[Music] hey fellow G and tears those those of us who like our spirituality with a Twist um okay so we're we got into this idea of doing uh this DS concept of the nine obstacles these are nine things in life that can kind of get in your way and genuinely [...] things up and it's also uh d i we're talking pre- beinging on mic it's also kind of the idea for maybe a little book for us we've been talking about doing a little JY and Tantra Book for a while and maybe this will be part of the form of the book so this is multitasking I think yes this is it's a little bit of like yeah public brainstorm so yes the episode and and we were joking if you want to get in the book send over a comment that's right it makes it in there right yeah we could just do a page of comments just randomly I mean you know whatever so these guys suck that's right that guy's so repetitive and boring all right guy so handsome what's he doing there I won't make a say which one of us I'll leave that that's right that's right all right so so we did obstacle one which had a lot to do with like fear and insecurity and uh I in a realistic way kind of the scarier parts of life um yeah obstacle number two um in the in a simple phrase it would be sort of being smothered by parental demands is the way they put it in the old DS books that we're referencing MH and basically people being kind of crushed by the demands of their family of origin and their parents and the idea that you have to break away from this so I had a an amazing story about this which I guess might be my lead I can see if I G permission for it to be in a book I think maybe we talked about in the episode we did before on this but I went to this very unusual party it was a small group of people and the idea was that people would talk about some major point of transition in their lives and some people even dressed in costume to represent that period of their life and the Amazing Story came from one of the attendees at the party and she was talking about going to med school and at a certain point she just realized I don't think she really even fully got how unhappy she was obviously on some level she was unhappy with it and she said in in a lot of situations she found herself disagreeing with what the standards of treatment were and she had arguments with people who were higher up in the food chain and her you know supervisors and you know as a resident where she was saying like I wouldn't recommend that to my grandma I wouldn't recommend that to a family member why are we doing this to people you know sure so she's having a lot of issues with it I think on some level I've talked to a couple people who know her about this and they were like yeah there was family pressure involved I think she downplayed it a little bit but certainly part of it was expectation you know of family things she her family who were immigrants from another country they came here they were you know there were Ambitions around that for the kids and so she found herself in med school and the trippy thing is at a certain point she was getting sicker and sicker and sicker like she was getting physically ill to the point where even like the Western medical tests were coming back Really negative so it wasn't just what we sometimes call like a samator disorder where it was just psychological and the medical tests were all coming back within normal limits but the the tests were coming back too and they thought maybe she had a pituitary tumor and you know it was getting quite serious and then at some point in the biggest most dramatic part she completely lost her ability to see like she lost her eyesight wow gone and so it was a medical mess and a bit of a medical mystery but I mean obviously there were diagnostic indications that were going okay there's something seriously wrong it wasn't just the symptoms which can happen right you know you and I deal with cases like this uh you know psychologically dramatic things can happen to the body but usually don't find any damage right right but in this case it wasn't just that there was also damage being done to the body which can happen too right in Chinese medicine we talk about the internal causes and you know the the emotions are the internal causes and they can damage the body so anyways this this it was amazing story Daniel and it hit this this climactic point where she was just like I can't do this anymore I can't go to med school I can't do it and she just stopped it and went on and decided that she was going to go more into like the social sciences sociology anthropology those kinds of things which was obviously not what her parents wanted they wanted her to be a doctor and within three months everything was gone all the symptoms disappeared so she was cured within three months and it was just a question of her like resisting and fighting off what the expectations of her going in so I thought well that's a hell of a story and I knew we were going to do these episode so I went and I asked her you know we were getting some wine or whatever and I said do you mind if I share this I'll do it anonymously of course and she was like cool do it and I thought okay that's my lead story in this yeah because that gets you about as dramatic as you can get into something like this right obviously it was it wasn't just wrecking her life it was destroying her inside and uh emotionally and then destroying her body you know I was thinking about that I was talking with my son about Jesus yeah we had done these episodes on Jesus yeah yeah he's very anti-christian more so than I ever was or are I don't know where it comes from he has some funny Karma he's very against it like he's been very definitive on that and I'm like well back it up a little bit you know yeah you're you're 10 just well he's 11 now but still you know the right of passage is still coming right so I was like take it easy and uh and I was say well you might like Gnostic Jesus what about Gnostic Jesus and he was like well what's that about and I was trying to say well it's more why you get the philosophical teachings right as opposed to just the story and I was reminded that one from uh the Gospel of Thomas it's one of my favorite ones where uh the quote goes if you bring out that which is within you what you bring out will save you if you do not bring out that which is within you what you do not bring out will destroy you and it's kind of an incredible quote about like authenticity sure asking my son like what do you think this is about and he was like wasn't quite sure I said well if you think about it this way and maybe I even talked a little bit about this lady who' gone through this