Kind: captions Language: en at LG Interiors those of us who like our spirituality with a Twist so we're back at it um we had started this series that was really kind of an honor and recognition of the loss of someone in our gen and Tantra Community um who had his uh loved one pass away and so we wanted to do the series of episodes as kind of a shout out and recognition of that and as the fates would have it over the course of the summer I also find myself in this situation where I had a close family member who passed away too so it ended up being kind of hitting close to home for me as well so we were in the midst of finishing up this series we were really talking about the Tibetan Book of the Dead The misnamed Book of the Dead the book of the Bardo the book of the in between which talks about like the what happens with you know the end of life and so we were doing a little series on that um uh we got a little sidetracked because uh you know I had the actual loss in my family but we're getting back to what we want to finish it up uh but before we do that we have a special announcement for from uh you know I'm one of our g t people one Daniel to talk about what he has coming up so uh we wanted to talk about that first before we did anything of the Gory details of the episode about death uh okay thanks Daniel so passing it over to you yeah so uh for people who are interested uh I'm going to be uh or at least me and my fiance will be leading a retreat in uh in Mexico about maybe two hour hour and a half south of Tulum and our friends uh retreat center and that that person was uh Remy delun who we had on uh maybe about two months ago on the podcast uh him and I did an interview together so uh I will leave the description to our we travel page in the description of this podcast for people who are interested but uh briefly it's at the end of January it's about a week long like Saturday to Saturday so January 28th to February 4th uh we'll be doing two medicine ceremonies and then we'll check out the land do some hiking go to some ruins uh stay at a really nice um it's not like a high class resort but it's really deep in the jungle you know you're definitely away from society and if you're from the Midwest who doesn't want to go down to Mexico in the middle of the winter time you know get away get some get some Retreat get some r r uh and do some healing and do some work and it's funny actually like the translation of Ayahuasca and should people tradition actually means Vine of the dead so uh it kind of you know it can kind of fit because a lot of people think it was semantically into the uh into the episode yeah and that's what's most important Eric is can we get it to thematically fit um how can we strangle these episodes to seem like they're connected that's right that's right yeah so uh so I'll leave the link in the description for people who are interested and uh and if you're interested in seeing Remy uh obviously I've been on this thing for well we've been on this thing for now two two plus years um but the the interview with Remy is definitely worthwhile checking out if you haven't yet and if you're interested in him then um yeah we have episodes too about your experiences you know uh doing your shamanic uh experiences down in Peru right yeah yeah so we have kind of maybe a little whole series of people want to learn yeah more about that that way too yeah yeah I kind of like don't do a ton of that because it's kind of like I won't say it's saturated but there's so many people who now fortunately have been able to experience it that share their experience you know in the I don't know the Lexicon of podcasting that uh I don't necessarily need to divulge everything because it's it's kind of out there you know and I'm giving some and people will have their own if they're interested you know well I kind of get like um uh all right so this is you and me we're always personal on these things so I always sort of figure like when you're ready to talk about something you'll talk about it yeah we talk about stuff that doesn't make it into this podcast this is true um and uh and so I always sort of figured like you know whatever experiences you want to share when you're ready to share them if you want to you'll do yeah that's right there's always a subtle pressure in this oh always a subtle question yeah between us talk about this [...] talk about that [...] but okay uh all right so okay that's it should be a great event right I know you did another one of these recently we've done yeah and it should be this should be an ongoing thing where you'd be offering this thing to people periodically and I think that's [...] fantastic yeah it's like I mean right it can definitely be life-changing and the timing for people is always so perfect it's just it's magic I mean it really is Magic it's just such a beautiful experience for people who've never been able to sit in a ceremonial setting and do healing in a group Community because that's traditionally how it was done you know um it's it's it's something worth doing in your lifetime I can say for sure yeah we have our way way back in the day we did one of our one of my favorite little episodes where we talked about our psychedelic experiences too yeah like way way back in the day yeah yeah and uh life's changing yeah yeah who knows where that yeah that door opens and then they'll go all kinds of places you don't know where it's going to take you after that and you get that crack in the door and I think the other interesting part is on the track and the Journey Begins and the journey really begins like when you decide to go like you don't even have to wait there's people who are already making deep changes to their life just getting in preparation getting rid of you know wine addiction or marijuana or what you know whatever abuse something like this um so it's cool man it's cool to be a part of it you know it's like you know what we're doing in this podcast but just like really condensed because we do this in real life I mean you know you're a practitioner I'm a practitioner so we're doing this is this is the life this is not uh you know I think like yo back in the day when we first started like getting to know one another that was one of the things that bonded us together we both wanted to be somehow trying to do this helping to reach out with people who would be interested in these things trying to become uh help to people because I mean that's been the goal the whole time so yeah all right very cool sweet uh so back to death um so uh we were talking about this this idea of what happens sort of like in the Tibetan Book of the Dead or the Bardo when uh spirit separates from the body and there's a you know a long conversation about how that works and we kind of started it last time and we had to we reached a certain critical point in the discussion and that was time to take a break yeah and come back so we really had kind of like talked about this idea the Aggregates that make up a person so it seemed to be like briefly just talking about that because it's one of the it takes a little bit to grow on you I think is an idea but once the idea grows on you it really kind of it can it's it's pretty profound right yeah when it finally hits you and Eric that for for people who didn't hear that first episode that episode is called the separation of Yin and Yang which I'll title this separation of Yin and young part two but you know just to be able to go back and give people and we we kind of talked about the the the disillusions of the body and the mind during the transition process more towards the end of the episode yeah or the latter half so we'll you know just to give people some references to where we were before so it's kind of like this idea of these Aggregates and I did I remember first reading about them in undergrad or something like that and like not kind of knowing what to think about that exactly but it's kind of like an observation about all the different components that make up a person or make up a living thing and you know we're a very materialistic world now I think it's probably fair to say that not even just our society but the world is materialistic and so you tend to think of yourself as being like just your physical body and you can bake your physical you can break your physical body up into all kind of components too but now they go beyond that so they have like the form part of the person when you do it connected to the elements you make this part of the Earth element and so that starts to to go you know even when my uncle was you know going through you know his experiences now he was diagnosed with dementia but he had moment's placidity and there are times that he'd be saying like oh my body's just falling apart this thing is falling apart it's not holding up anymore and it's like yeah you could think like yeah that's the form aspect of the person right and eventually you know when any of us go that's it's been eventually like fall apart so he was kind of going through that experience right um and then the other part that happens after that though once you get past the physical aspect of the person and again this is just brief on this well we talked about this thing called the feeling aggregate or the feeling aspect of the person so you're talking about the emotions of the person and I think Buddhism does a really interesting thing you get a lot of divisions of how you