[Music] hey G and yes distracted me Daniel you [...] got me I didn't do anything I didn't do anything had that little Daniel chuckle [...] hey fell and tears those of like those of us who like our spirituality with a Twist all right so we're back um we had started uh really talking about practicalities of Yung this was based on sort of a thought from our Daniel who said hey let's look at some of the the Practical side of this what exactly would you like practically do if you want to try to have some of these experiences that Yung is referencing and so we got to two of his ideas one is called active imagination which is a kind of an inner journeying thing where you imagine yourself kind of going into your own inner world it's a visualization thing I think like we were talking about last time Daniel he would sometimes visualize like going into a cave or something like going under the ground right and then um you'll see what you'll see but hopefully you'll meet some figures for Yung this would be inner archetypes and uh then you can chat with them and see what they have to say and have your experience of this and this is this idea of finding your way into Jung's notion of this thing called the collective unconscious right you find yourself into this space so that's the active imagination thing and we kind of talked about how to do that a little bit and then we got to the point where um we talked about some of the effects of this and certainly one of the things that Yung believes happens is that the external world will start to will start to respond to you too this is really interesting in him as you connect to these archetypes internally you'll kind of connect to them externally too for you this is kind of a you know I guess a kind of a scientific mystery an empirical mystery that this happens you know um that as you connected to deeper parts inside yourself those same kinds of things will respond in the external world so he calls this a kind of a synchronicity you know what you find what you tap into inside yourself will be mirrored by the external environment which raises a huge question of like what the hell exactly is going on in this crazy place we call the Universe um to make this happen but you know it's certainly something that he thinks is very real and we've had a bunch of episodes around this where we've talked about this issue and you and I Daniel we both think this is a thing too right as you tap into deeper parts of yourself the universe will respond for whatever that means right right that's why he sometimes uses this phrase objective psyche to talk about this part internally as well as externally because it's a little bit something Beyond yourself it's really not just you anymore because the external world starts to respond too so I mean that's interesting you know and almost okay so we talked about that a lot and this idea of synchronistic phenomenon will start to appear and that got us to talking about one of his big Ideas which is this thing called seven sermons to the dead which is just an illustration of this happening in his own life so that's where we were planning on like picking up if you're following these episodes along and so we're on seven sermons to the dead um this was kind of a piece of I don't know if you're familiar with this thing are you familiar with this thing Daniel have you heard this I'm not no Okay We're not gonna do a whole thing about it we were talking a little bit off mic which is how you messed my [...] up coming into this intro which I really can't blame you no to blame myself choked in the intro but you did have that little Daniel smile and it always throws me you know what I mean that magnetic Daniel smile how can someone like you get a little Tongue Tied sure the listeners and the viewers all know the Jan Daniel RZ you know you can't do anything about that that's right yeah it's you it's I'm I'm a rard yeah um so uh uh seven servs to the dead so what happened was it's a piece of like sort of um channeled writing almost what you might call automatic writing or channeled writing and at the time that it got inspired he was uh you know I should say even within his whole family weird stuff started to happen these kinds of synchronistic phenomenon so it's kind of given an example like he was tapping into these things inside of himself and then weird things started to happen within his environment and then he just all of a sudden started like having this inspired channnel writing thing which ends up being this piece so as far as at the time his kids saw some ghosts that were like floating around the place and they started saying there's weird stuff happening you know I think his daughter saw some female figure walking um so it was ghost-like things spirits and then um uh his daughter had her blanket snatched off the bed but it wasn't obvious who did it so strange things were happening his son Drew pictures with which referenced yung's inner visions that he was having on his own but he had never told told the family about it so his son was drawing similar pictures you know of things that he would have really no way of knowing Yung was exploring these images inside himself and there's you know some examples of this finally I guess the doorbell rang and no one was there and there were some knocks and things and it was very synchronistically freaky and then Yung felt this inspiration and he started doing this automatic writing I think it was like almost immediately after the doorbell started to ring and he heard this sort of words start to appear in his mind which went um we have come back from Jerusalem where we have found not what we sought and so it's kind of a provocative phrase it's like and I think for him he was like I wouldn't come up with a phrase like this it's so odd right we have come back from Jerusalem where we found not what we sought so in some ways it looks like it's part of yung's Crisis he went through or his transformation he went through where he was moving away from sort of more aspects of his Christian background or his more straight Judea Christian