thing you know if it gets that inauthentic it'll eat you up from the inside sure right as a spiritual teaching so that was the example I felt like I would probably kind of lead with in this and do you have one that you want to share uh a story not particularly a story but I think I was thinking about this as you know you were talking and what comes to my mind immediately is the you know the breaking the chains of our own familial lineage you know and that seems to be there's Pro you know probably something maybe I'll save for the for the written version of this conversation but I think you know my mom grew up in a you know we're they were immigrants you know grew up in a very kind of religious household very strong culture you know and and there's many people who have this but the the good part about culture I think is that it provides a network for people to like grow within you know and learn things that are you know shared by other people who they look like whom they share their life with and probably up until recently never left most people never moved like this you know I mean I mean before that before we were nomadic but once we've been kind of you know relatively civilized this was what you were so this is how we celebrate birthdays this is how we celebrate life and celebrate you know the passing of it and everything else so that was like something that you were sort of born within and you could grow into as life grew and then you passed that down to your children and so on and so forth however this is also unfortunately known as conditioning yeah yeah you know and so having this responsibility upon yourself via your family definitely can lead you as I think Society is growing a little bit more at least towards I'll say an enlightened State I know very far far from it on the whole but at least you know the whole is sum of the parts and the individuals are waking up to like I don't want this for myself this doesn't feel authentic this the Shen the spirit the soul is speaking you know for the some people more than others but they're saying that's not me like the story of that woman that you just brought up that's not me I know what my family wants but I can't I literally can't do it it's killing me you know and so she has to wait unfortunately for her she had to go through something really difficult in order to realize that but I think some people might realize that sooner and be like no I'm just not doing that at all I'm not even going down that road and so breaking the the chains of the familial of the her you know the the inherited kind of not obstacles but like Tendencies if you will that this is absolutely part of that kind of thing and then I think it's really important actually to start maybe not start there but have it on your mind as like I have to go through things that I am part that are literally part of me you know part of what I was born Within and sometimes they're not even conscious actually it has to be sort of brought to your attention but all the things in order to help yourself gain more power of your own decision makings and your own reactivities in this way this is part of it you know figuring out who it is that you actually are outside of what you are told that you are by even your parents or your aunts and uncles or whatever culture you're in does that make sense yeah and I felt yeah like it's yeah yeah it does and I guess it dep it might depend a little bit on like each of our individual experiences I definitely felt some of this on a personal level I don't know how it was for you my mom wanted me to go to Western Medical School for sure and there was always this push in that direction and my dad had this idea of going to Corporate America and that everyone should just go because he saw it associated with a kind of a job security which now seems very ironic right but his time he felt like that was the case and then you get a reement package and be secure like we talked about in the previous episode I think he was scarred by insecurity right yeah and then theya of the fam lineage like that you maybe carry those things in you we talked about from that point of view too you know it's obviously an important idea for you in the shamanistic sense of things right you carry those things so those were the kind of the pressures that I felt and I I mean I knew I wasn't going to do those things at a certain point but I did feel like I had to resist and I was very struck by you know these stories of kind of of resisting this I mean that did matter to me you know and some of them you know the more inspiring ones what hit me in this little section over here is like the Buddhist story has this quality to it right where it's a story of a guy who resists his father at least in part right from the very moment of his birth his father wants him to be a king from the very moment his father is the king if you don't know the story right so his father's the king who is in this family sometimes the story is more magical Buddha comes out as this special being from the very beginning and right even as a baby he's walking around and like there's stories like this uhuh pops out of the womb he points to the heaven he points to the earth I will unite everything I'm you know like that's a magical story but some of them are more realistic you know in the sense of like okay here's a person who's born into this Royal lineage and his father no doubt wants him to be a king and you know a lot of times the backstory is that his father sees the astr olers right when his son is born and they say well the charts kind of say two things could happen he could become a great ruler and you know have this incredibly expansive Kingdom or he'll be a spiritual teacher and his spiritual teaching rules will expand and that's obvious you know his father's a king so it's clear what he wants him to do not the second one and so you know the whole backstory of the story is him trying to set up the life within the palace sometimes it's told a little bit like it's Aladdin or something in Jasmine like she's just locked in the palace and never gets to go out or something if you seen the cartoon you know sometimes it's like that I'll protect him from the world completely so he doesn't have any negative experiences and he doesn't decide he's going to be a spiritual teacher The Aladdin version of the story but um whatever I mean you could whether or not you believe in that kind of like Aladdin part you don't even need it it's obvious that his father wants him to be a king right and he's kind of angling in that direction at a certain point Buddha has to break you know and disappoint his father M and then it's way