[Music] hey P G and teers those of us who like our spirituality with a Twist so we like to do these little series we've been working on chipping away at this one uh which we will soon complete um nine things that can [...] up your life which also should be the first g&t publishing effort maybe we'll see yeah um and we had gotten through up to the last few and they all have something to do with like we were talking about avoidance and procrastination and these kinds of things and then we were saying well why do people do this and we got a little bit into the psychology of maybe why people do this and part of it would be because to go through and really look at yourself is can be kind of painful and then Daniel brought up the thing last time for people want to check out that episode which was like what can you do practically about this and we had the idea to talk about psychological defense mechanisms and it's a way of like looking at yourself going wait a minute I'm engaged in some funky [...] here and you can either recognize it in other people of course but you can also turn that turn that mirror towards yourself um and say I'm doing some funky stuff and that probably means that I have something weird going on so the whole Theory goes something like when there's something of psychological discomfort or psychospiritual discomfort um it gets painful and then there's the whole aspect of the mind will start to protect itself from those things and we'll kind of Smosh them down and we were talking about this repression thing I think last time we were hanging out Daniel and it was a good episode yeah and and now we wanted to look at like well what happens when that pressing down that repression thing happens and one of the consequences is usually people start acting weird so when these things get kind of challenged it's you want to see them they're kind of continue to be kind of masked underneath the surface but if they're kind of provoked you'll elicit like weird Behavior out right and that's some of the way of knowing wow there must be some deeper issue for this person because they're acting weird or there must be some deeper issue for me because I'm acting weird right which fits into the whole idea like you could also see this as like components of your like existential Guardian operating system thing that you toss yeah right that you know these are like the pieces that maybe make something like that up right so we thought we'd take a peek at them like one at a time and then just it's part of a question of like that I think the nine things that can [...] up your life is asking which is you know why why do people avoid these things do you agree on that basic idea of avoidance Daniel does that make sense to you too I know we talked about a little bit but yeah I mean yeah we'll go through it I mean that's that's part of it that's part of what we're doing when we you know while we're doing this okay so you're into the idea that it's like it is a major problem yeah there's no doubt I was was like talking to Joanie Osborne who was a guest uh previously did some really powerful episodes about really you know her own experiences um with um you know kind of like sexual violence in some ways too as well as other parts of her life that she had overcome they're really powerful episodes and if you want to like check those out you can and um and I just threw this at her like why are people like this and her immediate answer was just fear like almost immediately and then a lot of this stuff connects back to ideas like okay if I'm afraid and I'm trying to repress things what will pop out instead okay so let's take a tumble at it yeah I guess I'll go through ones that seem like to me the most connected to this and then we'll look at the other ones maybe get a little this meaning this meaning what Eric yeah yeah that's right okay so we're looking at the defense mechanisms as outlined by the daughter of Freud one an aor yes there just a whole list of these things which it's nice to have a list sometimes right yeah to go through and just look at things and they kind of once you have a once you have a word or a phrase for something sometimes it's easier to pick up on it right yeah and I'll you know in the description of the podcast I'll list them out for people uh but you could totally do a a a Google search probably and if you're going to search something if you want to kind of you know pause the episode and have it in front of you you would look at the ego defense mechanisms you could look for like summary chart ego defense mechanisms an a fry something like this and if not then I will gladly put them in the description and then you guys can you know look at it or just listen and obsorb whatever happens to fall into your lap as you are doing whatever it is that you are doing right now and thinking about um emotional insulation there we go yes that's right the defense mechanism of emotional insulation so it's kind of a funny thing you know it's it's an old school kind of a list I got one from like a sort of a standard abnormal psych book yeah you know and um they give these kind of funny examples and some of them some of them are serious examples actually so okay the first one that seems kind of well maybe I should do intellectualization first because we got into this talking about things that can [...] up your life number seven which was the idea that people just keep arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing right and they never really engage and something more constructive than just the arguing that was really funny I have two Friends the one guy sent out a text and he just wanted to argue about politics obviously yeah so it went out to me and one other guy that they know it was the three of us and they were arguing like hell over like days and days it was just arguing and arguing and arguing and in the end the one guy said to me what's wrong with Daniel and I said what are you talking about and he thought it was you it was a third party in the convers ation Daniel but I was like no Daniel is not the third party in this conversation and probably Daniel would recognize that better as intellectualization the defense mechanism and would spend