can think about how the emotions can be kind of like organized right groups of emotions you know we come from the Chinese medical world they have a way of talking about these seven major emotions but in this way of talking they do this really interesting thing where they just break it up into three big groups and then like smaller things underneath and it's kind of the idea that you either feel drawn to things so positive emotions you feel repelled by things negative emotions sometimes I'll say aversion or like neutrality you're kind of indifferent to things and it's a really interesting it's a really interesting way to think about that I don't know that's been very helpful to me Daniel I find myself and I'm trying to explain things to people I sometimes go like well listen you know there's three ways you can feel about something correct you know and if you really think about that this is how it is or there's three ways that things can impact people positively negatively or kind of like neutrally you know it's like that's really handy it's handy I will say though in and maybe just because I'm so used to doing the kind of like Chinese medicine Taoist kind of view of things people when you break down the the emotions and the elements in the in the Taoist view it really does people get it like you don't have to you know like it doesn't require a whole lot of like history I guess I could you know yeah you don't need a big backstory to understand someone says you have sadness and grief fear and fright anger you know worry and rumination and uh happiness right enjoy you break it down to people be like oh yeah that probably covers a big range of it right and you just kind of can go underneath that so that's kind of the typical way you do this like yeah I'm trying to use thought I think the one that goes here is you just break it down into these three different groups and then it gives you this chance to go like okay how do I feel about this thing am I neutral am I this way or that way and sometimes you can even go through the course of your day and you'll be like well am I kind of happy am I kind of like or am I kind of like right yeah sometimes you're just like you know and actually it's funny because a lot of times you're just like you know you're not like one way or the other that's the neutrality feeling right yeah so that's interesting all right so that's the kind of the feeling thing and then I think you know when you're talking about Daniel all those like subdivisions of those emotions will sort of fit underneath there or something or another so it's not like they don't they can fit together yeah most things can um all right then uh that's the water yeah going with feelings so that seems like that makes a kind of intuitive sense and then there's the fire and that's connected with something you can kind of talk about as being uh the concepts of the person yeah we talked yeah yeah we talked yeah kind of that idea sometimes I'll talk about discrimination but you know that word sounds kind of funny in English so um so whatever you want to do with that uh whatever whatever terminology works for you you had one that you liked I'm trying to remember what it was discernments discernment that also seems good yeah yeah so this is kind of a person's sort of Concepts and categories in of their life how they organize things cognitively or mentally and so at this point you can't get to it with the psychology is talking about you have this idea of the physical form the feelings and then sort of the the mental categories of the person would you could we could we say that this could also be something like archetypes here okay you know let's let's come back to it because there's a really interesting question about this archetype thing and it's to my mind it's coming up so I'll I'll see what you think about it yeah yeah like where does an archetype fit into this whole thing it's kind of like an interesting discussion um yeah so uh I've been thinking about the whole thing a lot lately too so that's very timely um all right so that's the fire thing in our quickie review and then they talk about this idea of wind element or energy this is where you get the word Prana being used here right for energy and uh and uh this is kind of a funny one to talk about when you think about what makes up a person because you can get a very complicated idea here of what they call compositional factors which is sort of like all the karmic energetic elements that make up a person and that gets really complicated or sometimes when they talk about in terms of like a person's life in the end of their life they just talk about kind of their goals their um their big picture agendas those kinds of things can be kind of captured here and I think when you have to simplify it down that's kind of Handy will do that at times that way and they do that and when they talk about specifically with the death of a person you know like it's an interesting idea like maybe we all have big picture agenda things that we want to accomplish in the terms of our life like maybe for some person it's really important to be a mom for another person it's really important to be successful in their career for another person that's really important to find like relationships and love for another person that's really important to find spirituality or whatever it is you know you have these very big big picture big ticket items on the agenda that you're kind of like you really want to get and so it has something to do with that on some level but Eric I'll tell you man I I don't have them really there's things that I want to do but I don't know that I have like some like grand scheme like I just want to continue to be you know of service useful you know have some creative Outlets you know what I'm saying like that's I think that's what they mean it's like the things that like kind of Drive the person forward ah okay that's where the energy comes from right it's the energy so it's not like a bucket list thing you're like well I really wanted to build the Taj Mahal been uh in Albuquerque but you know yeah yeah I wanted to do like a like a a drive-in version of the Taj Mahal yeah right serve burgers okay interesting uh yeah I don't know I think it's kind of what I I get that's that's the idea it's grown at me over time okay so when you start like digging down at people there's probably things that really drive them right so like could almost say like Tendencies karmic Tendencies yeah yeah I get that but I mean well I guess yeah we'll throw that to Audi the audience to think about it too I mean think about it for yourself and see what you think but my sense is like when you dig down somewhere underneath you probably have things like well that doesn't work out for this person they're gonna have a serious problem because it's deep enough to drive them right in the driving there you go drive what's your drive is really deep yeah maybe if you dig down deep you might find those kinds of things that doesn't have to be like one thing necessarily right but you know you realize like oh that's really at the core of who this person is okay I don't I don't know you know if we do talk about like in terms of my professional career like I care a little bit but not that much you know that just doesn't drive me you know if it really drove me I'd be doing a lot of things different and uh you know make different decisions and do things a lot harder so it matters but it's not really it you know what I mean right right those things that you'll really drive at yeah it's not that obviously we're doing a spirituality podcast so it's for a lot of us this is going to be a spirituality question yeah that was like the like one of the preeminent questions of my life you know so that was a major driver but other things you know are there too you know and you mentioned some of it I think too like I If you don't feel creative then you'll feel yeah so it can be even more abstract it doesn't have to be that concrete yeah that's interesting so I guess we get to all think about for ourselves right if we look deep do we start to find like oh there are quintessential drivers sometimes you find that when you have to like you're making choices you realize um this is actually more important about yourself maybe anyway something to think about yeah okay then I can't remember what we got to I think we got to the idea of Consciousness but I think we stopped there right we stopped right here with fire yeah oh we did the wind one too we did the conversation we did fire and win yeah yeah this is where this is kind of where we got to we talked about the compositional factors uh we also use like yeah goals or Ambitions you know yep the underlying kind of like drives yeah it's interesting to think about right anyway so the the fifth of these we're talking about Consciousness right that was the next thing we wanted to talk about and uh so this is where they start breaking down what might start to look like things that are archetypal and Eric before before we go just to give to just catch people up so this is so this is these kind of like these eight dissolutions yeah yeah of uh of a person of a being as they are sort of transitioning from this conscious Waking Life To The Next Step the next stage and so we kind of gave these first four last time that our that our physical moving into the energetic and now and those are kind of viewed as like the