way back in the day but when I first heard these stories I was a teenager and it was Joseph Campbell right yeah Joey C and he was you know talking on you know public television and he was going through the Temptations of the Buddha and the one was around kind of desire you know all these beautiful figures appear to him am I going to be like entranced by desire and one was around fear maybe the fear one came first you know the Demons of Hell come come flying in on you so it's fear it's desire but then the third one was like social responsibility you're going to let your family down you're not doing what other people need from you like that was the CER one and I remember hearing that as a teenager going huh that's deep actually you know it was a little bit easier to relate to those than even the ones that you get maybe in our Catholic or Christian upbringing which are a little bit more kind of out there you know they're not as obvious Temptations you right right they're still deep I'm not saying they're not you know Satan takes Jesus to the mountain and says jump off and God will save you and he says Don't Tempt the Lord your God I mean they're still deep you know but uh you know this was kind of a story that I can more relate to as a teenager I went oh yeah I could imagine something like that to feel that familiar pressure you know to have to do things even in ways that are more subtle but from what you're talking about it doesn't seem like you felt that very much right I did not but I mean I came because my mom carried that pressure with her she she did that for herself oh so she felt that she felt that pressure broke with it she got it she broke it I mean it was it was insane for her and that's in the episode that we did together right sure and briefly for yeah for those who you know have never heard it like you know they my mom came here with the family and she was about 13 and she was the first one to speak English so she was responsible for all of the everything to get the family acquainted do all the paperwork everything you know yeah I've heard that story before from like kids who come here the first ones to learn English I've heard that from students yeah fames from other countries and things yeah but she was also like a budding Yogi you know she wanted to learn yoga postures and meditation and things like this and when she finally you know they knew she was going to go to school college because everybody else you know was going to get married very young and she was like no I'm not doing that probably because she had other boyfriends or something too you know but she didn't want that for herself she went to school and numerous times within the first like month of her being there her dad and or her brothers would literally go to her dorm take her stuff pack it in the car and drive it back home so she had to do this over and over and over again and then even one of her brothers didn't talk to her I don't know how long it was 10 years after she graduated not because he was particularly mad about anything she did it's what she didn't do she didn't become a lawyer she became a nurse and that bothered him oh really okay yeah because of the obvious money advantages of being a lawyer and it's not the why because it would be more beneficial for the family family you know what I'm saying and so like there's there's this so she B you know she carried the the brunt of that burden and so us being the children of her we didn't get any of that you know not to mention that she married outside of the culture and so my brother and I were you know even you know they're just like okay whatever are you kids are not fuckups all right that's probably good enough you know like we got not in jail you're not like destitute yeah we can't ask much out of you you know and then our and then our my parents got divorced when I was young so my family felt bad you know for us because nobody else was and so yeah there was no pressure at all yeah I wonder about that like like so I think my son is probably my daughter are the first ones to not feel that in our little lineage right cuz we're were talking with my I was talking with my son over the weekend again and he just said something like you know it's an interesting family situation because there's nothing for me to rebel against exactly because I can do whatever I want and I'm kind of supported generally and I was like yeah yeah that's kind of by Design you know and we'll see what happens as he gets older you know you might figure out things you want to rebel against later obviously sure that's natural enough but you know hopefully not as much and then we were talking and I said you know it's kind of a Zen thing want to get to the spirituality of all of this one of my favorite things from shanu Suzuki I think it's in Zen M beginner's mind just in that one but he talks about like putting a fence around the bull and if you put a fence around the bull the first thing the bull is going to do is charge the fence right but if you don't put a fence at all the bull might stand in that exact same spot because the bull would just like hey there's no fence no one's bother me I'll just chill here right you know so that's a little bit kind of the attitude behind this the minut you put that fence up people are feel like that need to challenge that boundary which is interesting you know and we had like kind of a long conversation about like that feeling and I was like yeah I mean that is the goal whatever you want to do we'll try to support you in it you know he loves chess so we have realistic conversations about what it means for him to be a chess player yeah and you know who knows how good you're gonna be at something like that that's kind of like wanting to be a professional baseball player or something he's pretty good though he is good and he was number one in the state for a while now he's not I think that like is a dagger through his heart no it's not he's okay with it he's okay with it he seems to like do okay even when he's not doing as great because he loves it he definitely has the the what is the LTG right Love of the Game um but you know I like okay well you know I don't know if this gonna work out for you or not but you know it could always be a part of your life and I'm G support you in doing it it's obviously gonna make him a better person yeah so I don't know I didn't I didn't get that growing up for sure you know I can't remember if we talked about in the last episode I loved music growing up and my I was talking with somebody about it recently maybe it was Ryan Davenport and my dad would come in and he would just be like you suck and I would