and however that arises um and I I have some friends who their their children are experiencing this right now and there's a lot of stuff going on in the world in the adult world and kids see everything you know they we do like we do as children we see everything we may not comprehend it or understand and it comes out in other ways because we can't communicate that to our parents out of fear or Miss just not understanding um but it comes out in ways like this you know where it like these this attachment so this is where it starts at you know whatever age um so yeah so in with secure during I and I would even and I'm okay I'm not a doctor I don't know these things this is just from my own experience I also wonder if there's a certain age in these formative years you know like from ages you know one to five there's something so maybe age five to seven if that's those are formative so maybe there's a change in our attachment style because something happened during those two years or like 9 to 12 or you know like there's specific times of our of our Evolution or our growth that this is going to impact us more than when we're like eight or something like you know and don't forget feder I would I would be remiss if I didn't bring this into the conversation because I'm I'm always reminded of it because it is who I is we also inherit traits yes and so it it yes there's the age component that's that's important and I think we might even go back further and talk about infancy and response to the child's needs you know there was a big kind of push I don't know when maybe the 60s or 70s Dr Spock you know talking let kids cry it out and yeah this has all been debunked you know it just they don't have the ability to reason so it does it does things to the infant but even going pre- infancy right we inherent Tendencies genetic material that was influenced by epigenetics in previous generations and so I'm it would be impossible for me to accept any argument and not that they're doing this but impossible to accept any argument that doesn't also Al say they might have been born this way and then their reality that they experienced made it worse you know because of uh previous parent died the father died in you know at a young age or of famine or you know who knows because the world was in it's still it's in a dark time but even in comparison there were times where you know famine and and illness were ra ravaged areas like crazy so um so yeah anyway yeah no I and I totally believe that because I think on on scales of everything I mean you we as humans have pieces of Our Generations from you know what happened to our mothers to our grandmothers and grandparents I mean there's so much genetic material that we're carrying and passing on whether it be fears and like anxi like certain name on any of them and so I yeah I think that this would definitely be coded in there somewhere as well so that's fair um so yeah so secure um when it comes to secure attachment Styles there's someone and I think Eric said on your podcast that it's been said that there's like 50% of people that take tests are in a secure to have a secure attachment style I did take the attachment test and I do come up secure but as I was taking it I was also looking at my former self answers and was like oh this is what I would have answered last year and it's completely different 100% different so I was like I've grown a little so yeah for fact and secure doesn't NE secure doesn't mean monogamous let's be right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but within the relationships yeah no that's a good point but within the relationships that I have I show up you know in a he in a healthier manner I mean I'm sure there's still things that aren't but um so moving on there's now there's anxious so if you're an anxious attachment person and I've actually heard some of my friends use this um to describe themselves um it's clingy anxious they crave intimacy and love and it's very hard for them to be single so this might be the person that's like if you're monogamous you're like a Serial monogamous so it's like one relationship whatever which I've seen myself you know be in the past um and then this as a child would say that they had inconsistent caregivers so this could be parents this could be whoever they grew up with like the love or the attention from those caregivers were is inconsistent yeah so I could see that like you were saying before you know you don't know where it's coming from when it's coming um so you're always like searching so you're just like let me get it fast because I don't know what's gonna come back yeah um sounds like a lot of men I ain't saying nothing I you you can say that um uh avoidance is the third so emotionally distant reluctant to depend so like I can do everything on my own I don't need you for anything don't open my car door for me don't open the door to the restaurant don't pay my bill no always pay my bill but don't do anything else um so this was a lack from CH childhood a lack of emotional support or connection you know and we can say there's like a latch key you know off latch key kids um I don't think that was a lack of emotional support that was us just taking care of ourselves but some may have seen that as lack you know yeah um and then there's the disorganized which is actually a mix of the anxious avoidant um and so they may not have very coherent social behavior um and this shows up a lot in uh in adults who are uh children consequence of trauma and abuse okay so respons yeah yes exactly and God I I don't I I mean I can't really I can't really like say that there's many there's there's a whole lot of us that probably fit this category of disorganized until we do the work right um so yeah so those are the four attachment Styles and I think this is