background they're probably things that were a little bit more unorthodox christianities like Gnostic christianities and things like that and in this automatic writing that he did he he eventually attributed it to a kind of a IC Sage from Alexandria which was sort of like a gnostic stronghold back 200 ad or something like that so he he just started feeling like he was channeling this writing and I think when people have looked at it it doesn't look like he did it with calligraphy pen so he did it calligraphic and I I mean when people have talked about it that I listened to people kind of comment on this it doesn't really look like his own handwriting certainly seems different somehow you know now again whatever that means whether he had actually channeled these figures who you know of the synchronistic thing or he was tapping some part inside himself or he had hit some archetypal world we can discuss right but any case this did happen and so this was sort of a kind of a gnostic channeling experience for him he felt like he was probably channeling some kind of Gnostic Sage but I think even for him he wasn't like it's not obvious how he wanted to frame it for himself he wasn't sure if he was thinking something in Gnostic inside of himself that he had found or whether he was doing something external though obviously he's open to these different possible explanations around this so I can talk about the central message in the thing but you have anything you want to say about this first Daniel about Noel writing or anything okay well it builds to something that I kind of knew we were gonna end up talking about I from the very moment that this idea of this whole little series of experimential episodes came up so the central message of theeven sermons to the dead without doing all of it is a description that one has to differentiate oneself from the mass so the weird part which I didn't expect last time we recorded on this Daniel was that we I think we had even more spontaneous agreement about this that maybe what I anticipated going in that uh you know there's a certain question of like separating once from the mundane and we end up talking a lot last time we recorded about mundane appearances and D conceptions that's the way I would put it you were putting it your own way too right but that you know is a central message of this whole of this whole work so he says this has to happen to achieve one's own individuality and you guys big into this idea of what's called individuation where people kind of establish their own core identity for themselves um there's kind of two sides to it when he talks about it one side is to differentiate yourself from sort of the social world and that's always a big deal for me so that really appeals to me in Yung that really resonates me with me and Yung but he also says you have to kind of differentiate your own psyche so you're not dominated by your own internal stuff whether it's I guess your own personal unconscious things his things from your own history and your own past or whether it's things that are maybe more within this Collective unconscious that you're not dominated by your archetypes somehow you've kind of lived within that world but you're not you're not dominated by them you know you can move within all these spaces and still feel your own individual Freedom or something like that so that's individuation it seems to be he was coming up with this idea as he was going through these experiences and it just kept kind of building for him but the idea is that you want to achieve your own individuality and then he has some quotes from here I I pulled some quotes from Seven sermons to the dead to kind of illustrate the point and it's written in a very high sty the natural striving of the creature goeth toward distinctiveness Fest against Prime primeval perilous samess sameness let me try that one again yeah the natural striving of the creature goeth toward distinctiveness and Fest against primeval perilous sameness so he's talking about I think what you see in the DST a lot this idea like you know to be an individual a person you have to be able to differentiate yourself from from the crowd from the mass and you might say the mundane conceptions and appearances of the world you're surrounded by but it's written in this fancy style now one of the things that you know I was doing all these researches on Yung as we were prepping these episodes and thinking about writing him and he does say this interesting thing he says when you get in touch with archetyp of things they talk in a very like high Style or they talk in a very high poetry sometimes it might even sound a little bit like this this could sound a little pretentious even or something right or bombastic maybe but they tend to talk in this very elevated language right and so I think that his and I think there's a truth in that right when you find the archetypes they hit kind of strong and they have powerful personalities and they talk strong so I think he felt like he probably hit something here but it also INE them into the idea that the archetypes tend to talk in this very strong powerful assertive and elevated way does that make sense to you too yeah I'm just like I'm thinking about somebody who is listening and thank you to all of the uh listeners who have sent us uh screenshots of their um Spotify wrapped for 2023 that have our podcast in the top five uh definitely appreciate the love you know it's been uh you know more than a couple so we're uh we appreciate that you know it's always an adventure because there's a million podcasts out there I was watching some show yesterday and they had like one of the characters was asking who's that and then the other character said oh I think she has a podcast and then the one guy said oh yeah everybody does doesn't everybody everybody and their brother has a podcast and their sister and their cousin and their aunt and everybody but that's that's right we're still fighting it out here we are we're still battling it so striving of the creature goth toward distinctiveness there we go so