be like dude I'm just practicing this piece he'd be like no you're terrible and it was his way of discouraging me because you thought I thought I was that wasn't obvious well that does sound a little discouraging nothing it was his way of insulting me oh okay got it all right yeah that makes sense no I think he had a it was I think there was a philosophy behind it what I was trying to get to but that's true that does sound a little discouraging just on the surface I have to read between the lines yeah um he wasn't a subtle man on this point but he went out of his way to do it it was like I didn't even ask you to listen to this [...] yeah um but it was more like he he felt like he wanted to discourage me from doing this thing because he was so afraid I tried to do something professional in that range and it wouldn't work out and I get hurt and disappointed or I think the insecurity part you know that I would be financially vulnerable and so on so anyways you know I think with my son I'm like well listen you know you probably have to have a backup plan but you know we'll try to help you figure out how to do this I'll try to help you figure out how to do it so I know I guess people are listening or have different stories around this for sure yeah right I guess the other one I wanted to mention real quick that made an impact on me when I was younger was from you know one of our favorite psychologists on the show Carl Rogers we love our Carls and young and Rogers and so he had this case study sometimes I think share it with students I read it in the book of his case studies back in undergrad psych and it just hit me like really strongly it's called the case of Ellen West it wasn't really his patient it was sort of I guess a well-known case study that had gone terribly terribly wrong and they brought in other clinicians to comment on it so they went through sort of the case notes and said what might we have done differently to not have this case end in tragedy no reason to hold off till the end like it's about a young woman who like takes her own life so you know it's a terrible case study and Carl Rogers is looking at it and of course he's a modest person you know he's say I don't know if I could have totally solved this but I did read through it and the one thing that always hit that hit me so strongly in the case which always gets to me when I see patients is um with for this Ellen West every time time she tried to do something like what that lady did I'm not going to med school no anytime she tried to like Rebel back against the family demands they kind of crushed her and it was always from this point of view of like good intentions you know no what you're doing isn't right there's a better plan for you you're not seeing this clearly no and they would talk around of it or maybe more forcefully try to get her out of it and it happened over and over and over again so she would try to go through and say okay and go and study this in school and they talk her out of it or she tried to do something else her life they talk her out of it and I think it hit a it hit a pinnacle where she had fall in love with this guy who was an artist and she really loved him and she really loved art and so she really wanted to be with him and ultimately there was a lot of familial pressure that was put on her to break this relationship up and go back into the family fold and you know she would every time this would happen Rogers notices the pattern she would fall into depression they would medicalize it as the family because they're like okay uh they weren't looking at it from the from themselves obviously they were doing what was the wise thing to do making the wise choices there must be something wrong with her in terms of a mental illness and so taking her in to be seen right and it kept getting medicalized you know so in this thing where they finally kind of force her to end this relationship uh she obviously in this case got extremely despondent and fell into like you know major depressive episode and in the end took her own life at the end of it and I remember reading that one as a student and just going okay yeah I could see how things like that can play themselves out you know and I again like I maybe I had some sensitivity from my own life but certainly you see cases like this lady I saw at the party you know the Carl Rogers case in this situation I can't if I talked about another one that a patient shared with me we were talking about this issue and she told me one from her own life where um she was involved with this guy who was Greek it was kind of like what happened maybe with your mom you know uh this guy was outside the family she's Latino and so you know they just didn't approve of this and they had they had some kind of family business and eventually to get him to break the relationship up they were like okay we're going to like force you out of the family business if you don't break up with this person like you know you know we're staying within our group and basically you're going to have to like function within the family and follow the direction of the family you know and so uh eventually he did you know I think that was the thing that kind of broke him he had other pressures on him but when they were like okay we're financially cutting you off and we're cutting out of the business something happened within him probably back to obstacle one he felt insecure right what we were talkinging about before the insecurity and so then he went back and uh you know did what the family said and broke up then she said she saw him a year later and you know she was saying he was a good-looking guy you know Lively and when she saw him the next time he had put on a bunch of weight he was obviously looked like he was maybe drinking being more self-destructive and she thought well this is tragic and then we had a conversation about the Carl Rogers think and it's like oh yeah this is what happens you know when people get broken in this way and obviously Carl Rogers is very you know sensitized to that kind of question of authenticity exctly what the lady was talking about in the party if you lose your authenticity you can you know like you can get really sick so I'm thinking of somebody whom I'm related to and who's definitely having a difficult time in their life as I feel like many young men are during this time right there's less men significantly and that the trend is going in One Direction only there are far more women in college than men like that's just um and you know there's just a whole lot there's a whole host of things right Jordan Peterson has a lane in society because he's talking to