really a great place to start with oneself um to work on security because you know what's that old saying is like you know you can't change you you can't like no I can't think of it but you can't spots on a leopard no but it's totally relevant like you can't you can't change like someone else's reaction you can only change you know your your your perception um so maybe starting when it comes to security is just like starting there um so I think those are good those are good things so and there's always there's so many tests on Google and don't pay for them because there's so many free ones so if you go on there and you Google a test don't pay for them um so yeah so what do you have like so now we went through that um anything you want to go ahead and add no no other than the fact that like this whole I have a meta thought here for a moment okay I we're recording this right now live okay then somebody else is going to and multiple somebodies are going to watch the video they're going to see the clips they're going to see whatever right posted on on YouTube on Spotify on our Instagram pages on wherever else they might get their podcast or or they they know us they see us right and so we are sharing things that are interesting to us and so we dive in and learn a little bit more and then we're sharing that with other people who find this interesting and then they'll probably have conversations with this around somebody else and that might find it interesting and it might go one more layer right that they might share something that they tie a conversation about with a friend who heard something when they were listening to a podcast so just the understanding of the ripple effect of this you know never ceases to amaze me that there's probably three or four layers of effect that that um that everybody who does this kind of thing has you know what I'm saying and it's just a matter of finding similar nodes uh in The Ether of things that you're interested in to keep you engaged in your own internal work uh so that you could find yourself in a a secure place in whatever kind of attachment style you're looking to to have so that's how you Loop it back just like that yeah that was so sweet that was lovely thanks Danielle you say nice things so many times thank you okay so that's that's the attachment Styles yeah um so I guess um from from there kind of going back in my my notes um I think when we if we go back to I mean I guess in any so enm security is a is is like a a huge concept because it's it's like um we could just say relationships in general I would say relationships in general yeah I mean everyone you don't want to be with someone for the most part unless it's your Kink you don't want to be with someone you're not feeling secure with um I don't know if that's a kink but maybe I just made one up uh but but I think that um it you know when we're talking about monogamous or non- monogamous that's like a first thing like do I feel safe secure and free of fear with this person um or people and it fluxes I think because there's moments when you know you're showing up for a person and yes I feel safe and secure in these moments and then all of a sudden you know we like something happens conversation and like a experience happens between the two or three or four of you and all of a sudden it's gone so then what do we do you know do we Okay this is wrong and I'm out or usually do we is there blame you know do we blame shame and guilt the other person and say you did something you have to change um or is it you know is there do we have a responsibility Within ourselves to also take a step back and be like okay what just happened you know how like what was my like take yourself out of that experience for a second to really look at it and take a breather in a step um to feel secure in like yourself and your own thoughts in person so that you can show up for your partner or Partners in that moment yeah um so yeah I think that that's I mean that's where I come from like my my mode of thinking right now yeah well a couple things one you know security is important especially and I you know I can't I'm just going to give you my assumption that like as a straight dude dealing with you know women's security is basically a necessity for sexuality right or sensuality we could say that's so that's a necessity and when then okay so that's that's that or we could call it in let's say let's say intimacy okay so we get into the relationship part not just the sexual portion so security is a necessity for intimacy all right so now that now that we're entering entering into the relationship so it could be emotional intimacy could be physical intimacy but you have to feel safe and without fear right in order for you to be able to let go and and let this person you know do whatever the things that you guys want to do to each other but when that is damaged for whatever reason right whether that damaged be for uh lying infidelity uh weird thought um mistake genuine mistake or intentional right that that I believe at that moment then you can directly link that back to the attachment Styles I believe that the secure attachment person will look at the situation and either do the internal work to say this is on me or say this person made a mistake and now I'm going to go through things of forgiving them the kind of like what were the other two anxious and anxious and avoidant and then uh disorganized which is like a mix between the two yeah so the anxious person is going to do what you were saying which is like uh uh you know back and forth kind of like not so sure right yeah red flag red flag yeah and then the avoidant person yeah they're going to cut and run and that's how these attachment Styles wear their heads all the time in different people's relationships again monogamous