I'm I'm thinking against primeval so I'm thinking of a a audience member who is listening to this and you know trying to understand you know they're interested in in what we're saying they're interested in in Psychology in their own development salvation if you will right understanding psychologically energetically spiritually whatever probably people have a varied level of meditative practice practice of insight and things like this and so may have may not be familiar with with the concepts of archetypes number one which we've covered before but that's okay and if they are remotely familiar we could have done that a lot so I didn't bother going through no no no I'm not saying you have to I'm just I'm just covering the bases you know and if they have heard it before maybe it doesn't resonate with their own experience because they've heard it but they may not understand what it is that they're experiencing do you know what I'm saying and that even if they did experience it maybe it was brief or they didn't get a chance to have like dialogue with something that would you know what I'm saying would that that would that would give them enough opportunity to say yes or no this I can understand that higher uh higher futin language if you will as to be uh you know indicative of that kind of archetype so I just wanted to to touch on that part you know just before we I have to say for myself my archetypes don't NE archetypes in my what I would feel would be my experiences of them don't talk like uh they're from medieval times or something like that sure but I don't think they have to right I'll try to share an experience of this maybe a little bit later on yeah um that maybe I had more recently I could say two things one um there's some things I can't admit publicly yet but let me say let me say this real quick while you're Gathering your thoughts to me one of the things about it is that they speak powerfully yes they speak powerfully so whether or not they're going to sound like uh like uh they're from like Robin Hood notingham forest or whatever it is whatever this language is I wouldn't hear that in my head you know or I wouldn't have that from the archetypal experience that I had but they speak powerfully and maybe part of the experience is that you need to have the idea that this could be happening in your private moments when you like kind of tap into your own inner world and you hear like very strong opinions about things you know that might be the moment where you're actually hitting this because they talk powerfully and they have very definitive opinions so maybe that helps on some level I didn't mean to talk over here Daniel sorry about that I just was gonna get that little piece out you're good but didn't kill your flow too much um so a couple things come up number one is this idea of channeling right we talked about automatic writing right um from what I understand automatic writing is kind of like you can basically close your eyes and let your hand go you know I have to say I haven't been an automatic writing person so I can't talk from personal experience about this I'm one person I'm I'm talk I've talked to somebody who's done it okay okay so yeah yeah or they also call it astral stenography uh they can let their hand go or what they will do is they'll close their eyes and they'll see what to write okay they'll see it you know it just kind of like pops up I don't know how how it happens but it's I say this for this young thing I don't know the details of how that was for him right you know like um and I've done a decent amount of research on this listening to the MDR and listening people talk about I could look maybe for next week's episode but I don't think there's more description of this except the fact that he produced this work right so that's that's those are the two things that I've been familiar with um in in in terms of allowing yourself allowing things to kind of come through you and then come out you know and then the two aspects of the channeling and the language again somebody who I know very close to me related in some in a very particular kind of a way sorry to be so vague but it is what it is but I could verify that this person exists he definitely had varied language and I have tapes uhuh of this person who worked as a medium for the better part of a decade you know maybe 12 years 11 years and the the speech pattern would change anytime and every time that he changed whoever he was working with you know what I'm saying and the language often sounded like a lot of ye and nth and say you know what I'm saying like that so it's a little bit like what Young is doing here yeah that's how it was for him now I could say for myself when I have felt inspired from a very particular place the the shift in language like you had mentioned is is very powerful but it's also so and I don't it's GNA sound poor but it's clearly ambiguous uh okay yeah yeah because from what I understand and I have taken this from when I was uh very high that like at those moments I'm aware that I'm operating in two very distinct spaces one that's a a field of potentiality essentially and that forms are are appearing and not appearing simultaneously and I'm describing a meditation and on the other side is is this reality that we're totally in right now but one is layered over over the other one or I'm seeing through one depending on how you want to label that and that like I'm describing what I'm seeing as it is but as it is is happening simultaneously in both places at the same time so it's clear but it's ambiguous enough that the person can interpret the language that I have for themselves without being so taken by the hand down the road you're talking about maybe like channeling for another person or something right yeah yes yes but whe whether it's for somebody else or via my own archetypes coming out I I don't know the difference because I'm not that you know I'm a nuanced person I'm a subtle guy but I don't I'm not I don't have that's you know what I'm saying yeah so okay okay yeah got I'm listening yeah yeah no and so