despondent men who don't have strong role model or who don't have some kind of internal motivational factor and some like penciled neck whack ass pseudo psychologist is their is their Guru you know what I'm saying like that's Jordan penis that's your description of Jord Jord Jordan penison you know I don't I don't respect uh any of his work other than the fact that like it's very basic and um there is some some value in just saying in stating the obvious so For Those whom have found it beneficial okay that's cool you know like that's the death dealing with the security this the the um how we talked about it last episode like the food andsecurity type of mentality you know you need to work you got to show up and that's important but my my question and I real quick I don't want to kill your flow but you know you and Christian did those episodes that were sort of more on your men's Retreats right yeah and I almost sometimes feel like part of this podcast I would like to be reaching out to the male audience reaching out to everyone yeah but to the male part of the audience to say there's another way to do this you don't have to go around this Jordan Peterson route right because ultimately he's like if you don't know anything about him he's very Niche like I've talked with people and a lot of people like I never heard of this guy but within a certain part of the world he's an important figure right especially for you know people who feel uncertain maybe dealing with issues of self-confidence male people right you know younger men and I I I just want to give you kudos for the Christian episode and also just kind of like point point that out because I I it's a good thing you all are doing and I hope that that works in these other episodes too just say hey you don't have to go around that route very conservative yes very politically conservative activist on some level correct so he's sort of pulling people far to the right yes anyways I didn't mean interrupt your flow but I just wanted to kind of talk about that to talk about the episode and for that context you know so you know he's a bit of a a you know fire starter for some people who need that and so there's benefit in that right I'm not going to say he's useless I'm going to just say I don't I don't respect that kind of only only contributing to the Bottom Rung you know what I'm saying like there's more than one Rong and so the discussion Beyond just simple turning yourself into a good worker is not the end of the conversation and I think that he knows better I know that he knows better you know I don't know tangibly but I'm assuming so with his level of Education that he knows that there's more but whatever so I have some of these kind of young men who are you know related to me familiarly who I feel like as we were discussing have also been maybe broken in a way you know by I don't know if there was relationship trauma if there was they wanted to get into a program that they couldn't get into and so they said [...] it I want to hang it up and just piss off and play video games and you know whatever you know so we've identified that that's that's part of a problem that could crush someone's spirit you know and and not Empower them to become them their authentic self you know and so they fall back into like the next rung below which is probably living at home doing some medial job that doesn't require a lot of responsibility and then living substant off of you know whatever Ramen and uh I don't know bong hits you know um really getting more and more bitter I mean it's not a good thing you know no it's not but my my question and you know we could have a discussion because I've thought about this a lot and maybe people know people like this you know who are our audience and so I'd love to hear from people if they have this in their life or their family or they know stories um how would you how how how would you and I mean say you is in like Eric the person not like the proverb you like how would you approach some someone like this if that was kind of the case you know that was your it's not going to be your son CU he's motivated at the age of nine with chess so like it's not like you know but like if it was a nephew of yours or something like this you know that had kind of gone through life and never really found a niche for themselves and is now in their you know mid to late 20s early 30s looking like the life is kind of Bleak you know like you can't say oh well you know what they're really good at like DJing or they love XY Y and Z it's just kind of like no no I couldn't tell you what they're like they're just doing yeah that's a weird one for me because I am interested in I'm interested in it sounds like a weird thing to say you have to be careful you say it I find Teenage Kids psychologically fascinating I was gonna say I'm interested in teenage kids but that sounds weird you didn't say that didn't say that no I find them psychologically fascinating because it's such this it's this window of like identity formation yeah we get to the psych stuff like this is the Eric Ericson window of identity formation I think we were talking about that a little bit uh Ryan dport and I did an episode you know where Daniel was away on his Retreats right and we did talk about this teenage years and this identity formation and I I think you know in my interactions with younger relatives or even like the kids of like family friends and things like that it's really been like trying to encourage them for the things that they kind of love that are more intrinsic you're already talking about someone who seems like they've lost that sense oh for sure but like I don't know like I've tried to in my interactions with people within my life patience I don't know it's an interesting call I don't know if I had a lot of patients that fit exactly into that mold it just didn't seem to happen that way it hasn't happened that way for me that hasn't been my client base you know but I I mean the one thing I say is like you're looking for something that strikes intrinsic passion within people you know right and then that's the sort of the search for the authentic thing that's with my son with chess why I'm so encouraging whether he'll be a professional chess player or not you know that's a [...] crap shoot for sure but the idea that you have something that you feel passionate about I think you need that somehow right yeah yeah as a tool of like self-esteem right I I we didn't know we were G to talk about this part but it is kind of crazy you know my my first kid was a daughter and in having her I did get aware of like God there really are different social pressures