external portion yeah the the more the gross level or something the gross okay there we go you said the gross level yeah so that so we did that last time and so we just did a little overview and now we're going to kind of go into like the more subtle aspects of the Buddha nature of the Shen of the mind and the soul of more subtle yeah yeah it's very interesting because you get to the point where you're really talking about things that are kind of like mental experiential here or something yeah and it's you know we've done episodes on this before but like in Buddhist thought like your Consciousness your mind your spirit your soul or whatever exist like that's a thing it's not just like your body buzzing away with some electricity you know there's this other thing that's there uh so now we're really kind of talking about that all the form things have gone away but you're kind of exploring the deeper recesses of what would be your own psyche spirit and Consciousness and Shannon stuff so we've gotten pretty deep at this point if you think about it you have like consciousness of all your sensory experiences which is something we talked about in the last episode you have your eyes and your ears eyes are associated with physical forms and you know the Earth element and we talked about the ears and the water and smelling and the fire and all that those get a kind of a conversation Point too that's part of like our experience of ourselves right to have those uh sensory experiences you know so Buddhism kind of points that out you know you're always having sensory experiences you know that are coming through you know your sense organs into your Consciousness into your Shen into your spirit into your psyche into who you are um but then you get more like what the nature of this deeper part is it's funny because they don't say this is as deep yet so they still kind of say this is a little bit more gross level but this is where the archetype thing comes up okay and I find this really interesting and I think for anyone who's thought about Yin and Yang in their life at any time this is kind of interesting too so what they kind of do is they kind of say that there are these 80 almost like archetypal mental States that's right they're not like you know we haven't done a Carl Jung episodes yet but Carl Jung is really famous as the psychologist who talks about like archetypal things mother archetypes and father archetypes and tricksters and all these kinds of things which we still have to do an episode on drunk for many things drunk uncle uncle yeah he's your favorite uncle though for sure like by far there is not a better one or he's the one that like you have to stop inviting into the family gatherings for various reasons awesome but to be honest he might be your Maga uncle right he could he's like a family that's right depends on your family yeah um so anyways it's this idea it's not exactly like that though it's more like these are like fundamental just Universal like mental States or something like that it's really interesting and you get these lists and of the 80 they're divided up into ones that are more Yin ones that are more young and then ones that are kind of neutral so they go back to that same card being played again ones that are kind of more on one side ones that are more on the other side the ones that are kind of more in the middle and when you look at the lists they're kind of interesting you know all the ones that are kind of Yin aren't all negative but you do get things that seem kind of Yin like they talk about minds of like great sorrow that have to do with loss or they'll talk about having like big fears right or they'll talk about having like uh deep belongings um and then there's some very Primal things going on here like hunger and thirst appear here um they're not all kind of negative you know like there's ones that talk about feeling kind of like peaceful in a Yin way like kind of a calm peaceful feeling not like a young fiery excited feeling but a young peaceful feeling and there are some that are kind of like abstract like they'll talk about shame or uh uh as a kind of like a general kind of fundamental emotional state or jealousy um but then some of them are positive because they talk about feeling kind of a a more Yin calm Compassion or a more Yin kind of feeling of mercy so I just you actually got the list up in front of me so I'm just giving some examples of it and is there there's like it's like 37 37 and six or something it goes like 33 40 and seven yeah okay so from the yin ones there's 33 of them um now we haven't done a lot on the subtle energy channels either no to me you're supposed to have this more Yin subtly energy channel on the inside of the left side of the body yeah and there's something where you can kind of notice that when your your whole energetics baby kind of pivots over to that side you'll feel more of these kinds of Minds more of these kinds of Vibes so like when that particular part of the energetics are more going you know like if you've done any of this stuff yogically um sometimes you know you talk about like one channel on one side of the spine one on the other and one kind of in the middle right and they have the yogic game for those too you might know them how they're talked about in punch uh patanjali more than yeah yeah oh yeah that's right they don't use those terms exactly and no the Sun and the Moon Yeah on one channel so you know the idea that the one on the one side this is just interesting to me because I kind of feel like I I had noticed that myself I had almost like wow there's something funny I noticed that back in doing zendo even though they didn't say it this way but I had kind of I was like wow when my left side is more active I feel these kinds of feelings my right side is more active I seem to feel like a different set of feelings you might like even if you do yoga or something you might notice that in yourself right or if you meditate right sometimes you start and I was like wow things are shifting around inside of me and when it's on this side I seem to feel more like this but when this side happens I feel more like this and sometimes the nostrils will open yeah you know like and you'll feel that like if the left is really dominant you're breathing to the left you'll feel more of these Yin mines and when it gets to the other side you'll feel more of what we're going to describe as the young ones a little bit the other part that's interesting from a physiological standpoint is they'll they'll talk about this kind of like fluid shift in the body this this uh inner and external uh cellular fluids Right Moving crossing over the you know Crossing in and out of the membranes that's supposed to happen naturally as a part of like lymphatics as a part of your cardiovascular system but that it'll not only will move like internal external in terms of like your intercellular Matrix but it'll also move body left and right yeah so it's supposed to it's it's naturally supposed to do that and so I think that like ideally right you're balanced everything has it's it's you know you can kind of go back and forth but if you are paying attention in the subtle States or maybe when you're getting some acupuncture treatment which if you're not you should do that like immediately um as a shout out to acupuncture but you know you can you can definitely tell some of these states you know or some of these kind of like mindsets and maybe you can't always tell like I'm more active or I'm less active because you might just end up falling asleep on one side then you know then you're in probably like in the neutrality part sometimes you just kind of like veg out in the center which we'll talk about because you get a little veggie when that stuff happens you're not to one side or the other yeah but these are it's a cool it's not just a thought experiment you know with some of this it kind of is but like these ones actually are not you can kind of like you could set out an intent you could sit down with a meditation or lay down with the meditation with the intention of like experiencing whatever it is and then just going in and seeing how it is when you connect to one side than the other um yeah I'd be like I know again doing Zen I just noticed it I was just sitting there like counting my breath and you know semi bored sometimes in great pain Zen Retreats are funny you know you learn a lot right so you're just kind of thrown in there and you just start to have experience and I did start to notice that like wow this is weird my my right nostril opened and I feel like much more peppy what that's about you know but now I can kind of say okay yeah it's because you have these different qualities of how the energex are going to affect your mind depending on where things are going the way you talk about it with the uh like the lymphatics and cerebral spinal fluids and all these kinds of fluid things on the physical level they talk about that and then sometimes when they talk about the more subtle energetics they do talk about like channels and they talk about energies that move through those channels sometimes I use the word wins right and then the idea of these drops like the subtle little kind of Quasi hormonal drops going through or something in the subtle part but it gets supposed to be more subtle than like your actual chemicals that are going through you know um uh but anyways it's yeah it's