that that's the only thing that's the only thing I could say is that there is there's a language shift and that's the point that I kind of wanted to make for people who may or have less more or less familiarity with these types of states is that the language does it does change it may not be like the way that he said it but there is a deeper um a deeper meaning to it and it it it connects with what we talked about last week about breaking through the the the constant stream of of con of of chitter chatter in the mind and finding the deeper place of reflection that language however it comes out seems to kind of erupt actually like it kind of it sort of elevates from somewhere not quite sure where but it comes from somewhere it's interesting for me all I can do is like share my own experience of what's felt like this to me which is that to the extent that I felt like I've tapped into these archetypal things they've just had really strong personality so I haven't felt them to be ambiguous that doesn't mean that they may not be for somebody else or whatever sure but for me it sort of felt a little bit more like what Yung is talking about where they're like pretty strongly opinionated and they have pretty strong things to say that are like okay here it is you know like if you were if you were talking to Mars he'd probably have a pretty strong opinion of stuff you know you know so it's it's probably been a little bit more like that for me which I guess matches what you is describing I had I hadn't paid attention to this I think the first time I read his autobiography memories dreams Reflections maybe even the second but this last time this really jumped out of me and the the strength of the language really hit me and I was like yeah that does match my experience with this probably so I don't know what that means you know what I mean Different Strokes for different folks it is what it is but that did resonate with me that it was like very strong now I don't know what this means because he he credits this to some Gnostic Sage that he's identifying you know at the time in Alexandria so whether or not he's like you know he's matching that quality of those ideas and opinions right but he definitely has this notion of like which I think is such a big theme in the show and it just popped up again where he's definitely like I mean I wasn't wasn't set up or anything I was just like oh seven sermons to the dead it's the thing to talk about and it comes back to this point which is I mean obviously such a big deal for me but you know he's talks any for people have listened to more in a few episodes of this but you know he says these really strong things about this you know that there's a real problem of differentiating the individual person so the other big quote he has here with a bunch of yees and so on ye all become equal and thus is your nature maimed so it like destroys name mes your IM your Nature by becoming equal so he's saying this thing very definitively and the voices seem pretty strong whether at some point we do an episode on seven sermons of the Dead we were kind of talking about beforehand you know we'll figure out what we want to do and different things going forward but uh yeah see the point the the opinion seemed pretty strong right and it struck me like from the shower curtain of wisdom across the hall one of my quotes on there is you know kind of very Dost and it's really from Krishna mury but he says something like nature is busy creating absolutely Unique Individuals whereas culture has invented a single mode to which all must conform it is grotesque that seems to be the underlying vantage point of like seven sermons you know seven sermons uh to the dead it seems to be what they're saying which I would I wanted to hook that back up to this whole experience of experiential stuff but anyways it is interesting you know like it's a very very strong set of opinions I don't know how it felt about for him at the time I mean he's he's interesting person in that you you sort of know him there's like young Yung as you like to say Daniel Jung never gets old uh he's always Yung at heart ha and then it goes on right and you get kind of middle-aged young and like some of the stuff like what we're doing Book of Job he's writing that in the 70s right that's old young right uh so but I mean I don't know where he was at and his process of deciding what he thought about life when this thing was happening for him but obviously some really strong opinions came through yeah right and it had a lot to do with I mean what probably for him ultimately became a separating from you might say the the god of his fathers or something like that his God of he broke with this thing very massively so but the opinions came out pretty strong right yeah which I mean I wanted to talk about that idea a little bit but let me throw it back to you do you have more stuff you want to say about this I mean it's interesting yeah no I mean I think this goes along with I would imagine if you're channeling for somebody else though that would be a little bit more like okay I'm going to present you an image and that will mean something to you because you've talked about that with patients and things but that might not be an archetype that's tapping into something about that person and their life and their history it's not like tapping into Venus or Aphrodite or you know some other archetypal you know what I mean yeah I think might be a different like different energetic process different experience going on right yeah I I think at you know when when we moved um you had the case St with a woman where you saw the car or something oh yeah it had to do with the woman's mother who was a victim of sexual violence that might have actually got yeah that might be that might be more like you have Flash and an image and an inside or something but that might not be an archetype exactly cor might be something else you know yeah the question the question I I have and as I've you know studied archetypes with different people is that like are are they un Universal forces that