not monog not monogamous it's always a pair even if there's more than one pair when you're dealing you know emotionally with this kind of thing that's it and it becomes very difficult when you have people who have uh anxious personalities and avoidant or you know attachment Styles together and you on the weird part is you only know when the tensions are high and you're not really paying attention you're just reacting in that phase then you know who you are maybe the other person definitely does know exactly who you are especially after like two two good fights then you can see y you may never know un if someone doesn't tell you right you just be like you know what I just want to keep the peace I'm gonna go to the other room well you realize you're avoiding didn't right you know you have no idea what that is but that's this is it's a very common thing so these are common these are super super common yeah yeah yeah I agree and just thinking I mean I know that what I'm kind of like as I'm listening to you I'm just going back I'm just doing like one of those montages in my head from like a movie where I'm just going back to all these different years of like my avoided stages and my anxious stages and to very you know recently until I started you know just really diving deep into the last couple years of this um that's one thing that &m has really helped me because uh for you know for for to go against stereotypes uhm is not just all about like the sexy times this has been like all about self-discovery like and so much conversation so much like sharing and it's so beautiful and wonderful um and hard but um God hard but like lovely hard like so worth it you know like it's it's worth it because I'm showing up better for myself and I think just even in my my vanilla life you know um so yeah so like going back and just thinking about all these ways that I've showed up and like God I wish I would have I wish I would have said this better I wish I would have asked these questions or I wish I would have you know shown up for for him better this way or um you know and it's like and I don't regret anything but I it's like we can go back and just really think about our own grow and I think it's amazing yeah um so yeah um so I guess like next how um security can show up in relationships period is like um in one ways is this is you know something I I was thinking about spec not specific to enm but specific to I think just relationships and I think this is while I might be speaking to my experiences now but um I think about this even in you know when before this in other relationships and like there is a like comparing you know so um I think comparing in the enm CNM world would be you know comparing uh yourself or myself to metamor and metamor is a term I don't think we went over this but metamor uh what what I mean by metamor is that I have three Partners or whatever number it is even like two partners they're each other's metamor so they're not well they could be dating each other but they're not they don't really have much to do with each other but they're both seeing me so they're each other's metamor so and I anyone that one of my partners is dating that's my metamor and so I love that term it sounds like very like yeah I was say there's definitely a slang for this I know I I like it um so there's um one of the the the the concepts that comes up with that is like this comparing right which I also can put in the realm of jealousy being with a in monogamy with men and women who have friends right yeah and as a female like oh well you have this this this female friend that you've had way before we even got together but all of a sudden I'm going to become like a comparing myself to this woman and oh yeah you know um which I think happens a lot it happens a lot people say no no no friends of the opposite sex none yeah which is oh so dangerous um anyways we're not talking about well we kind of are but and so I think that the comparing um is a really big sign of like there's going to always be a lack of security if and this is kind of us starting with ourselves right like something to look at um before we just jump to conclusions that it's always the other person that's not creating a secure boundary CU or security um because it's like okay well I'll I'd be secure honey if you would just not have any more friends like oh we're getting married well you can't have any more female friends what like that's not that's my problem that's not like my partner's problem and then in the enm world me comparing myself to metamor is like okay well he has or she has you know all these other people and like oh well they have a PhD and like own like a horse ranch somewhere and like you know like this person has a mansion somewhere and this person has this sweet you know place downtown all of a sudden I'm just like making myself smaller and smaller this has nothing to do with my person right this is all me like having these false beliefs and this lack of confidence in myself yeah so that's somewhere to start too and then when friendships when it comes to monogamy I mean maybe your partner there's a reason why but if you're you're using that reason because something happened then once again that's maybe something that is way past them having friends and there's something else there yeah um but I think that comparing mechanism is just really like harmful and just something to look at just something to question in oneself like are we comparing those are the seeds of jealousy right that's that's what that is and and in my you know in my in my mind and my experience you know jealousy is something that wants to create bound you know wants to create more bound it's attempting to make itself feel safe right oh yeah it's a protective mechanism so it you know you're doing this thing