time bullshitting about this stuff so long so anyways intellectualization here's what they say about they say cutting off effective charge meaning emotional charge emotional energy from hurtful situations or separating incompatible Attitudes by Logic typ compartments so that kind of fits I think like I think that's why I started thinking about this with that uh things that can [...] up your life number seven you know people who just spend time as opposed to really developing themselves just involved in these empty argumentations and it got me thinking like yeah a lot of the people who are doing that I think are trying to are trying to protect themselves in some way and all the intellectual [...] comes out then this one side is intellectualization is is like the indication yeah yeah I like I I like the the second half of this too Eric where it says separating incompatible separating in compatible Attitudes by Logic typ compartments and it it it disinhibits synthesis of dis disperate ideas right and and I think you know the what do they say you know one of the um monikers for in you know like intelligence is to be able to hold separate ideas or or contrasting ideas simultaneous you know but in in in kind of a b in balance with each other so you you can think or believe two different things that don't you know like scientists and their belief of God you would imagine that sometimes science and God might be two different things and yet there's plenty of people who are totally engaged in science and also have a ve a very deeply uh deep spiritual life you know as well like we had on Neil th uh just yeah yeah a couple months ago so that that's like the the intellectualization uh and and we we did talk about a little bit about this last time as like the separation between mind and body you know that like you can you can have an understanding of things but then sometimes you can also have a feeling of things and those two things are not necessarily the same and you can describe something to somebody but only until they kind of like you know feel it internally does it does it then click in their mind and make sense for something else and I think that this in particular what this is referencing is is this compartmentalization of ideas or beliefs from other ones and when you have things separate like this it's very hard to to stack one as we talked earlier but you know before we came on the the episode it's very hard to put the Legos on top of each other to build something when they're just laying in different compartments never to be built I think like you know in listen to you talk about this has been interesting to me because we spent like maybe you know we kind of groove on like one of these ideas for a couple of episodes in a row if it like seems appropriate right yeah yeah and I think it's very first one you were really interested in how the mind can kind of like dichotomize and fight against itself yeah yeah so I think that's like this part clicks for that with your way of thinking too right dichotomize out and you get all this weird oppositional stuff sometimes they'll be I'll take a position versus another person and we'll just argue this out that can become a certain kind of intellectualization but you're kind of going like there can be Parts within yourself that seem incompatible and you battle them against one another or something absolutely yeah I mean that's embodied in the uh classic visualization of the two you know devil and the angel on each shoulder eat the cheese don't eat the cheese eat the cheese don't eat the cheese it's good for you you love it all right fine [...] it you know yeah the old like yeah yeah I think on the shower curtain of wisdom you know are like kind of thing in I have in the other room with all the different quots on it Bob Thurman's ones there one of Bob Thurman's there is wisdom is to is tolerance of cognitive dissonance yeah you know that kind of thing yeah where I suppose like you could go yeah it's kind of a weird thing then you intellectualize stuff to like again to smoos it right that's the whole repression thing right yeah yeah yeah which I guess okay so then they give these examples and it is what it is it says a prisoner on death row a waiting execution resist appeals on his behalf and Coy insists on the letter of the Law whatever the examples are kind of are what they are but um yeah I agree I was thinking about this from a practitioner standpoint today and I don't even know we you know going to be do this it would fit here but like okay so people want to come in you know people come in and and you know Eric and I you know we're both we're acupuncturist and and whatnot I've been in the field for quite some time now and people always and new patients at least they ask me well how does it work I said I don't know how many years do you have for me to explain they're like well just in in you know just briefly I said I still don't fully understand how many years do you have for me to explain they're like well patience too yeah yeah yeah yeah I don't care Daniel yeah I what what do you want you know what I'm saying like go look at the degrees on the wall and then ask me to break it down for you in 60 seconds you don't need to know how it works you know you don't go to your surgeon but they do they people want to know why because they're intellectual they're intellectual it's an intellectualization right so I can explain to you that your you know I'll use a personal example so it's seem real uh I broke my pinky toe also known as my fifth metat tarso not the pinky toe but the bone that attaches to the pinky toe and it was split in half and I had to have a plate F my had the bone had to be fused to a plate so it would heal properly football injury back in the day Daniel football yeah it's about almost five years ago at this point um and so I can intellectually understand what happened right I could look at the X-ray I heard the pop I kind of knew what it was but it doesn't change anything I know the surgeon is going to go in there and S you know numb it up slice it open and and put some screws and some bolts and put that thing in but like it doesn't change the fact that it still is going to happen and that