all that's interesting right like a kind of like a subtle physical version of this same thing it seems like very neurological too yeah but it really has a neurological Vibe yeah um yeah for our TCM listeners the way I was presented with this and it has always made sense to me that the TCM traditional Chinese medicine the acupuncture channels and things like that probably are a little more tied to the physical body yeah and then this kind of thing we're talking about now is a little bit more tied kind of to the psyche or the Shen or the consciousness of the person right so it's a more subtle thing so anyway so that's the idea of this and uh again I found I found all this to be pretty helpful you're right there's a real physical thing you can notice with it so my body's doing different things I can feel my mood changing right I feel like all of it once you use it can become helpful because you can start to notice oh that's my feelings okay this is my physical form those are my feelings oh these are my Concepts and categories you know like you can start to see those things in yourself so I I hopefully all this stuff ends up being practical but you're right this can be quite striking because you can just get like a physical shift that you can notice on that physical level and you can feel how much it affects your mind right and like vice versa I guess right yeah all right so on those Yin ones then when you get to the young ones they have their own kinds of ups and downs with them so they do mention Joy here and they kind of say like varying degrees of Joy it kind of goes they do the same thing on the inside varying degrees of Sorrow you know these are varying degrees of happinesses and joys and then they talk about all the way up to rejoicing and they use one called rapture uh excitement young things amazement contentment some of the sexuality stuff starts to kick in here too and they're kind of named kind of funny because it says like a mind that wants to embrace a mind that wants to kiss a mind that wants to suck [Music] um but also for babies you know yes you feel happy at their mother's breast um uh effort is kind of interesting uh Delight um flirtation uh yeah so kind of like different human experiences and I guess experiences of living things that are kind of like Universal and then uh but they how they all have their ups and downs here too like they talk about in the negative side you might talk about Pride here being more Associated is kind of a young state to be in you feel kind of like hyped up and you know whatever you're feeling there in terms of feeling a little bit inflated in yourself right um uh heroism you know as mentioned here is a kind of a more positive thing that you're willing to go through and do something proactive a mind wishing to overcome enemies such as delusions okay that's that kind of a nice way right uh and then they can but then again you know some of them go back to negative things like um uh untruth you know sometimes we're in these young States who get a little overblown with yourself I think about like when you when people are manic right they get kind of overblown in these ways you know they'll act out be deluded you know so dishonesty you know sometimes when you're over hyped you'll feel these feelings to in your state of excitement so anyways these are young minds at the end and so that's sort of that part of the discussion and I think it's interesting you know and you can kind of see when you're in those States I mean in those States you might get into some of those more young things too you might be more easily angry or more easily Desires in a way that's kind of negative right maybe makes you feel a little sneaky okay so okay so those are those Minds those are the young ones now now you get to the point where you can ask the question this is archetypal right but it's not like a jungian archetype this is different somehow yeah so it's interesting you know they're they're more like Sub sub um ah foundational maybe I should use that yeah something or other let's go after the sub in this but foundational covers it yeah you know so um anyway so what do you think does it strike you as archetypal I would say archetypal in the not in a way of like a Persona because the the young archetypes they're it's a it's a character of a number of different subtypes so a number of these kind of Aggregates underneath a larger header right yeah and then that header has a name so you could say you know maybe we would say like the sad mother you know or like a mother archetype but one of them might be like the sad and mournful mother yeah the mournful mother one of them might be the very gentle and tender mother part of this archetype yeah correct right I love that stuff we haven't done the episodes on that but this is obviously not bad it's different somehow right yeah this is this is yeah I think more foundational you know this does seem more foundational to me so yeah those are maybe that that's like a the archetypes and I'm gonna use a cooking comparison so those are kind of like a recipe and these are kind of like the ingredients yeah that probably makes sense to me something like that yeah so you want to make a kitchen a chicken cacciatore you gotta come to the Aggregates to get your uh Cacciatore I don't know what's in that yeah it's not like that yeah and then like you well yeah you need your basic ingredients you could have a little you can have the whole recipe you don't got any ingredients you're not getting any chicken cacciatore or anything else right yeah so um yeah so that's kind of the idea of it they are very foundational you know and uh and like I suppose part of the exercise then they say is that you can kind of observe these in yourself yeah and again if you like yin and yang thinking it does make you realize oh these are kind of Yin mines I'm kind of bluesy I'm kind of fearful I'm kind of whatever oh I'm in a Yin state you know you can maybe start to feel that in yourself or you go on the flip side I'm feeling all hyped I'm feeling all happy I'm feeling proud of myself I'm feeling heroic yeah but I better be careful because I don't want to get flirty I don't want to get too flirty over the top but maybe I do anyways these are young minds right and it like produces these kinds of more exciting kind of states and you can kind of just recognize them in yourself right yeah we can call that one the longing father the longing father archetype yeah [Music] um well I mean everyone has everybody has a Hungry Heart I think I think Bruce Springsteen the boss saying that about that's right at some point or another uh all right so anyway so this is these kinds of things that are more young States interesting you know so really dividing up in this way and then they have the ones that are more neutral and those are like seven of them I think usually this is supposed to be thought of as before almost like yin and yang differentiates or something like that you know before there's a real clear differentiation you have this like kind of these kind of funny states that are kind of like in the middle before strong either way and they are kind of very uh they're kind of very like neutral in the middle maybe even a little Bland or something so they talk about like forgetfulness so an unconcentrated kind of a mind they talk about um laziness they talk about doubt they talk about uh kind of being like stuck in the middle of attachment you know equal not one way or the other you're not into something you're not averse to something you're kind of like in the middle uh non-speaking so you're more withdrawn am I not wishing to speak um anyways it's this kind of stuff forgetfulness mistake in that you just kind of like Bland and you're not recognizing things yeah so in the middle forgetfulness mistaken this laziness doubt these kinds of things maybe kind of like a bland kind of feeling of annoyance and depression that just kind of like in the middle like so the whole thing I think is supposed to have kind of like an feeling to it okay like that yeah so those are the ones that are kind of there okay now that gets you to the 80 and so they're either more Yin more Yang or kind of like in the middle of this thing kind of undivided and those are that's the smallest group but uh I know probably how a lot of people feel these kind of blah minds or something like that and again they connect back to the channels in funny ways one more to one side one more to the other side maybe one more in the center Central channel is really important so just to say that this is just these seven lines of the central Channel I don't know if Dex totally covers it but these are kind of like those non-differentiated either in or young things and that's kind of archetypal in a way right I found this to be useful though have you found this to be helpful overall I mean you know you in order to get to them you really got to be I think you have to have a tendency in addition to being subtle yourself you have to have a tendency you know like I don't know that you could search out some of them I guess you could um if it's pointed out that it's kind of like that you can maybe start to become aware of them sure I know for me like again it was something where I have a very strong sense of like weird imbalances and I can feel things go from one side to the other yeah and that like that I really did notice that and I found that to be pretty helpful