exist inside and outside of us right at the same time and if the answer is yes then do they have any sort of like Elemental form or or repetitive type of experience you know as the experiencer you know what I'm saying and I don't know I don't have an answer I mean I know what the I know what Carl Young talks about it and these like depth psychology and and these folks say about it that they're like vague enough where they're going to look different ways for different people and and so on right that's his idea yeah and and that's that's my idea and then based on that like what what you're shown from that like it might be different per person I think I think that's true yeah and so like what comes through could it be an you know it was that image that I had of this you know woman being assaulted which was which was a true a truism that happened in her life yeah but my question then is yes it's about is this TR it's not it was it was not about is this true or not true because I try my best to detach myself from those kinds of um viewpoints because then I'll I'll start judging right away and be like Oh my God look at me I could see the past or the future whatever but in the context of this conversation I begin to wonder where it came from you know that particular thing yeah yeah that particular thing or things like that in general if you're a Buddhist philosopher they had this idea they call oh man is it disintegrated I think is the word they use but it's kind of like g r would kind of talk about this is like maybe like Quantum information all the events it's karma but the events that happened are like the energetic imprints are out there you know like in the universe around us and nature around us and that's true in physics that's how you read [...] that happened in the past right those events leave traces that you can then pick up on right in the physical world around you otherwise you wouldn't even know there's a big bang you have to see the impacts of that to refer it to infer it back right is there a bing bang well now that's getting doubted but like you picked up on something right there back and all this [...] like you know some star blew up a while ago but that information is still hurling hurdling through space right the information's out there I guess not it's concretely there like that car that backseat of that car isn't there but somewhere because that information this is information stuff right yeah age of information now right but that information is out there and you know you go to a subtle place and you have a talent and ability you tap into that [...] right that would be the Boo's explanation for it because it's it's still it's still out there as like energetic imprints right yeah not even necessarily even where they're going to be localizable in space not to go all was this it Ant-Man Quantum Mania yeah yeah right that possibly crappy movie we were talking about before last time we recorded I mean who knows where it is right but it's out there I that's a basic kind of Buddhist slant it's kind of an obscure Buddhist Theory but disintegrated this yeah they and they also I think this is something they call this and I you know I don't know much about it I don't even know if I leav in it you know they call it the akashic records you know anything that's ever happened is stored somewhere in some filing cabinet and in the Stars you know what I'm saying and there's an old liian could sound like that's a little bit maybe why I like the Buddhist stuff a little bit more because it's usually said a little bit more dry right which might suit my personality I don't want to hear about like a filing cabinet the angels are going through yeah I'm against it I mean it's cool and if you like that kind of stuff it's right yeah I mean it's a similar concept that imagery doesn't speak to me the same way I'm little bit maybe more like a physic minded person I like like there's information that dis disintegrated and it's out there though you know the actual objects are gone but the imprints of the information are there I feel more comfortable with that yeah I think anytime I've different struges for different folks you know I think anytime I've ever heard about it it's describe to me like a like a large filing cabinet you know what I'm saying or like a you know some kind of yeah yeah like like and people who they people who you know they read it they I'm gonna open the akashic records this book you know like going through the filing cabinet chapter seven you know line 13A you pooed on your pants when you were nine you know like and it felt very awkward for you yeah exactly and you you carry that shame with you today I mean it's it's it's always like that weird dance because I mean like I sometimes I'll get people will send me things I'm like well this is really new age right you know and I'll be a little cringey because I'm really more old age yes yeah new age but this is like we've had this before I don't want to judge the new age of people we love you I love you new Agy people well you know what it is different it's different it's different Aesthetics almost right yeah it's different language and it's how it hits the person and you know like I mentioned earlier it's the the way in which you can lead somebody down a pathway without giving them the exact description of the thing so that they can fill it in for themselves and it'll resonate deeper for them about this I I think in my feeling of this I don't think knowing about personal karma is an archetype I don't think that's the same thing just my own two cents okay and I don't think that like even like feeling like Elemental energies like feeling wood or fire or metal if you're doing like Chinese Cultural things or feeling you know earth and water and fire and Consciousness and space and all these things if you're being a little bit more Indian about it I don't think those are archetypes either that doesn't seem to what Yung is talking about either he's not talking about like I felt an energetic field I think those are energetic Fields they might even be more primary on