I understand the process of it doesn't mean it's going to be any different than if I didn't understand so I'm a proponent of understanding but in in this case and I'm I'm arguing outside the AR argument is happening inside the intellectualization is happening on the inside I'm just arguing outside so that people can see how this happens so easily this is the kind of mental jargon that keeps certain aspects of progress um with an obstacle in front of them for a very long period of time you know you know what strikes me about with with these and I try to think of them with people whether it's patients or just people that I know or like with myself too you know and I guess that's that we we being proponents of that for this particular episode yeah turn that Mir so like the big thing with with with these it seems to me is that when this [...] pops up then you know something something is buried underneath there yes right yep something is hidden underneath there that you're trying to like avoid that's when you know and this one I think is really interesting because some of the dudes I know and I use the word dudes I guess spontaneously because a lot of times it's dudes but it's yeah can be people within the whole spectrum of available people on the planet um uh I just happen to think thinking about the two guys who are arguing via text you know uh with one of them thinking it was you but you know when you look at intellectualization I think it's a tough one and I think that's the reason why it gets called out as things that can [...] up your life number seven so specifically because I think this is a defense mechanism is a tricky one yeah because it makes it seem you're doing something right yeah you know really not and then you know what you're really doing is being avoidant of something that's underneath that right correct yeah yeah all right well let's try and get to some of do these other ones too because I feel like they're all they're all good they're all valuable yeah okay I was going to say one other thing just like quick about it if you're like want to look at this from artistic point of view because he's been on my mind this week sure because there's a great realist artist named Renee mcgree he makes these kind of if you haven't seen them you could just do a little quick search on them he makes these paintings where all of a sudden they'll be like a giant Apple blocking something out in the image or sometimes it's just like a giant sphere and there's supposed to be a little dreamlike feeling but his point is that the scary thing is hiding behind something else he makes a big point about that in the mind the mind has this like putting up this screen and these these surrealist guys were influenced by people like Freud you know that's where they got their thing from so you know when you look at a painting of his there's almost purposely sometimes an object there like what is that doing there it doesn't belong there but it's blocking something canvas and and then you know okay okay you know that's that's the thing that's scary that you're trying to protect yourself from and he's just very aware of it and he talks about it in a very articulate way he kind of talks about this idea like the thing that's really the thing is the thing that's hidden behind the other thing right that's the real you know and one of his famous paintings is also like I think it's called the lovers where it's the two people kissing but they have these sacks over their head so they can't really they don't really know each other on some level right artificial Gap going on anyways I want to throw him out there because I was thinking a lot about him and looking at some of his quotes during the week okay so that one seems like one to me one of the other ones that popped out to me related to what things we were talking about was this emotional insulation that I had mentioned earlier so they say and Frey says reducing ego involvement by protective withdrawal and passivity uh the idea that you kind of like cut away the emotional content and the importance of a thing you just try to chop it away I feel like I had interesting experiences with people doing this lately where they're just like there's something really obviously highly emotional going on I don't feel like I can tell detailed things because it's not my Tales to tell but you know I could kind of tell like wow this person is showing nois emotional interaction with this at all there may be like interacting on some level talking on some level but the the entire emotional content is being like Stripped Away right and I thought well that's so fascinating that's like a kind of a defense mechanism and that means there's probably something weird going right about that one that feels kind of like if we're looking at these in terms of like responses and you have your nervous system doing the responding right in a in a sense because it is it's a mental response but it's also a physical response too you're getting physiologically pinged when you go through these things uh this is like one of the like a withdrawal one right and so you have your fight light freeze and fawn right and this one this one seems definitely like uh a freeze you know yeah freezy quality yeah you're just sort of like it's not a full-on disassociation that one that we'll talk about that one here in a minute um or that's kind of like a fantasy I guess if you want to look at it that way maybe they have it maybe they have one later on that's a little bit more um yeah I'm looking for like something they don't know if they had I think these are the ones that are dissociative that you you can cut off the emotions from it yeah so maybe it is something like that but it's like a freeze or a flight something like this where you you're despondent you know it's like you you have to remove yourself from the situation you know in order to in order to continue so we call it a defense mechanism but we could also say it's a survival mechanism also I I I don't want to like negatively connotate all of these things these are adaptations that people learned or or they're inherent to somebody and that they get enacted at different times of stress if you will and then this