yeah and at some point I decided Well I bet should just I mean I kind of loosely memorize them you know and I was like yeah I can kind of be on the lookout for this and I did start to notice those things in myself and then you can start to go like well this is too this is too sad too bluesy to whatever let me like shift this [...] over a little bit and get a little bit more yeah I mean you can start to feel like you have a little bit more flexibility in your own way of thinking about your own mood but you're right you have to like be paying attention to your emotions and your mental states to I kind of find that to get to that headspace even to be able to use these things right well anyways that's the Consciousness aspect and this is what's supposed to go next for the person right and that's going to be kind of resolved like dissolving even the the capacity they have these very fundamental mental States will be disappearing and I guess to what you were talking about earlier Daniel this is where things get really subtle so this is all considered to be still a little bit more on the on the gross level but after that it starts to get really subtle and they talk about these three appearances right um and this is interesting you know like there's meditations on this where you try to try to imagine these things all kind of like dissolving right I think we said last episode The Dalai Lama does this one six times a day you know because it's like a standard thing that you would do six times a day you go through this process of letting all these parts of you kind of dissolve and then eventually you go to these Minds that are kind of like or these experiences that are like very uh subtle right and they're kind of divided up into white red and black which gets you back to that same idea one side the other side are kind of in the middle so they almost say like the ability to kind of have an awareness of those mental kind of internal states that are more kind of Yin or young or neutral kind of gives you a hint into being able to find these things underneath these very fundamental internal experiences of maybe like pure Yin which would be like a wide experience right they talk about that like they kind of like the way a moon looks or something like that like the moon in the sky and then um as you can experience like pure Yin so the dying person will experience pure Yin and then they'll experience pure young and that will look red and fiery you know maybe red or orange or something like that like a sun and then eventually they'll experience this experience of kind of just like uh Darkness right but you know Bob Thurman makes a big point now the darkness here that's like nothing but a Darkness that's before there's even like a division into either young the division into positive the negative to the vision into electrons and protons or whatever you're just doing this neutrality like you know pre-state and this is kind of the what they call these states of these the the subjective experience of the person is supposed to be oh a white like the moon a red like the sun and then this Darkness right so going through these three states and you can meditate on them you know it's a dalalama does six times a day as you and I do if you do six times a day but we do it right we do it yep not six not on Retreat six yes off a tree no a few times a day I definitely do it multiple times a day and you know so these are these this is this idea what was interesting to me is someone coming from like like we talked about earlier Daniel the Taoist world it was kind of easy to go oh this is pure Yin oh this is pure yawn oh this is before yin and yang even divides itself it was very easy to kind of understand it that way is that how you tended to think about it yeah yeah I think so I mean they're they're also like you know in doing when doing the meditation there's also like the visualization aspect to it and at least when I'm doing it sometimes I feel like other things might come up as you as you do it you know yeah for sure and so there's just like this kind of like as you get a familiarity with something there's some kind of natural tendencies karmically or daily at or you know who knows celestial bodies are moving around and whatever that kind of call to you as you do it and there's more there on that particular in that particular practice on that particular day so one of them might appear more vibrant on one day or another or something like that yeah yeah um you and I had a conversation way way back in the day on this like a long time ago where we were just talking about like sometimes it's easier when you're a dude to see the pure white thing you know and sometimes it's harder to see the red one or something like that and then like I think in the Buddhist tantric thought you know the male reproductive system substances is you know it's white it's the semen it's the ejaculate right and the female is more associated with the red and the blood and the endometrial lining and the menstrual flow and all that so it might be easier for women to see the red that's what they say had this conversation back in the day well you and I before anyone even said that we had this way way back in the day in my dining room yeah talking about this and it's like it's easy to see white it is yeah but it's hard to see red and there was like a woman that we knew who was there and she said oh no what's wrong with you I can see the red all the time we were like well okay there you go there you go so anyways that might be the case if you try to meditate on these things we're gonna we have a promise that we're gonna do visualizations along with us yeah either as a little short meditative like addendum episode or it's a separate thing we'll describe how to do that but anyway so yeah so this is the idea that uh you know the dying person is supposed to go through where they're kind of feeling like this deepest part of who they are and probably the deepest part of the Universe on some level they're experiencing it at this point they're experiencing pure Yin with the moon pure Yang with the fiery glow of the Sun or you know that kind of a thing and then the union before things have even differentiated so that's it you can call it uh primordial you know polar energy yeah and you get to like this is why this is kind of interesting because they kind of say that these things only happen in certain moments where you get to see these things you can meditate on them and try to like get a sense of them that way and then they kind of spontaneously happen as the person's life ends right because the thing that holds the person together starts to like come apart these fundamental energies that hold a living thing together are dissolving right they kind of say like you get I mean if you want to go through like we were talking about before with the reproductive substances they kind of say like you have like your white genetic part of you that comes from your father's side and then the red part that comes from the mother's side or you know one side or the other right come together those two energies come together and then they kind of make this Union right but as you get to the end of your life even those like the most Primal aspects start to like come apart that's the idea of it yeah Okay so black dark appearance and then the idea is that that kind of like splits open right and after that you you reach what is the most subtle aspect of a living thing so this is kind of where all this process has been leading and in terms of what you call this this is where you would talk about like a Buddha nature like what you were talking about I think more in the beginning of the episode even right you know getting down to that really core part of what makes up a living thing um I think if you like a little bit more Taoist stuff you might call this the Yuan Shen or the original Shen of the person right it's the deepest aspect of the soul of the person or the spirit of the person I hope you want to frame that um coming from the Dalai Lama school which is kind of like our touch point for this you know they'll sometimes we're talk about this and how it's sort of feels to a person experiencing this so they'll sometimes call it the clear light mind a clear light mind of bliss and emptiness potentially if you build this up so there's a kind of a question is this inherently Blissful and empty or is it like something that you learn how to see it that way that's a kind of a solo point but in any case sometimes you'll hear this idea of the clear light mind or the clear light mind the Bliss and emptiness I guess emptiness here in the sense that it's kind of formless which I when it hit me it made sense because like you know I'm Eric now but I'm not always going to be Eric that's what I'm thinking I'm gonna be somebody else that was something else before so when you get to the core of who a person is it has to be kind of formless it could be Eric otherwise Eric would keep existing forever and he's obviously not going to [...] son of a [...] damn it but okay that's how it is got to accept it and um you know so when you get to the core of who you are it's like not any particular somebody that's right it's not like uh what the old jokes about like uh all the Hollywood people who would do their like previous life experiences and they were always like Cleopatra or like uh um and hotel or Nefertiti or something no no it's like a