some level right than what he's talking about so I have got comfortable with just seeing those as not kind of being the same thing yeah I mean there there would definitely be people who I've you know studied with who would disagree but that's the beauty of that's cool I like I I know who you're talking about and I probably disagree with them right Eric's like that's fine I already dis I already disagree with their disagreement so no problem I mean I already knew I disagree with them that's totally fine yeah yeah yeah but it doesn't certainly seem like Yung is talking about he doesn't talk about like okay I felt this force field of water energy around me right and it's not like he doesn't know that stuff he knows that stuff yeah and I from my own subjective experience I don't feel that's the same thing to feel a field of water energy I don't think that's the same as like feeling Tara's presence in your life I don't think that's the same from my perspective on it sure you know so my think ibe maybe a little bit more agrees with like what Yung is talking about but I mean again I wouldn't fight a duel over or anything sure yeah I just you know I kind of like I know how people talk about and I'm like H that isn't how I I don't think that's what Jung means right and I don't think that that's the experience he's describing he's describing something that's much more of an individualized entity that probably has all the phases in it or something it's just some water you know I mean right I mean I wouldn't you know I wouldn't fight about it or anything obviously none of this stuff is worth fighting about do you have an opinion about it um do I have an opinion about it not necessarily I mean I I feel like regardless of the medium to which you want to understand things that are difficult to describe via language you know that if they are if you believe them to be univers ially present you know to me then that's kind of an archetype you know yeah yeah yeah and so let's go through we're gonna talk about yung's experiences and then you could see like what you think about we even go through the details of his I mean we might be using the same word for two different kinds of things and there's nothing wrong with that yeah you know it's just like someone's using the word a little bit bigger okay that's cool yeah and so if if somebody feels that like you know aspects of joy and community and you know I don't know spreading of ideas is important for them and that's how they experience their Shen and their life which is a fire element type thing than that that archetype is putting influence on their life can I say that the fire element has an archetype per se I don't know but those two seem like they fit but it doesn't I don't need to for me I don't personally need to have everything perfect box this is this this is this so therefore it's that and now I can tuck it away like I don't it it doesn't yeah yeah yeah I mean for me it's probably more experiential yeah to the extent that I've meditated on these elements and phases yeah that we would do because the basic discussion is like is the water phase in Chinese medicine or the water element in Buddhist culture or something is that an archetype you know and for me like obviously like you I both have done this I've done those meditations on those things I felt like I have some experience with it but like I don't think that's an archetype like the way Yung is talking sure that doesn't mean somebody's right or wrong it's just you know however used in the language or whatever that's no yeah yeah yeah yeah um so Eric takeaway takeaways from this kind of seven sermons to the dead well I guess like you want to end it here and we're gonna pick up on the next episode right yeah yeah yeah so take away take away okay so this would be probably like a little a little clip hanger into the next episode I think it ending with this very strong statement from this archetypal Source will probably get us into what our next conversation which will be which will be something about like we'll move on to talking about a little bit back to our old friend job and answer the job and how this connects to this story because it's something that I wanted to try to tie together but otherwise I guess we'd say the conclusion is kind of a bridge between the two because we got to the idea of like active imag ination that's trying to search for these inner figures and it goes through and it kind of maybe opens a door to this inner outer connection right yeah and here's a big example of it right that once this starts happening maybe these external things in the world start to respond and here's a very concrete example of it right yeah that's what it sort of means for me do you have some other Takeaway on that I'm certainly you however you want to frame that too right no I think that's right I mean and we've kind of talked about this you know off and on maybe not in such specific ways besides last week but that like as you work on and change your own inner world the outer world around you will eventually start to reflect that so if you're meditating or doing meditating on Joy or you're meditating on gratitude or you're doing some kind of Chiang practice where you laugh a lot you're going to be more prone to seeing the world a little bit more giving a little bit more joyous a little bit more open I think that's definitely true right you know and so that yeah that that being on a psychological level you know and if you're doing or or you know energetic what however you want to describe it it doesn't matter but I think the point being is that like there is an oper there is a there is a reality in which you are more open to synchronistic external experiences B based on uh internal change internal I guess I've gone back and forth in this but I definitely go through these windows of time where I'm like the universe is talking yes talk you know and then it's there's an old line from one of the old Smith songs Back in the Day nature is a language can't you read and it's a great line um and I felt like okay yeah sometimes I feel