is the way in which they're able to cognitively pull themselves through something uh unfortunately the way you learn to respond to something often times gets repeated unconsciously in the way that you respond to other things from that point forward and that may not actually be the appropriate response to that stimulus I think there's something about these things that they can be in some low grade temporary way they can be functional but in the long run they're not correct and also the cue of this is that okay there's something underneath there it's it's Renee mcre again there's something underneath there yeah that you really should be more aware of the example she uses does fit into into talking her though she talks about a child separated from their parents because of illness her hospitalization becomes a tionally unresponsive and apathetic right the emotions get kind of buried and that's almost seems like something that you could learn then and then it can go on and later on your life or something like that right totally but if you're doing this there's something not quite right I found this kind of like I don't know I suppose the more I feel like I've gotten psychologically aware psychos spiritually aware The more I've been inclined to like wear my heart on my sleeve and the emotions just kind of go plof right and they come out so it's interesting I feel like maybe maybe that is a sign if I look at it just subjectively in myself maybe that is a sign of some psychospiritual progress in the sense that I don't know if I do this as much anymore emotions are pretty up and at ready right for ill or for good they're there you get both you know yeah you get the ill and the good all right um one of the real common ones here that's good to just kind of get rid of and do it is rationalization yes where you can find yourself kind of contriving explanations to heal conceal or disguise unworthy motives for one's behavior um technical definition of rationalization seems like it could be a little like intellectualization but it's yeah it has the of like not just using the ideas to create a cloud or something it's just obscuring everything it's something where you go through you say well I'm I'm really doing it for this other reason right I'm really doing this other reason yeah yeah yeah so it's another one I suppose if you see yourself doing this then you gotta be aware that it's a problem well this we talked about we talked about this last time Eric and I and I felt like this was often a way for people to take themselves out of feeling things you know and move themselves more into a mental state and try by by by trying to describe step by step their process as if giving me your uh shitty description of how you do do things changes the way in which you do things it doesn't you know like it it doesn't it doesn't make it any different you're still you're still avoiding you're just using a different you're just using a different path to avoid yeah I feel like like when you get to the spirituality stuff I people will go like um and that does fit into those things that will [...] up your life right yeah start saying well you know the reason I'm not doing this is like some other thing I would be doing this more spiritually Progressive thing except you know there's this whole other set of issues that I have to work on you have my you like they talk about in those in those nine things I know I gotta take care of this other stuff in my life if I once I get these chores done once I get my to-do list done or once I get these then I'm all over that [...] Tantra I'm doing that [...] but I got it first you know there's the issues around the house the porch needs a new code of paint or whatever it is right the rationalization element of it yeah but that's also um what they call that procrastination well that got to what you were talking about especially in the last two of these nine things that'll [...] up your life right they have a procrastinating quality to them right yeah they really do but now you start saying well why are you doing it I mean I guess that's the big deal and then again the reason you're doing it is because there's something [...] uncomfortable yeah want to have to look at so you rationalize it out I think that's really hard when you first start doing spiritual practice too because you come up with all kinds of [...] like this all kinds of reasons why you can't do stuff you make a whole long [...] list of them it is true right I can see your eyes going are you free Daniel real quick I think you might be freezing in our in my video thing are you freezing no no I'm good okay do I look okay to you yeah yeah yeah you're good on my side you're freezing like crazy oh really yeah is the video okay yeah no definitely not freezing we're good little technical problems technical technicalities will not be edited that's live we don't care let's go yeah who was it was coming on do you edit these things or like no not a second dud what what do you think bro I got a life dude you know what I mean this is a hobby this I'm not getting technical I'm not you know anyways all right so we did repression so we did rationalization all right then we get to uh amongst the biggies probably denial is a big one right and I think denial and repression are probably good to like just do together real quick so denial and repression yeah for sure yeah protecting yourself from an unpleasant Reality by the refusal to perceive or face it I think what what Anna is trying to get there is when you're directly confronted with something the example they give is someone who gets research that smoking is dangerous and they like to smoke so they refused to accept that research and um and they just kind of continue on like that thing just didn't exist and then the repression one I think is like the queen of all of these so to me it doesn't even look like a separate one I think it's more I think it's more like the one that's embedded in all of them sure but she's preent preventing painful or dangerous thoughts from entering Consciousness just period right we about Carl Jung's dream with the Throne of God and a giant interred falling on the the cath Cathedral and basil or wherever he grew yeah