they're experienc by you know U girls and boys growing up in this culture where for the girls really the emphasis and and Alina is very honest about this it's kind of like are you pretty you know how pretty can you make yourself look right can you poe just the right way on Instagram to like catch the right angle you know like this kind of stuff and then also the question of like social skill can you navigate through complex social environments and like do yeah and I wasn't prepared for that at all I mean I had grown up with a brother I hadn't grown up in the household with any girls I was sick when I was a teenager so I didn't get this world in that way I felt like you know from the boy side though you have to try to be good at something otherwise it's really bad for yourself team yeah it's more Merit based for sure yeah it's Merit based and so I guess the thing I would try to look at for those folks is like we have to start getting something that you can feel good about yourself with right Clinical Psychology wise it reminds me of the Alfred odler problem so um he's interesting in that Jung kind of admired him too and would use his stuff as well so I got interested in him a little bit through Yung though I learned a little about him anyways but he you know kind of has this thing where you have to work on your self-esteem right and if you have low self-esteem it's pretty hard to do anything yeah now anyone can have low self-esteem that's true we're not just talking about young men oh yeah but you know the idea is that you have to do things that you can feel proud of otherwise you can end up in situations of avoidance which it sounds like that's what you're describing yeah I give up I'm going to avoid life correct right corre or conditions of dependency I'm just gonna rely on this other person to protect me right or you know on the paradoxical side situations where I'm going to prove myself by like dominating others so he has that as an idea too I'll build my own self-esteem by like standing on your head yeah like a bully bully and yeah these kind of artificial ways of like I'll boost my own ego by making you feel worse right you know I'm not actually inflating myself I'm lowering you yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm not improving myself I'm making you seem crappier to the other people around us so we can all make you look bad so I feel better about myself yeah so he kind of he he points those things out as like strategies of what people do when they feel bad about themselves right it sounds like that's an avoidant thing and then the answer in the psych thing is you gota like set some goals Ian Jordan Peterson talks this way to be honest right but you gota like set some goals things that you can kind of start to achieve and feel good about yourself that's a whole Jordan Peterson like clean your room you know do these kind of mundane things that'll make you feel better about yourself and then um then you know do things that are like of benefit to other people too right so you can get out of kind of a narcissistic head space that is not a Jordan Peterson thing that may or may not be I think he does think that's good but some of that means you some of the good you're going to do is you're going to join Maga and you know like that's going to be some of the good you're gonna do in the world yeah take America back and make it great again and yeah put a brick in the border wall or whatever he wants to do yeah I don't know that's he's the he has the wackiest ass philosophy in the world if you want to hear something weird try to understand him it's a mix of like Carl Young Christianity existentialist philosophers and like Maga you're like this [...] does not combust together right yeah this does not work so weird such a weirdo and he dress is really strange and I'm the guy wearing this hat wow but he dress is [...] weird dude yeah well all right well and I'm saying it he has all these weird have you seen these videos yeah I have all these weird suits made and I know I know I you don't want to plug the videos because some people will go maybe potentially watch and if you if you watch one Jordan Peterson video the the the L the algorithm will never [...] leave you alone with him you'll get every single goddamn video yeah if you're watching the one that's making fun of him anyways that's a Jordan Peters thing but you know I don't you think that's kind of it I mean I think yeah I think other's wise on that if you want to get practical about it yeah and I guess when you're dealing with people who have that level of despondency it's it's hard but you have to try to ignite something that they feel passionate about I suppose or at least something they can feel good about themselves with right yeah well I mean one is built on top of the other you could if you're passionate about something then you can feel good about doing it you know and then if you have a place that you could uh implant that energy into it can grow and then that's something that you could stand on that's that's a real brick in the border wall you know not yeah a real one a real brick yeah and then you can start to kind of Tower lean to the heavens not a wall dividing you from other people to like make yourself feel more secure but it does help you but it is I I think it is also important for people like that to feel like they have some boundary you know between the outside world and themselves not to not to keep uh protection from but to feel like they do have a a resp bit you know a place that they can kind of go and not have to keep the facade up or whatever because I think for some people they don't want to be seen actually you know because for men in particular we're talking or women if women are if they don't believe in themselves to be pretty or attractive or something like that they're not going to want to show themselves you know same thing men if you don't feel like you have a skill you're not going to want to be public facing because what do I have to bring to the table you know there you don't you're not a a blank so you're just now some random person now you're worse than being a loser you're faceless you know you're just like a NPC in the crowd yeah like the non-player character yeah yeah you're just some some other [...] Schmo you know and people don't want to feel like that they want to feel like they have some something unique something to give in in in a in a male perspective what we're saying right now but if you don't feel like you have that that is completely disempowering so having a place where you don't feel like you need to put on your face is important you know but at the same