because so stop doing you know I'm going to make sure you don't do that thing but ultimately there is it's insatiable in it's an insatiable thing it's a desire for something that is inherently un unattainable you know this idea of complete safety it's you know because then then the question is like okay what you thinking about right yeah you know what I'm saying like it it it it moves somebody to a smaller and smaller Island that they can exist that is UN that is uh un Untouched by their partner unchartered territory by but the partner doesn't want that kind of doesn't want that kind of a thing and so it becomes a very kind of toxic situation that can often lead to you know other other aspects but having conversations like this brings up really good opportunities to discuss what is our relationship you know and what is and is not uh acceptable tolerable and why so that you have these conversations so that that is not you know that is not a thing like I I was reading again one of those Esther Parell books and she was encouraging some couples to use fantasy while they were oh having sex with each other but like if you if you didn't hear that from a therapist I don't know I I don't have these so I mean I don't have so many conversations like now I'm having more of them now but I never had these kind of conversations with the friend like oh you've been with your partner for X number of years who are you thinking about when you're doing it I've never done I've I've never done that and the only had yeah the only times that like my I would have thought about it not in the moment but later I would always ask myself oh is that does that feel wrong is that wrong am I wrong for doing that you know what I'm saying because what if that person you know is are they doing it who are you know what I'm saying so yeah it becomes it just like the point is that like these conversations are very they have an opportunity to bring you much much closer with your partner so long as that you can actually be vulnerable and hold space for them while they're being vulnerable too so not judge and not blame and not shame them for their thing you know what I'm saying yeah yeah well I I 100% agree with that on the same trajectory there um I had a conversation with a girlfriend of mine and you know in a sexual sense she was talking about she's monogamous she's been married for years and we were out one day and I always bring up the conversations that no one has with their friends because I love to talk about everything and I think I I make I allow safety in conversations yeah and so she was bringing up like her sex life with her husband and that she wanted to have you know use a toy and he was like but why like and it made him feel very insecure yeah and he had a huge problem with it and I was like but doesn't he want you to like be like pleasured and have you like go through all this and it's like it's still him in there you know like but it's such a like he's still doing the work yeah it's just an added thing because our bodies as a woman a lot of times we don't you know like we can get into all that but it's it's just an added like fun thing and I was like well that's something an aspect that you guys really should talk about and not just and she's like no it's like that and she was like avoiding it and I'm like but you guys first of all you're married what are you scared of like he's not going to like want a divorce because you're talking about you know the toy thing but like this is an opportunity to really like enhance and bring that out and yeah um and I and I think it's it was a wonderful and I was so happy that she shared that and she's like okay she was like like listening she's like you know you're right like I'm like it is your body and you you deserve pleasure and however he wants to be pleased like then you can ask him well is there anything you want more you know and I'm like use this don't just like yeah put your hands up in the air like that happens I think so much it's like we just are like well [...] it we're not going to want it he doesn't want it she doesn't want it so we're just not going to discuss it and yeah this is gonna suck it's not going to work out well I mean it really not I mean the other thing is that when you're you know when you're married with somebody like that like they are your partner for everything so yes they're your dance partner for sure so if you want to learn how to do something new you got to they got to go along with you you want salsa you got to take that you know that that person to salsa if you got some Kinks that you are interested in in acting out you got they got to be into it you know like they have to get get along with this so get the bowl put on these cat ears and this and shave your body down you know unicorn mask yeah get this thing going you know and start pooping in a litter box you know so you know that's just that's what you signed up for death to his part brother wow whoa there's a whole lot of stuff there that was great that was awesome yeah maybe that'll be an episode we'll just start talking about that um fun stuff but yeah so I think the the comparing um that's like one big thing in being safe and along with comparing you know we talk about competing and so first off we're we have these comparing creates these false beliefs about ourselves and where we stand in our relationship whether be monogamous or non- monogamous now we deal with competing in not in in monogamy competing could be I mean anything I mean we think about just us as humans some of us are really competitive people and we end up becoming we end up getting in a relationship with someone who's a go-getter a business an entrepreneur and while we always are like babe I got you I always want to be supportive like okay he's doing better and