so this is the pure the purest version of this probably all of these have some element of repression the way I think about it but yeah yeah I agree the example they give is pretty dramatic here they talk about a mother's occasional murderous impulses towards her hyperactive 2-year-old are denied access to awareness so they go very intense on that one yeah but um yeah I think the whole idea that you just hold things away are like part of the whole deal behind all of this I'm trying to think about how this affected me in all my meditative stuff and I think there are those kind of Carl Yung M moments where you can feel like oh there's some pressure some thought has to appear some idea has to appear until it appears things feel internally uncomfortable and then you know maybe eventually you let it pop out and it does feel better do you feel like that's been part of your meditative experience too Daniel yeah but I I feel like I've been influenced a lot of to like really drive your focus you know so like you don't really pay much mind on things you're just sort of like reing yourself back in riging it's a constant you know a constant looping a constant Loop get yourself back in get yourself back in get yourself back in and so those those extraneous thoughts are just simply viewed upon viewed as they are extraneous thoughts good bad or and different you know they interfere with your journeying at all or anything like that do you ever absolutely yeah yeah yeah no doubt I mean that is the that's that is the difficult part in in journeying itself is dealing with extraneous thought and what is related to the journey and what is related to just activity of the mind and this is where most people have the difficult time and threading threading those two halves together you know and I don't mean to be dichotomous you know or dualistic I could say but really in this part that is it's finding the gray area that overlaps the the the dark and the light you know and being able to dance in there and and feel like you're free to associate but that you're not required to you know in order to have an experience and what that might be I've always kind of felt like you've been talking about like trying to get around what are the ego thoughts which would be this kind of stuff from the more pure content of the shamanic Vision that is that fair to say absolutely it's something yeah yeah it is a very very very subtle and I'm not going to say It's Tricky but it's something where it's like building another sense which I know that that doesn't really give a great explanation but it is it would be as if you were to you know walk around your house with your eyes or your apartment or wherever you live with your eyes closed as much as you could eventually you would start to have a feeling for like walls and changes in the floor and kind of knowing where things are based on other senses and the same thing in those Visionary and those experiential spaces you get the sense for what is your own projection and then what is your kind of like co-creative experiential Journey from you know one scene to the next or one experience or one realization or whatever it is you know the things that you're aware of the thread that binds if I if I can say if that's there's uh the show I really am loving it's gonna be over at the end of like this season and I'm not GNA away too much if you want to watch it but it's called evil and the guy who's like one of the lead characters is the guy who played Luke Cage remember in the old Marvel series on Netflix yeah yeah I think me is Mike cter yeah I think I'm that right anyways you know he plays this priest and it like kind of follows him having his Visions in different seasons of the show and the show's trying to play with one of the things you brought up earlier this idea of science versus religion and spirituality they're kind of asking always questions about that that one character or a couple of characters were very scientific minded people and he sort of more this out of the- boox religious guy uh but the gimmick in like in this heading into the last season is they're trying to use him because he has a talent for remote viewing so he's seeing things from afar and he's kind of involved with like the Vatican version of the CIA or something which who knows something like that existed but um so they're trying to get him like you know some priests are held hostage in some third world country or something they're trying to get him to get remote viewing of what's going on and they they raise this issue of like how do you determine what's like your ego structures right appearing in the vision in the remote viewing versus like what's the actual thing that you need to see you know yeah totally they play with it yeah it's interesting it's been kind of a fun show for that because they take it in these trippy places there's also a bunch of ones where he's like doing mushrooms or something and trying to have visions of God it's kind of weird it was on network television it's very strange but like fun all right so we did those kinds of two things together y uh eventually get to the idea of I guess fantasy is kind of a weird one just because how they talk about it right well fantasy and projection uh fantasy and projection are s similar oh I think fantasy has to do with what happens inside your own world right sure so it's kind of like gratifying the frustrating desires by imaginary things in your own mind right it's kind of daydreamy or something right sure well projecting like okay so well I guess we'll do both of them then we'll see right yeah yeah people think about it um okay so then they get the example of a socially inapt and inhibited young man imagine himself chosen by a group of women to provide them with sexual satisfaction that's so old school frud uh anyway so that's the fantasy thing I think that can happen meditatively too right where you find your mind kind of off running into different little fantasy little dialogues with itself what do you think about that fantasy though in this case seems only as if it's positive and it does I that's is that supposed to be positive that example I don't know um I mean a socially inept and inhibited young man