like I haven't I might lose my sense of this at times but in these moments where there's intense emotions involved or intense archetype itivity involved yeah um then you're like oh yeah this is like it happens in love right you know Yung points that out but it happens in other strong inner experiences like these Visionary journeying experiences and then the UN will universe will be talking like pretty explicitly and I don't know why this is the case in me sometimes I lose it I lose my sense of that and other times I really have it very strongly and I would probably blame it on me more than the universe yeah you know I don't think it's the universe isn't talking it's like I'm not recognizing that nature is a language and I'm not seeing it right yeah I'm not hearing it but like in those moments where this happens you're like you know it is like kind of a goddamn the universe is talking it's like and sometimes it's screaming you know to be heard it's strange experience right but you're like no this universe is talking for sure it's really like trying to like bang some trash can Lids together and it's saying stuff yeah whether or not you hear it it'll depend but it's definitely talking a lot of times people won't pay attention and I guess through critique in Yung is a lot of times the reason people won't pay attention is they're so wrapped up in their own kind of mundane ideas about things right so this archetypal thing blows through and says hey you know uh don't be a creature that goeth towards non-d distinctiveness by this against perilous sness and don't let your inner nature be maed because that'll cut you off I that's why I take away from it does that make sense what I'm trying to say yeah I I think I I have a story strong I mean it's like and that's I guess the reason why it is it's strong experience it's like and there's a range of these things you know meditatively and otherwise but this is a very probably particular set of experiences where the universe talks loud yeah yeah there was um I taught a shamanic course uh I think January of 20 so before all the good stuff happened you know yeah yeah yeah and um one of the CL uh one of the students was a you know he's like a woodworker kind of a construction guy you know I had a couple gals in the class and in one of the classes I said okay we're going to go and and see if we can meet some kind of helper Spirit we'll call it you know and he ended up meeting a um a Jag Jaguar oh I think I remember you talking about this but go ahead yeah yeah and this Jaguar was um and I'm sure he's shared this a lot so I'm not sharing anything you know that's too you might have talked about this in a different episode but yeah tell it again because it's a good one I think yeah yeah yeah and so he had this interaction with this Jaguar that was very sensual actually like he felt like that part I don't remember yeah like like the like there was like sexual things happening and he was kind of like uh I don't know okay you know and so at this time you know previous to the class maybe a few months pre earlier than that he ended up having a little bit of a house fire and they had to move their stuff into storage while the you know place was being taken care of by the insurance and so um after class maybe the next day day after but during the week he went to the storage facility and there was a uh a a Polish gentleman from Poland thick accent who had some stuff in the locker or in the whatever facility adjacent to his and this guy's truck this big like I don't know work kind of van was in the way of his unit and so he said hey um can you move your van and the guy said yeah I I'll get to it in a little bit and so my friend went to go get some carts and and whatever and as he's coming back the guy came up to him and said hey and my friend said yeah and he's never really had conversation with this guy other than can you move your van yeah he goes uh do you want a jaguar and and my friend's like what what do you mean do I want a Jaguar he's like yeah do you want a Jaguar he's like what are you what are you saying he goes hold on I show you and so the guy Wheels around this Taxidermy female Jag Jaguar full life it's real you know he's like I he goes I can't I don't have any room for it anymore I'm moving I can't take it with me I can't sell it because it's illegal but I can give it to you if you want it he's like and you you're a big guy drive a truck I'm assuming you're a hunter and my friend's like I don't even own a gun you know like I'm not like that he's like but this was after the shamanic event right this within about 48 Hours see that's [...] synchronicity and there it is and he still has it as it his house today but the reason why I was reminded of it is because of the last point that you made and yeah the story in itself is wild and during the class I was like dude that's crazy you know like you can't make that [...] up but now that's you know that's aboutand Polish guy with the locker neck story gives you a giant stuffed Jaguar yeah you find like your inner animus uh or inner anima I should say your feminine Jaguar inside your inner Sophia appears as a Jaguar yeah and so he is a would worker and you know his his town home is kind of cool got all kinds of cool designs and he's got this Jaguar like basically in his stairway just like hanging over the thing I don't know it's impos it's heavy I don't know how he got it to be hoisted up like this but you were saying that like the this the kind of external uh synchronicities function as a reminder to what's going on on the inside and I saw it and it was cool and we we reminisce just for a moment about when that happened but I don't actually know if he takes the time to remind himself of the inner nature of that feminine deity Who manifested as a Jaguar for him at that particular time I could definitely say and yeah I don't know how we're gonna handle this maybe this is a recording for the day and then we like pick up on this next time I don't know how you but what's interesting about it is like obviously young is fascinated by this [...] that this happens right like he had a patient who was having a dream where there was a Scarab in the dream like one of these beetles you know yeah and all of a sudden there was like a flutter at the door of the window I should say of the treatment room so he walked over the treatment room I was like what's going on he opens the door and this Giant Beetle flies in ahh he was like what the [...] you know I'm sure inside of himself because this woman just had this dream about this Scarab of course we're not g to see a scare up here but it like this weird Beetle that no one would ever see in the area it's not like they were flying everywhere just weird bug flies in this giant this giant Scarab and so this is the experiences he's talking about like exactly what you're talking about with the stuff Jaguar this kind of stuff happens right yeah and this you know makes up this synchronicity book he talks about these things but I agree the trippy part is you know whether or not people will actually fully Buy in and believe it because people tend not to the um the I mean I don't know how it feels for the universe maybe the universe is like Ping its hair out out but you know because like I already told you see you know how many times you need me to tell this to you right but it is like that you know like the experience happens and then human beings as we are we forget about it in a strange way yeah even though it might be like if you really stopped and fully thought about it you'd be like oh my God this is highly unlikely and this means something but for the most part people will probably just like it'll make an impact for a short time or whatever it probably just disappears from it and then we get we get lulled to sleep by the mundanes I I have to say I think it's true yeah and especially you know and then we can talk about this maybe as more as we go along in the next episode even but especially where I mean the universe is talking loud and and I don't know it conflicts with your own ideas about things or you know especially because it's gonna we'll get to it next episode I suppose in a way but like a lot of times what what's happening is is like these archetypal figures don't necessarily like our mundane ideas no they're not necessarily into them no so we'll continue on when we get to it next episode but that's probably where we'll pick up yeah because it raises an interesting question about this whole set of exercises but I suppose that's it anything else you want to do before we seems like an episode yeah no I mean you know for people you know when you get response from your environment take heed you know it it doesn't happen often and it's there for a reason so I don't know what that reason is but even if you can't figure the reason out per se and sometimes I think the reason doesn't matter that much it's but it it it helps to show you things it helps to be a reminder that it we're not limited to the reality that we perceive on a daily basis well at the very least in Yung and I think this is true is these are the moments where something important is happening sure something important is happening so how many times do you want to get like you know like get the slap in the face at something important is happening and I guess maybe the thing before we totally go is um in thinking about this over the podcast over the past year so I think about this in my life a lot I like the idea of this kind of universe sometimes I forget about it you know but I try not to but I like the idea that the universe is like this yes that's a weird thing to say because is it like this or not I don't know right on some level but the fact that you have a vision of a jaguar and then some Rando dude gives you a giant stuff Jaguar that seems like the universe does this thing and Yung was I suppose open enough to recognize like there's something weird happening here that's hard to know entirely what it means but there's some kind of feedback loop happening yeah between our own experiences and what the universe will then like show to us back and I suppose like I've had enough of this where I'm like I I trust this stuff and believe in it or at least I try to you know right so anyways and but on top of that it's also like I like that idea I like the idea of living in an interactive Universe I think that's great I think that appeals to me somehow do you know what I'm trying to say yeah it just I mean I like the idea more fun it's a more fun universe that's right yeah that's much more fun than like you know a un that's like some materialist big dead universe that you know whatever I don't believe in that Universe right yeah all right well we did it I think it's good right sounds good to me yeah yeah uh any last stuff or we're ready to roll we're ready to roll we're ready to roll okay we get to think about these things yeah exactly all right Eric well as always thank you so much my friend thank you uh audience thank you guys for listening you know some people been rocking with us for a few years now and some people just popped on yesterday so whether you're uh a newbie or OG we appreciate the the love and support you know uh thanks for making us in your one of your top podcasts in Spotify if if that's how you consume us and if you're checking us out on Apple podcast go ahead and leave us a review it definitely helps out the show if you're watching us on YouTube you know like comment subscribe or don't comment or don't subscribe but just like that works also uh we definitely uh you know we appreciate all the feedback from everybody if you want to hit us up feel free to hit us up on Instagram Jin and Tantra podcast or hit us up via Gmail at Jin and Tantra gmail.com and if you happen to know us personally then you could send us a text message and say hey that episode was terrible do a different one you know whatever we're down we're here for it all we like all the all all the love it definitely helps uh as this is a labor of love we so love to get it back so uh from us to you we appreciate it for Eric this is Daniel we'll check youall on the next one peace