then she's doing and then there's this like there's a competition between that or like maybe she has more friends and goes out with her friend so now he's like w or she and she whatever you know the relationship is um one partner is like goes out with friends a lot the other one's like well that's not fair I don't feel secure anymore so I I'm going to go and then it becomes this competition which is definitely not a secure thing to have this competition um but once again that's are those are now on our own anxiety our avoidance um you know a mixture of the both and then our own you know false beliefs uh in the non- monogamous world uh not only can that come with our partner but once again we talk about metamor and competing with you know like I said well she has this and he has that and and so now it's this competition on W where we're supposed to be in this compersion mindset um well you know is is she telling her more than she's telling me or she telling him you know and now we're just com we're we're competing on like well I got to be better and I got to be the best and I got to do this and it's like man chill like just be you because your partner's with you because they love you and they like you or whatever your Dynamic is or that you know you're just really good at some fun things who knows special skills but yes special skills special skill set this is where the discussion and the communication comes in too you know um but I think that competition while there can always be a healthy bit of competition when you start doubting who you are and you don't feel safe and secure anymore it's kind of a big problem yeah the compete the competition part if it drives you to be a better whatever then it's good you know yeah that that that's a positive aspect but if it drives you to you know again it move it moves almost backwards into the um the comp the comparison thing you know if it makes you feel unsecure then you have to really find out why that's the case yeah you know so and again but again being able to have these discussions with people if you can do it you can allow yourself to be seen and then this can be a good thing so if you're finding out that you know you're jealous of your partner's friend well why and you could figure out why that is the case and express it well then that is an opportunity for then you guys to bond over that particular thing I mean if you're going to do the monogamy thing I mean any kind of Rel it doesn't really matter if you're going to be in a relationship do do it well why not do it well I mean I I've have always you know I'm not always I have found that the uh the deeper your connection with somebody especially if it's a longer term thing again monogamous not monogamous doesn't matter you know we're going to talk about this probably in a second here but like it in order to when you're when are you most excited in the beginning of the relationship right and what what did you call this NRE yeah new relationship Energy new relationship energy so in the beginning you're excited everything is new the person is a mystery it's always a surprise you know you're getting these little dopamine pops all the time oh they like that too oh my God I love that you we had such a wonderful time oh man we had oh my God it was so great you know and so I get a message from them I get a have a conversation with them you're excited because you don't know what they're gonna say until you get to learn them and then you learn them a little bit more than you like them and then oh now we like each other now so it's good eventually you get used to them it's not that you don't like them less it's just you get used to them and so that that new relationship energy that NRE and time are oh yeah yeah inversely related really y um and so this is when people get used to they become complacent is is basically what happens was like the seven-year itch right in relationships it's like like three years seven years like every or something like that it's you know it's said that y That's they were together seven years that's kind of like the the thing yeah um and so the the the onus then on on whichever whatever the dynamic is is to regularly touch that state right is to there two parts it's to regularly touch that state and then literally is to regular be regularly be touching because that that is that that moves you from that kind of like dopamine uh burst thing over into the serotonin part over into the oxytocin part because they become uh an extension of your nervous system essentially and can be that regulating factor that makes the the Comfort feel really good but Comfort only you know makes you lazy yeah new energy only is not secure which is partly why it's so exciting exciting you have this like this dichotomous B balance on the scale of like safety Comfort laziness yeah and then excitement newness spontaneity fear yeah and so where where is it where is this where does this balance happen because the longer that you stay with somebody the more that you move over to the other side side not possible not po if you're relationship is good you should be moving to that side and so you know um yeah we talked about this before but but it is it's such a real thing it really so so that I guess then answers that idea crazy hair that answers that idea of like the spontaneity right yes is like just those little boom boom those little those little things um where it's a surprise and I love surprises surprises are my favorite um and I agree uh I think that that's it's so lovely to feel that security in that long time yeah um but that newness that like sitting on your bed like a teenager like with your little your feet going back and forth like texting you know I mean I do that um still oh my God what did George have to say um but it's um it's cute and it