imagines himself chosen by a group of women to provide them with sexual satisfaction that seems pretty positive for that you know as opposed to as opposed to denying poran or something and like yeah I mean well as as opposed to grappling with the maybe the the difficulties that he has in in reality meeting a partner right I think that's supposed to be the idea right yeah but the but I'm saying that the fantasy itself is only positive what I'm saying is that the fantasy can also be negative it could also be uh um contributing to the problem also I mean this is contributing to the issue but making it worse so the kind of negative self talk the oh I ain't you know I'm not [...] anyways you know what I mean like you you kind of brow beat yourself even with the F your your quote unquote your fantasies are um are not are like kind of are are just signs of like hostility towards your own self-image or something like that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's a good way of putting it yeah exactly exactly so that's why I wanted to just make sure that both both sides are you know and one I call the negative fantasies project we're not I'm not going to call it that for this discussion because there is something that you use okay got it something that I use I call it projection and I cool on a regular basis I tell people you know really like you can have goals and and and ideas or plans right um but those are usually coming from a place of hope or optimism right and so you could also call them maybe a bit of a fantasy but that you're trying to manifest that fantasy through work however that n work looks but then you can also have projections and those projections again different from the projection that that that we're going to be mentioning here in a minute but this rejection is coming from probably a little bit more of a hurt place and that that hurt place is projecting in the future and it's not going to be accurate A and B is going to be probably worse off than you are now because you're in you're coming from a place of like hurt or place of Despair or a place of sadness you where we tend to think oh well I'm going to be homeless and die or no one cares about me and you know whatever if I die tomorrow no do you know what I'm saying so no one would call that a you wouldn't call that a fantasy because it's a terrible fantasy but we could say we're definitely moving into the future with uh kind of psychoemotional um impetus you know and if that's coming from a bad place and that fantasy is going to be a Dark Twisted Fantasy like Kanye West album from many years ago you know it's um I think it's is it Christopher Ryan the guy who wrote civilized to death I believe so yeah he makes the whole point I think we did it all the way back when we were talking about oh God what's that part of the brain we were talking about back in the day oh that's default your default mode network network yeah the default mode Network yeah and he makes this whole argument that in that civilized to death that in like more traditional cultures you don't get as much of that negative selft talk might diagnose with like schizophrenia they're not usually like ragging on themselves you know the thoughts even the delusions are not so hostile they're not so paranoid they're not so they're not so nasty in that way that's kind of just an interesting like little thing with that even that part of the mind maybe in like the kind of cultures that we're we're living in and talking about just are more dark it's interesting you know uh when you hear the voice in your head they're not so hostile towards you you know in those cultures so you can have more of an imagination of having like an internal voice that you wouldn't think was you but they they'd be kind of nice to you and then that's probably not schizophrenia anymore right so yeah you know I don't want to go like too deep down this this thing but I you know have been saying recently I say um when that when someone external voice matches the negative internal voice in my head those are hard moments oh gotcha someone's saying something to you that's also like oh [...] this is the kind of negative [...] I'd say about myself I if I let myself and they like match up with each other that's what you're talking about yeah those are hard moments that's like those are like the opposite of a synchronicity I mean they are still synchronistic but it goes from a fantasy to a projection you know what I'm saying definitely something negative right yeah you're not yeah you're not fantasizing about group sex no you're not fantasizing about group sex no but I mean like I think part of the reason why she's doing it is that that there's a kind of like if you want to take the fantasy thing in other ways it's probably anything where potentially you pour your mind into it just to not have to face your [...] absolutely so probably people do that a lot and you obviously think of stuff like the easy access to like online porn and stuff like that so now you don't even have to fantasize in your mind you just kind of vicariously live that thing through somebody else but it's probably and like you know we're okay with a little bit of that when we you know we've had neither one of us are big porn people we're just not right right so I don't have judgments about that you know you can watch some erotic materials if you know it gets your rocks up there's no problem but of course there's the whole thing about like people getting absorbed into these fantasy things right right and the whole issue I think that she's raising there is that then that becomes something where you don't really look at yourself you just kind of throw your mental energies into these Fantastical things and I think a lot of the other stuff is like that too like playing video games or something right you're just doing some [...] acting out in some fantastic otherw World setting so you don't have to like yeah face the hard things of of your own life I guess that's where I take that fantasy thing does that make sense to you yeah yeah yeah um okay well I guess projection was going to be next and projection seems to me to related to this idea of displacement so maybe we'll bang both of