time if you never have the opportunity to put something on to show somebody else it's might be because you don't feel like you have anything to put on in the first place and so then you're going to revert back to the things that you were saying you know earlier about odler and the response to these kinds of things that okay I'm going to put somebody else down I'm going to you know be despondent whatever the you know whatever the reaction to that's going to be so yeah I mean the self-esteem applies to everybody really no matter who you are right you know um yeah no matter who you are you need to feel good about that's 's point right and I think he's right you need to feel good about yourself in some way or another I mean if you go back to like okay so yeah so I that was kind of interesting thing to talk about I didn't know we were going in that direction I don't know what up with those kinds of people as far as like family of origin problems I don't know what you know entirely that's about you know I me know from your your own family thing with that obviously it seems like part of what happens in discussion is like families can Crush people yeah that we can see right and or families can free people for sure so maybe the spiritual part is to go and say can you function as a family member that can help people find them their self-esteem help people find their authenticity and help them find their freedom hope yeah I mean that would find their freedom that would be the um the positive thing to help people do right I mean that's yeah the spark but you have to know about that in the first place you know well I mean I think that's like as far as this little podcast goes why I know from my side I try to like say if Alfred outler comes up I'll try to do like a mini sketch on him yeah you know okay let's just do it because it at least puts a context of like then you look at that kid in your life you're like okay well here's a little Theory I can try out this kid needs something that he can feel some self-esteem about and maybe that's like I mean you're you've done personal training in your life with people maybe that's going to the gym and you start working out you start feeling better about yourself that way you know I have you always done very well in terms of being in influential on teenage males you know always since the beginning of my you know working as a trainer and I have a lot of men in my acupuncture practice actually I probably 50% at least that's more so than the average to be honest I mean there you know there you don't know that the acupunctural world there's a lot more female patients than males by Yeah by far Yeah by far yeah it's what do you think that's totally about like why do you think that is I don't know I um I can say that I think because I've I think because I've worked so long as a trainer I have this kind of motivational aspect to myself that's like okay we're going to do I'm doing the Adler thing okay let's set some goals for yourself let's work on you know your food habits your for me I just I'm like I'm like just meditate eat whatever you want whatever [...] it you know like I can't win every battle but do that okay you don't want to do that all right fine then don't eat so shitty like stop drinking or what you know whatever the case is uhuh but I think that men in my from my experience are a little bit more prone to that kind of influence you know they're a little bit more accepting of that kind of thing like okay all right all right I get it you know like I I'll I'll do it I mean it's entirely possible that there's probably a certain amount of men that will take that better from a male clinician yes they'll take that kind of structuring and ordering correct it could be good for anyone to get that from anyone but it's like be realistic about it probably for some guys it's like okay if I heard that from my sister I wouldn't listen to that stuff but hearing from this guy I'm gonna listen to him you know what I mean yeah and I have and of course I have female patients who who really love that also yeah you know but Again part of it is the messenger actually it's not always just the message and so for people who are who are into that I think they they enjoy the reminder they enjoy coming and being challenged a little bit and having somebody hold them accountable so for those who are into that that's good and that and in this case tends to bring in a little bit more male patient you know yeah I could see it I could see it well I mean you know obstacle number two I guess you know to me it's then it's the fun like negative side I think there's in the Buddha story there's obviously idea and I'm going to keep hitting this point throughout all of our episodes we ever do but yeah if you have to break with it you have to break yeah right and there's no doubt for me like there was certain times when I had to break with my family and I did you know it was like I can't be around these people in this way I for me to progress as a spiritual being and I knew the Buddha Story I mean and I obviously it's not a hard story The Crack I mean I understand the implication of it right but as far as like what we were talking even we were talking off mic like what we wanted to do is apply these spiritual teachings to our actual lives to see how they really work and part of that was okay you know Buddha had to break you know to spiritually find himself otherwise you kind of get driven into wherever the momentum of the family thing might go in this case and I was like okay I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to break and I never like you know I came from a house so there was abuse and there were problems I never fully broke up like I didn't talk to my family at all but I did I did distance myself for a certain period of time until I refound who I was and that was like really through kind of the Zen years of my life and doing that so I've kind of have taken that message home and so on that sense you know you might have to do that right and there's the acknowledgement that unfortunately a lot of times it's the people who are closest to you that will create the worst limitations on who you are and that's the Carl Rogers Point too you know it's the people who around you that will create the he uses this phrase conditions of worth they'll put up the criteria that you have to follow in order to meet their demands the conditions of worth and if you don't do them they proba baby should force you to do them or you'll get a lot of negative feedback like maybe some of the people are suffering with a self-esteem they're not getting the family support for this I don't know you know