feels good and yeah like you're saying like you you and Eric were talking about that dopamine response it's like God dopamine is the best like drug ever Jesus bottle it up they probably do I might I'm just kidding you probably take dopamine pills um or shots whatever but um yeah so the the the little the little aspects in in in in monogamy I mean I can speak from experience like I was always making new friends you know always was allowed that freedom of like having friends and being like Oh or female whatever they were and that that really triggered my dopamine because it was just like oh regardless of you know what it was it was always like I just always like meeting people and then like hanging out whatever now in in this this part of my life where I've chosen to be solop poly like I can see why so many people why they would choose um you know couples choosing to open up their marriage because that little bit even if it's just like a one-time thing and they're not looking for um something that's consistent right that one time thing was fun it was exciting this person wanted us we wanted them y Yad y um being able to what I am finding is that like you know time management is a real thing but um it's it's it's lovely to find people I'm really enjoying my partners right now and getting to know them and because we're only we you know we have days and times that we'll see each other um and we talk on the phone or text all the time um but it's always like what's going on and I'm really good I'm really good at scheduling and like compartmentalizing that but it always just feels good and special you know um I've not I've not been seeing these people you know a couple of them a long time one a very long time but even that longtime relationship is so much more like fun and spontaneous it's like it is it's everything spontaneous like there's there's no lack because um you know getting to know each other we have serious conversations and serious things that happen because this isn't just about the fun this is also getting to know someone loving someone having them a part of your life and um and I'm it's not secure right um but we're growing to make like I have a partner and then we're growing to make that secure you know and I have I do have Security in it's not yet yes if you're talking about timeline yes it's not secure yet because it's only been so long however the steps in how I navigate these relationships and how I ask questions and how I get to know someone I move quickly through that because it's like yeah this is all great let me find out all this stuff because I know I realized that the dopamine is great I love those drops but keep on doing that but now I need to know like the nitty-gritty all the things so it's it's a weird I don't think weird but it's just I'm I'm I'm realizing that in us talking right now I'm like geez like I move kind of quickly because I think all that's important and as much as I love the dopamine like that serotonin aspect of it is also real nice because I like to just chill and like know where I stand you know well there's that that part of the ogous relationship has to be tended to so even if you're with these people you know once you move past the whatever year year and a half whatever it is everybody's a little different you know uh you have to do the work that keeps that person fresh there has to be some space between you and the other person right Y and Y you know we we say spontaneity but really you're doing a lot of planning you're doing a lot of planning and so you set the time and you set your intention to spend time with this person and then what arises arises right but you have set that spark youve set the opportunity for the spark to occur in in a you know more traditional monogomous relationship as you move over to the security side you are far less motivated to do the to do the things that you once did in order to continue that ball right and I forgot where it was maybe maybe it was in a Esther Perell I forgot which book but um it takes or maybe she pulled it from somewhere but it takes two people to tend the flame of Aros yeah and and I was like that is on the money because it is very true it takes it's a 50% it's a 50% job of for each person and people always love to blame the other person they love to do that that is like you know completely it's it's avoidant but it's probably the most common one in in the for sure in this Arena because no one not not no one few people are going to be like yeah I ruined it I ruined it I I I ruined it I know sorry I fart in bed you know like right you know what I'm saying like No One's Gonna yes I do 100 per. people are not gonna do this and and partly is because they're not doing it intentionally so it's it it's you're hesitant to take uh responsibility for something that was not great A and B likely it was done unintentionally you know what I'm saying but the other the other half of this okay if you're not taking responsibility because you don't believe you have intentionality behind it which I believe is most people I don't think people be in a long-term relationship and be like Oh our sex life sucks that's exactly what I want I love terrible sex or not at all that sounds amazing amazing like no but then the the problem is is is that it doesn't really get discussed where where it's it's like you know where are people learning it where who's teaching them you're not getting it in school you're definitely not getting it from your parents I mean maybe if you have a very uh uh strong partnership that you're a child of that has very strong PDA you'll see this but there are plenty couples that don't do a bunch of PDA and are really great you know so that's personal preference and cultural also cultures do not you know if you're from a different culture they do not do