formless thing right so you know that's the idea of like a Buddha nature or the root of like um like who you are at the very deepest part right yeah Robert Thurman makes a pretty he drives his point home a lot and when you make the effort to look for yourself if you end up you know chasing your tail like a dog right you're spinning and spinning and so you cannot find you know and eventually you come to the point where you realize oh there is no me yeah yeah that's the uh yeah the selflessness of a person or The Emptiness of a person or something yeah yeah but I I also like the term you know and I think Bobby T's used it and some other people have used it like the term Freedom you know in addition or or alongside emptiness just because like emptiness is lacking intrinsic thing Freedom free from intrinsic thing you know like you're kind of like one is a negation and our minds I don't know if it's a western mind or whatever at least my mind when you have a negation of a thing it almost I don't know it feels evacuous on some level but it's not actually vacuous of up it's not vacuous of anything it's vacuous of thing yeah they sometimes call it like other emptiness which is empty of these other things right right and what is it full up well it's full of like clear light blissfulness right hence uh you know Robert Thurman Bobby T's book uh alternate title cheer the [...] up that's right right because this is the core of who you are we tried to make that point yeah yeah um yeah so it's like yeah I came from this through Zen that was my initial thing and uh certainly in the school of Zen I was doing they placed a they didn't tell you Zen is funny they don't tell you [...] they just say go meditate read this way do these things right but like in a way I think in the Zen I was doing for sure they wanted you to hit this thing this Buddha nature part um Haku and the founder of the school has a whole long poem he writes about Buddha nature right and again I was like in my 20s I was just trying to learn things as I was going but I think this was the experience they were driving towards and you can get glimpses of this you know you get very deeply meditated and all of a sudden you're like wow okay there's something else here that I didn't realize was me somehow this like deep State and it's very pleasant you know and I can remember hitting it and I'm ever feeling like like it I I could be like Captain America we were talking like uh before the the show even started I could do this all day that's his line from The Avengers I could do this all day I was like meditating was like I could do this [...] forever because you hit the core of who you are and it's very yeah it's it's a it's a revelatory and feels really good you know so anyways that's kind of this idea but I didn't know any of this Theory yeah that was kind of interesting it was more like like plonky and it was experiential for me so then like I think learning more about it later on was just like the other half of something I mean I knew the term Buddha nature obviously like an idea of it but not all of this detail and like clear light minds of bliss and emptiness that kind of Vibes with how it sort of felt to me to the extent that I've experienced this you know doing all this Zen stuff so anyway so that's the idea this is the the deepest part of who you are and uh um the root of that person's uh spirit or whatever and then uh that's it all you have to just do is stay there don't move problem solved all right but but the observation is made that uh you probably this probably is going to happen for most folks um there's a whole part of again using the school of dilemmas is kind of the touch Point here where you can say that uh you can meditate on this in your lifetime and you can also meditate on this as you're passing right and you can seek Enlightenment at this point too and recognize this as the core of Who You Are and then you start to have like your the enlightened experience going another Direction but for most people it's not going to go that way and um and the idea is that once you hit the final core of this this kind of universal ground of who you are I guess you should also say that this is kind of like the like you might call it the ground of being or you might call it Dao or you might call it like you like the term the endless when we're using the kabbalistic terms love it this is it right this is like you're hitting the inner aspect of this within yourself that's undifferentiated from the external aspect sometimes I'll describe this as like water pouring into water I think we talked about this last episode yeah I talked I talked with uh my friend Daniel the kabbalist guy uh yeah and he said he said he's like endless he's a interesting way of translating it I think he would say that they call they would call it Without End yeah Without End so yeah Without End yeah in English it's like those are kind of close oh yeah for sure yeah yeah without end or the endless yeah um but this idea like I think that like this is the part of yourself that's like the same as like the source of everything or something like that if you want to look from that point of view especially if you're like maybe more of a theistic person right this is where you kind of hit your part of yourself that's the Divinity within or something yeah I I will say though from my couple experiences where I've definitely hit that it's alive yeah it's not a nothing it's not enough it's not it's not just like oh Bing here's a light it's an LED you know uh 2400k hid LED in the middle of like a space you know uh it really like emerges like it's an emergence from nothing what seems like nothing like just share anything and everything and nothing at the same time and then it just kind of just comes it just kind of appears and at least in my experience when it appears it it appears as like a being would you know like like a being who was watching you almost you know and you were kind of not lost or something like that but you're searching or wandering or whatever going down a path and then you know and it's totally dark at night and then your uncle your cool Uncle who is you know not a dragon one not the manga one you know but like everybody have a buzz on but he's like yeah he's not but he's totally chill bro it's just it's just Mike's Hard Lemonade you know he's fine uh yeah yeah it's a barbecue yeah but like they would just emerge from this middle of forest dressed in like all white with all of the things that you would need water and a flashlight and a coat and you know some heating pads for your toes you know like everything that you would need just kind of seems to come up and and presents a very I don't know nourishing experience pads for your toes well you're cold you're cold yeah that's right you're gonna be cold you need some heating pads that's true heating pads for your toes you know but this whole device there's like separate little heating pads for each toe yeah you break them up you put them in your shoe and walk around yeah it's nice um but yeah so it's like it's like it kind of emerges from from you know essentially nowhere really but at the same time it also has a presence to it and it's it feels like Consciousness itself I don't know if I you know it's hard to describe yeah so it's like a funny thing is isn't that like this is like at the roots of like how people think about this overall right do you see this as like a separate being do you see it as you do you see it as like everything like how do you see this right this is like the the conundrum part of this right I will tell you from myself obviously different Traditions will kind of like emphasize different parts of this and probably then different people will have different subjective ways that they relate to this right I didn't see it as me I definitely didn't see it as me but I would say I didn't see it as separate from me either you know so it sort of like came up from me but from somewhere else also you know what I'm saying the question of like you know each of us get to ask is this a statement about what this is a statement about my personality and how I experience this there's no doubt like when you meditate this on a daily basis you're supposed to say okay this thing is me yeah you know in the in the Buddhist Tantra thing right so that doesn't mean you have to do that but that's how this is framed right you know there's like a little like verse in Sanskrit about this um in galactic's version of this it was actually translated by the really famous beat poet Ellen Ginsberg so he took the Sanskrit and kind of made it into kind of like a little mini verse of poetry it's not that you know like wow so poetic but you know he did render it and it's something I should look at the exact words I don't always do them in exactly those words you know when I get to this but there's this whole idea like you say like okay this is bliss emptiness this is who I am this is the root of who I am you know but you know you can kind of see like different people will go and maybe have different versions of this experience and like it'll hit them in different ways right very personal yeah very personal very personal um okay so this is this is the you know if we talk about like the Tibetan book the dead or the book of the Bardo this is this place that you that everyone goes to yeah and maybe like an experience that you have glimpses of at different times during