but anyways like yeah you might have to do this thing break you know I know it's going to pan out with you know my son there's interesting thing he's a necrotic these kids and it was weird because some of them are already talking about like I'm gonna go and become an accountant or I'm gonna go and become an a data analyst and you're like you're 11 years old you're dreaming of being a data analyst that's all family pressure like no one dreams of being a data analyst yeah at 11 you want to be a firefighter or like Captain America or Spider-Man I definitely I wanted to be a Pokemon I was like I just wanted that you know that's right that's correct you know you want to be He-Man go fight some Skeletor and some alternate Dimension not a data analyst no so I mean you could kind of see that that my point in bringing up is those pressures are still out there on kids you can still feel it there is I think on the positive side those kinds of pressures make it such that you have something to break out of yeah cabalistic attitude you know if you have an external obstacle that build your will to like push through it I I know how' you feel about I think that did happen for me you know that there was this thing of like pushing through yeah I was writing some notes down I'm just jogging my memory about times where that happened for me for sure and I those are some of the deepest beliefs that I have actually because fought for yeah because they came from a place of unwavering faith and belief conviction right mhm that came but they they were the words were an external manifestation of a feeling of a knowing of a sense of be you know a sense of this is right you know and I don't care how old I am or what the face is or what the pressure is I am not changing to acques I'm not you cannot tell me that this is not right SC do it yeah that's a little bit why you not get along right we find that we recognize that one another and you get to the point like I decided this is the correct one yeah you know and then other people can do what they want that's cool I'm not judging anybody else but I've decided this is the this is the one and uh I will not be budge on this point not budge yeah not at all I mean only the last thing I say that like maybe has a little emotional content for me in this is when my dad did pass um in that weird time you know where spirit separates from from matter you know Chinese medical thought Tibetan Buddhist thought these kinds of spiritual ideas I had a lot of what felt like um spiritual messaging right I was there even when he was comos I was sitting there I'd be you know holding his hand or you know putting my hand on his wrist and being in contact with him and I'd be meditating my dad wasn't a meditative guy you know but um that experience is so powerful if you've been through it because you really feel like the spirit of the person there's a lot of energy there in that experience when someone is passing you know the all the power of the spirit is separating from from matter would be the way you would talk about this right to bet Book of the Dead and so on and it's a lot of energy it's it's S I mean I suppose it's subtle in the sense that uh you know it's not like a bomb blowing off exactly but in a certain level it has almost what feels like a nuclear level of power to it right this is the thing that animates life is separating from this matter and um and I'm sure other people have been through this thing too you start to all your thoughts about that person start to clarify it's almost like your two Spirits are speaking between each other right and the in your quiet inner language to one another right things are clarifying and as far as what you were talking about the message I got from my dad was like I'm sorry I had to be so tough on you I'm sorry I had to be kind of a dick at times it was and he almost I almost got the feel like it was a Zen thing you know like you needed to develop that perseverance to do the things that you believed in against obstacles and I knew if you develop that through you know our even things that were kind of crap in the family and I'm sorry about that but it was developing this strength of character that you would do what you want I guess it's like the Johnny Cash song Boy Named Sue guy names his kid Sue and then you know makes him tough or whatever but it I did have that feeling you know and that that was a very healing thing for me yeah so maybe that's like kind of the other side of this you know if you do have to like have conflict with family of origin whether you're Buddha or just some goofball like me um in the end you can you know it doesn't have to be where you can't have a Reconciliation and a healing at the end right you might have to go in your own way but you can still heal in the end yeah that's good to know too right yeah yeah yeah yeah all right what do you think anything else on it no I think that's good I think it did did it did it justice yeah right yeah so and uh yeah so I mean maybe the the morals would be if you have to break you have to break Buddha did yeah but if we are with family members or other people that we love like what the family MERS you're talking about well you can be that thing that can be the opposite of that not the oppressive Force but the liberating Force yeah yeah I mean ultimately you got to do what's authentically yourself right and that will if you can help other people find their authenticity then that's how you avoid doing this right you help help people you love the kids or the other family members find their source of authenticity yeah and self-esteem right those two things probably go together all right that seems good I think we did obstacle number two I think so yeah yeah yeah all right cool right well as always Eric thank you so much thank you Daniel uh audience thanks everybody for tuning in if you're uh checking us out on some platform whichever one you're on to whether it's YouTube or apple or Spotify or whatever you know uh give us a like subscribe it helps share the show things like this send us an email Jin and Tantra gmail.com hit us up on the old Instagram you know slide into our DMS and uh we'll we'll uh we'll get back to you for sure uh as always Eric thanks so much for uh for for doing this with me thanks again to our audience for for tuning in now for like year three and a half coming up on on four in uh in a few months it's crazy to think about how quickly time is moving but uh you know it's a labor of love as we always like to say and we appreciate all the love the love that we get back from everybody so uh for Eric this is Daniel we'll catch everybody on the next one peace