that that is no no you know what I'm saying so you may not be be you know uh it may not be introduced to you so then where do you find it often times through failure yeah like you were saying if I would have known then what I know now things would be you know again we can't go back yeah to our conversation earlier yeah you know what I'm saying you know what I'm talking about I do you cannot go back and so now that you learn these things you get to apply it moving forward and that is like it's a gift but only if you see it as a gift if you're secure and you can go all right I'm I'm G to take on what I could take on for me and then I can own own some responsibility and then give away to one the stuff that I cannot then you could find yourself in a better place moving forward but otherwise it's very very difficult to learn it's very difficult to learn and I'm and I'm speaking I'm I'm speaking 100% for real understanding that there are people who know me who know my life who are listening to this I didn't know I mean I I I genuinely mean that I didn't know and I highly doubt that I am the only one I highly doubt it you know what I'm saying and so it's just so I'm so we share this here and and if you've gotten this far in the podcast you know congratulations your attention span is within the top 5% of all human beings uh but this is some real [...] like if if you have something that you value right and I'm talking about relationship again poly or monogamous you have to put the work in to keep those Sparks going yeah you know it goes without saying but it's not even about it's not even for the other person it's for yourself yeah it's for yourself so yeah it's simple and it's something that oh yeah I'm sure we all think about but until you actually go through and make it a pattern and then and then do it yourself like trying new things trying new restaurants trying you know whatever putting on weird clothes you know you know what I'm saying um I do I do then it becomes it becomes difficult it becomes difficult to have it only as an a relationship experience I think it kind of has to penetrate your life in general so that your mindset of taking on newness and and creating the opportunity for spontaneity to arise because if you're eating at the same places all the time and you're seeing each other in the same clothes all the time and you're going to the same you know whatever taking the same time it becomes routine and yeah you know sometimes routine is great because you know you find time to be spontaneous like a nuner you know on a Tuesday which n on a Tuesday right Afternoon Delight right but then if but if you're not in that not that spontaneous you know erotic State on a regular basis Tuesday at noon is always going to be 1 minute before 12:01 and that has no value to to anybody else you know what I mean so yeah that's my um I and that's and that's really cute because it's like when does that then become now it's expected okay well we're doing this spontaneous thing every Tuesday at noon so now it's just like an integral part of your yeah pattern your like schedule and get it we're we as humans are so busy we have kids we have things like but there's always something that can be done and and and whatever that is talk about it I mean I've not always been the best Communicator I've tried but I just you know was a very emotional communicator and also avoided a lot of communication so um yeah I think I wish I would have like communicated a little bit better um whatever moving forward though I don't yeah I know that I do now yeah and so I can relate and I can put that into my relationships moving forward and I have and it feels really good because I do feel secure with myself you know and then the relationships are reflecting the security I have for myself because I'm able to be open and honest and feel seen and feel heard and when I'm not not it's a fullbody know right if I'm not feeling safe with someone I'm not waiting for potential anymore you know and I've said that before like it's just you don't like maybe maybe one chance like let me tell you this and then depending on like how it how it goes but I don't have time to like wait to see it's like no I I mean we have the discussion if you can talk to me like a grown human being and we can talk about it and get through it that's amazing if you're showing me that you're still dealing with your childhood traumas through the way that you respond to me I'm good right my you know I think two things my one of my uh friends uh they have sexy he says well I said what do you got this weekend he goes well you know what it is it's sexy Saturday whether she needs it or not [...] love that I love that that that's whether she needs it or not I love it that's amazing good for them see that's too that's great yeah yeah so it takes it takes this kind of it takes that kind of thing so uh anyways I know we're be wrapping up here feder if there's anything else you want yeah no I think today was like really we got through all the things that I you know that we discussed and I think it was pretty pretty thorough so I'm happy with it awesome well thanks for uh thanks for being the driver to today you know I appreciate it and thanks for giving me the gloves yeah of course and you know thanks for tuning in uh you know give this hit the Subscribe subscribe thing if you're not share our work if you find it interesting uh you know send us a message on the you know leave a comment in the YouTube video or hit us up at the Jin and Tantra podcast or uh for something a little bit more uh with depth you could certainly email us at ginand Tantra gmail.com we appreciate everybody tuning in man this is definitely a labor of love so uh please share the love for fedra this is Daniel we'll catch you guys in the next one peace [Music]