those out right yeah so projection attributing one's unacceptable motives or characteristics to others so you go through and obviously we've all been either done this or or had it done to us or something the whole thing of you know going you're so selfish you're so this way you're so that way but actually it's really you and later on you have to face the fact of oh wait a minute that was me I was the one doing that um and then also displacement the idea of it says discharging pent up feelings often of hostility on objects that are less dangerous than those that initially Rouse the feeling and they have kind of a typical example here a woman harassed by her boss at work initiates an argument with her significant other so you know that whole idea this is really more kind of watching I suppose how you start like interacting with others or at least start intera with others in your mind even right it's also bul it's also bullying yeah yeah true true true true I suppose in the meditative sense sometimes you might feel like you sit there and your mind is bullshitting around and it goes wow this other person really has these issues or this or other thing and then you have to face that it's actually you I think that does happen and then I think also youa could be sitting there going boy like that that Cindy is constantly giving me [...] and you know I'm gonna like take it out on that Cindy but actually you're really mad at Molly right your ex-girlfriend something like that you know so okay those are the two ideas with that what do you make out of those in your meditat practice that [...] been anything at all that speaks to you no not not really not I mean yeah no other ones but not those sometimes with some of the stuff I've done like I was doing Zen and you just count your breath the mind can get a little rambly behind the breath counting for sure and I talked that before and sometimes you find yourself again these are kind of patterns of thought then potentially right I guess is the pitch with it yeah you kind of look at yourself and go okay wait a minute why am I getting all these hostile feelings towards this person the idea would be sometimes behind those what you're really feeling is anger towards somebody else and you're displacing it sure or what's really happening is like it has more to do with like aspects of yourself you have to face and realize that you just want to kind of force onto someone else those are two big yeah when that's happening then there's something funky going on okay cool um a few others this one regression came up today in kind of an interesting way retreating to an earlier developmental level involving less mature behavior and responsibility um so yeah I was talking with a friend from grad school and she just started saying you know what happens to a lot of people is they kind of freeze under at some level of development I mean I literally had this conversation this afternoon and she was saying you know they get kind of stuck there and then when you really look close more closely at what they're doing you can realize oh that's the stuckness of a 16-year-old or the stuckness of an 18 year old or something even though now they're 40 or whatever and I think there's something to that too right where you can kind of look at yourself and realize man I'm acting in a way that isn't as mature as what I really am I better like look and see what's hiding behind that I think that's the notion and it's funny because she just brought it up we were talking about someone that we both kind of know and she want you know what I really think that is is I think that person's just stuck somehow right and the ways that they're acting are like coming from that place yeah is that conversations you have with patients or people that you work with a lot Daniel that kind of stuff regression I I think some sometimes well I mean but I still have a lot of patients and stuff who have kids you know they have so sometimes I don't know I feel like when people are are acting immature it's a it's a state of regression and I feel like it gets M people's behavior that immature Behavior gets masked as other things you know this just the way they are that's kind of like a personality work but um it totally is it's totally a regressive Behavior I guess I should look at these I mean this is funny going through these because you start looking them for yourself oh yeah man do I sometimes act like I'm coming at things from more the point of view of a younger person I wonder wonder okay um maybe do a couple others and we'll like say that we did it uh full full Justice here yeah uh there's an undoing so it says atoning for or magically trying to dispel unacceptable acts and desires he's kind of like a weird one it almost sounds a little OCD in the example a teenager who feels guilty bot masturbation touches a door knob a certain number of times or something like that to get rid of the guilt I think people do this kind of stuff too oh yeah it's called Superstition man no but also the idea like I I I felt this sometimes in like how sometimes you can talk with yourself you know well I'm doing something shitty in this part of my life but in that part of my life I'm killing it sure and that's making up for this other thing you know with that like I'm really doing pretty mediocre so I wonder about that I I I think I've caught myself doing that on occasion I've been doing great on this thing and that's not going to solve the problems of this other thing and then maybe there's some weird emotions going on behind that in this case they're mentioning somebody who feels guilty doing something weird in some other part of life I think people do that stuff you know yeah I might sit and do this negative thing but in this other part I gave five do to the reelection campaign of the candidate of my choice or something you know and Sol it that way a weird psychological thing that people can do or undo yeah yeah okay um identification is kind of an interesting one increasing feelings worth by ailing myself or filling oneself with a person or institution of a lusterous standing oh yeah people do this people do this a lot you know whether it's like uh we're from Chicago so whether