your life they say you have it sometimes uh during sleep you'll hit this thing sometimes it'll happen like during sexuality you'll hit this thing sometimes it'll happen you know in other funny ways this you'll have glimpses and flashes of this you can again you can try to get to a meditative place where you experience this which is powerful uh but this is the core of who a person is and you know this is like you know kind of the separation of Yin and Yang and it's at the at the end game right what you were talking about Daniel now the spirit is separated from the body and this is where you start talking about this thing called the Bardo something that most people around kind of like move on in their story right at this point so this is the Bardo experience and um the Bardo is um translated like by Robert thermos the between and most people buy the between uh so this is this between experience that um really happens like once the person is pulled back out of this clear lifeless emptiness Buddha nature experiencing that part of who they are they come back out again why'd they come back out again and the idea is that you usually are probably driven by something inside your own like deepest parts of who you are you know your your deepest parts of the psyche of your spirit or something like that they'll still be pulled out right and um so the person comes out of this experience and um and then it's very interesting to think about how to describe this you know because now a whole bunch of things will start to appear to the person in the Tibetan Book of the Dead the Bardo they kind of describe it probably in the way a Buddhist person would see it but you have to imagine other people would see this in other ways and you know we can think about that but the Mind comes out of this deepest part of who it is and now it's sort of like in a certain sense experiencing itself uh and it's experiencing the world in this very kind of deep energetic and symbolic way so in terms of like the outer World space doesn't matter as much there's this idea that you can have all kinds of experiences that will seem to be not limited by space but it's also there's like almost the idea you get the the sense that you're really experiencing kind of like again your own inner world as much as you're experiencing anything external and the idea is that this kind of happens in stages then once the Mind leaves this clear light thing you'll start to experience a whole range of different probably experiences of yourself some will be initially more pleasant so you'll come out and you'll experience of the pleasant adverse and neutral your first experience the more pleasant States and the Tibetan Book of the Dead they kind of advise the person to kind of imagine all the Blissful deities that they've been meditating on in their life or something like that right um but this might be you know if you're not a tantric person you'll just have experiences that are kind of pleasant right so the initial experience is kind of like almost like an internal inventory of a pleasant experiences and images does that make sense as a way to put it down yeah I think so that happens first you know and you're kind of like you're uh Shen or your spirit isn't connected to any physical body right so it's kind of experiencing itself or if experiences the world experiences this in this very fluid way because it's not kind of bound in the same way space and time wise as we are when we're tied into a physical body like the way we are in our normal lives but okay we'll think of it mostly As like experiencing your inner world to experience the positive States and that goes on for a while and then you start to experience things that Veer more towards the neutral side should start having like subjective neutral experiences and again in the kind of like the Buddhist tantric World you'd be crappy meditating on divinities that have more of that neutral quality to them or something like that and then the idea is that eventually it'll start to Veer towards the more unpleasant internal States will start to appear and then what the person will subjectively experience then in a certain sense you're experiencing your own your own internal World your own internality but as far as what you'll be kind of seeing in that time will be things that will seem frightening or things that will seem uh yeah frightening scary sad hostile whatever this is a little bit sometimes when you listen to how they talk about why sometimes you meditate on Buddhist images that are kind of scary scary looking you know aggressive looking it's to like learn how to handle these sides inside of yourself but also when you have these experiences in meditation or maybe in death you're not scared by them so much right they don't overwhelm you your own fearful um sad and scary parts of yourself don't overwhelm you because you've been meditating on them right to prepare for these kinds of internal experiences but they're just in the Tibetan Book of the Dead is once it gets to that point well then there becomes a desire to not like be doing this anymore you're like you don't want to do this anymore and so uh this is the point in the Tibetan Book of the Dead and the part where they talk about like trying to find your next life so now this uh Bardo being they sometimes use that term for this we'll start looking around for like okay how do I get out of these scary unpleasant experiences and that will lead them to try to look for another life where they hook back up again into um into physicality so they're being drawn back in the form and you know usually way to describe is this being a sort of now looking not in itself but out at the world and looking for parents that would look good right so it's like cruising it's yeah that's it it's it's uh swiping left repeatedly but yeah looking for this thing right and there is this idea like there's a sexuality aspect to this which is kind of interesting this idea of uh you know being drawn to uh you know sexuality and the joy of sexuality and the pleasures of sexuality that's naturally something that that the spirit will gravitate towards right it's drawn towards that but also that's drawn towards parents that one feels probably some kind of connection with right you're being drawn by some kind of connection and whether this is totally conscious or not that's always kind of like you know usually in Buddhism they don't say this is entirely conscious this gets to be kind of like not something that you're like thinking like okay these people look pretty good but you know they have some character flaws maybe I should avoid them or something it's much more like reactive right because you know there's kind of you're in this scary State and you start thinking okay I want to get out of this and you're drawn to the sexuality component and you're also drawn towards certain people just in some instinctive way right into a distinctive way and this will connect you to your parents right and then the spirit will come become entwined with the uh reproductive uh substances of the parents and the magic of conception occurs now here we all are this is the backstory of how we got to where we are you know and you'll have some connection or another you know there's a kind of an interesting energetic karmic pole that happens here and people wind up where they are so that's the story The Tibetan Book of the Dead what do you think that end part's kind of interesting to me it's almost like other live interesting pieces of like yeah there's a sexuality component you know being drawn towards that and then being drawn towards parents that you feel some connection with some way or another right but what is that connected to for people what is the um you know so you have this you know positive neutral and the negative and but what if you're able to transcend the the you know pull of the sort of harder or more difficult more fearful aspects of oneself because that's I mean the goal is to be able to have control over this right not be so following momentum you know repeating repeating repeating to this interesting question of like you know like okay llamas and Kappa right founder of the school of delamas talks about this idea like you can get enlightened in the Bardo right how does that happen you go through and you recognize this deepest part of who you are as Who You Are and this becomes sort of a certain part of the the enlightenment aspect of the person right they use this word Dharma Kaya for it truth body that's right and at that point usually because you've been kind of meditating on this over and over again you then realize that okay I can start to energetically expand myself out into the world in a way that's much more controlled and that can start like you know um becoming an energetic enlightened being you know that will like reach out to everything with love and compassion and trying to help everybody out that's Enlightenment technically speaking we actually haven't done that episode you know what's Enlightenment right I think we had Bobby T on to talk about it but he's so technical he's very technical he's very technical but very like quirky but the return in a completely lovable way yeah of course that's that's one way but then they also do talk about what you're saying too that people can start to get more conscious during this and choose where they're born in a much more conscious way that's another way this is talked about that's for sure maybe more what you're even talking about right yeah that you're able to kind of go like okay let me try to put myself in the optimal position then again they talk about this in the Tibetan tradition like people will go okay these look like good parents for me it's much more of a conscious Choice rather than this reactive thing so you know they do talk about that way but then uh just for technical terms that we may have to break down next time but the movement from the Bardo state to I would say maybe like more and more evenly distributed energetic emanation that's the nirmanakaya at that point yeah so it's supposed to be like this is really interesting this is like what an enlight what enlightenment is you know when you look at it through this framework yeah so in the Tibetan Book of the Dead and the Bardo the idea is that when you hit this pure clear light Bliss mind this is the seed of what will be this um Pure formless Energy body of an enlightened being right not limited by space and time right and then they say that there's a subtle energetic aspect that comes out which is analogous to what happens in the Bardo so the Bardo energetic part of the person becomes this thing called the saboga Kaya which gets translated as um enjoyment body a Bobby T I think makes the point that this is the root of the same word for like orgasm right so it's just an energetic permutation of the person like uh like the Matrix except not some creepy piano Lawrence Fishburne but you are a matrix that goes out radiating Good Vibrations to everybody and then the harmonica is the idea that that's kind of interesting because either like it comes out as an individual person or the idea that it's kind of again is like kind of a more gross level energetic Matrix or something like that that goes out that's kind of interesting and are are you so we actually haven't done the technical what is what the [...] is this Enlightenment thing I think we've tried it at various times let's just do it let's just do it next week then okay we'll see maybe we do it next week because it's like you know that's been kind of a question and you know again we we consciously had Robert Thurman on to talk about this we did but once he starts rolling you can't stop Bobby T he's a trans he's a he's a freight train of like a hundred cars you know and we're just two guys just trying to stop it you can be an immovable object but he is like an Unstoppable force of uh he's an Unstoppable verbal Force he is and wisdom a wit and wisdom and cheer the [...] up so yeah we wanted to talk about but he's so Technical and it's funny because you and I are probably more we both have like kind of a little bit of a physics interest in our background for sure and we're kind of like well what is it yeah and it's this kind of energetic Matrix idea you know that the core of every person has the potential to become this big beautiful kind of divine you know uh beautiful Matrix reaching out with love and Good Vibes for everybody yeah that's the idea in the end right but it's so I think it's hard it's so abstract that I think when you first hear it you're like what yeah but I think that's the idea like you know I mean we've been I've heard this discussion so many times and like every time I hear it it opens another another door opens you know something maybe like 30 more times so if we can do another one that'll knock it down to 29 and you know and listen I every time it's a lifetime taken off that's what they say okay good let's knock one off man you know like I'm down to I'm down to 37 more lifetimes not bad not bad pretty good pretty good if you think of all of eternity yeah you know at least I got a number you know no the thing that's interesting about it is they you know when they again this is a thing for me I came from different things before I got into this Tibetan with this thing and this is what they ask you to meditate on everything yeah you ask me to meditate and go back to this and then imagine it coming out there's this big Uber rock star Divine energetic form called Enlightenment yeah I was like okay and I can kind of remember I was trying to start out with when Robert Thurman was on I was like there was some old magazine called what is Enlightenment I remember looking at the magazine he really trashed it deservedly so in the episode it was pretty bad but um uh and probably a little culty but um I remember that question going what is this thing supposed to be and there's a there's actually an answer it's supposed to be this right I suppose like meeting uh Lama Glenn Glenn Mullen was kind of interesting because he has that sciency part of him too I didn't realize until we did our episode with him he was an engineering student I was like okay now I know why we can talk to one another because he's because how does it work so what is it Robert Thurman's more philosophical maybe uh beautiful language poetically abstract yes yes you're like well this is what it is because I'm an engineer at heart or something yeah so it's this big energetic form really you know that uh you know I guess in Robert Thurman's thing it would be like this is the evolutionary ultimate yes end goal of every living thing to reach this place he said it numerous times not only is that the evolutionary form but that's your Birthright which I I love that idea you know as like a ground level thing right it's the it's the seed level potential of really who you are that eventually it's going to actualize itself yes for all of us yeah you know it's like it's like looking at an evolution of a human you know not an evolution but the growth of a human from child to adult like eventually you'll get to that place it's just yeah they're gonna be a seven-year-old for the next 200 years you know like the United States right yeah we're more like probably four man of course we're not terrible twos we are yeah we're never leaving either um it's a kind of an interesting thing because you're right it's a it's very optimistic it's very positive participating this thing yeah that's gonna that's gonna sound great yeah but it's very positive right yeah yeah well Eric I gotta hop here in a minute um so let's let's wrap it if um you know so our idea is that we have other things to talk about we have sex and love to talk about too but we'll maybe do one thing on enlightenment yeah I think yeah before we talk about sex and love all right so we can come we can we can we can return as uh desirous deities yes that's right yes and then we will we will perfect the uh entwinements of in the Perpetual state of bliss and emptiness and in loving entwinedness right going on forever but reaching out with love and compassion for all beings that's that's correct just just like that that's the Buddhist tantric end goal that's it that's it all right Eric well as usual thank you so much my friend this is uh you know far more of a a kind of a one-way lecture today but uh I always talk though I mean I was like we did but I I like you know I I like I like this because I'm you know even though I'm from you know I'm more familiar with people than probably than most people who are listening but less familiar than yourself so uh it's always a good opportunity for me to kind of refine things I always love this thing because we throw things out between one another and you get to hear how the other person thinks about it yeah yeah no it's the same with an audience right you get to hear other people in the audience yeah and speaking of of hearing how the audience thinks uh you know we certainly love to hear hear from people so hit us up at gin and Tantra gmail.com hit us up on Instagram and Jenna Tantra you know we're going to be uh making a little bit more of an effort to kind of do things on YouTube so if you're watching us on the video um on whatever platform you're watching us on you know make sure to give us a thumbs up and a like and a subscribe and you know share with us or share our work with other people we definitely appreciate the you know the audience um you know and if you have you know any questions comments concerns things you'd like for us to cover you know please feel free hit us up leave a comment wherever the comments are left I'm sure it'll make it back to me somehow some way by the grace of our Spirits you know just kind of like we're trying to make a community thing here in part two we're both community-minded people in that way and like even this whole series of episodes was because someone in our community went through something yeah yeah so if you're going through now then reach out yeah we never know it I mean and honestly like death is a part of life I know that's the sound it sounds odd but like it's true so we're always going to be dealing with you know loss of some type or transition of some type so why not do it consciously you know why why pretend as if it's never going to happen because I think a lot of us live our lives as if the end is is not nigh but it is Bill Nye the Science Guy and no even for him he's not gonna go on forever he's not going to go on forever so we try to be these like um psychospiritual scientists oh that's a very Bobby T phrase that's right that's right and uh yeah we do our best so uh as always Eric thanks for for doing the work audience thank you so much for listening and watching and you know however you're consuming this for Eric this is Daniel we'll catch you on the next one peace