you're identify with one of the local sports teams which is a big Chicago thing to do or I know people who do that sometimes with like music artists right they'll identify really strong and it's kind of interesting I'm thinking of people that I know when we talk about they'll identify with some particular performer or some particular other famous person and I really like the qualities of this person and I sometimes had the thought well maybe you should develop those qualities I mean you like the they're very like outside the box or something and like well maybe that's what you're really admiring them so maybe you should just do that and you want to identify with them you'll identify with yourself to me this just screams of that to me doesn't that religion isn't that all of them isn't that what you just said is all of them you know yeah oh I could never I'm a Christian you know and you're like oh okay and yet you know all these behaviors whatever um or whatever you know fill in fill in the religion of of choice that you want there you know I could I could never do that yeah yeah yeah okay well sure seems like you're doing it so okay well that kind of overlaps with the UN doing thing I did this really shitty stuff but I went to church and I put1 whole dollars when they put that thing through I just reached to my pocket and put all put all 10 of them in there you know how many Hail mares But Eric if we're gonna be honest let's keep it let's keep it a buck right undoing how is that how is that outside of the realm of purification in the you know in some of the meditative practices from the you know you know g r had the whole thing of the four RS which I don't know if I'm gonna be able to like do it justice all of them but you know he would say that you have to be willing to like refrain and repent you know repent is kind of a weird work because it has all those Christian overtones but you know like you want to be able to do those things where you're not just like okay [...] it I'll just purify this thing again cool Indulgence from like Tara or something I got this whole bottle of holy water man I'm straight yeah I just did 10 I just did 500 mantras I did five malas that made up for that other thing I did yeah I'm I feel not good about yeah back to the casino tomorrow I it's one of those things where you're like yeah I mean that's that's a danger right and the tricky trickster psychology of the ego the existential Guardian operating system um yeah the identification thing I mean I suppose there's problems with that I think if I look back in the day I think there were parts of me that would try to do little bits like this I used to read like biographies like I could read a a biography of like jimmi Hendricks or something because I was playing guitar right and I would think okay I you know You' start to try to identify a little bit with this person in some way probably because I was a teenager I didn't feel as good about myself you know if I look back in the time machine right so of a sudden you're like kind of going okay what's jimmmy like maybe I'll try to be a little bit more like Jimmy you know um and I grew out of that thing but I mean you could see that there's a real danger in that right I could feel like I see that in adult people you know they identify really I mean obviously political candidates was which was one of your things yeah you were talking about ago too right yeah that part yeah all right anyway so that's that's one that you can realize there's something funky going on definitely I should watch too um okay some of these look a little bit similar but overcompensation and uh covering up perceived weaknesses by emphasizing a desirable characteristic or making it for gratification in one area by overg gratification in another they kind of give a good example to illustrate this one it's someone who has a problem with obesity that goes into like eating binges kind of almost like um binge eating as a diagnostic psychological thing when they feel neglected by their husband or something you go through and you feel bad about some part of your life and you find yourself overc consuming or over overacting in some other part to cover up the fact that you feel bad about your life in other ways yeah I guess a lot of them kind of like the fantasy thing and some of these other ones stop you from doing proactive constructive things right yeah yeah it's an avoid it's a it's it's a manifestation of an avoidant pattern yeah yeah which is like the last of these nine things that'll [...] up your life right they're very much like that right you sort of to know you're one thing and you feel bad about you compensate someplace else all right cool um acting out so engaging in antisocial excessive Behavior without regard to negative consequences as a way of dealing with emotional stress an unhappy frustrated sales representative has several indiscriminate Affairs without regard to the negative effects of the behavior so in this case it's someone who again it's like it's a little bit like the overcompensation thing I think that's the reason to kind of talk about those things kind of together right in that one the person is probably doing things that they know that they know they wouldn't otherwise feel good about but they do it in a way that helps them deal with some other negative emotions that otherwise they're not willing to face I'm trying to figure out if that's been a major thing in my life or not I definitely know other people who have done this a lot I don't want to just point the fingers at others with these things I I'm sure I've done this too right because that would be projection guilty guilty guilty well don't worry Eric if you see 30 Hail Marys I will I will uh absolve you of all of your sins I don't want to undo I want to really fix this yeah I've looked at it I think I was having an interesting conversation about people whether I'm a trickster or not I think when I first we talked about it yeah yeah we did talk about it too when I first started like getting into the meditation more intensely and I was kind of jetting up like this part of myself that was going to disagree with the societal rules like that was gonna happen I was disag I was gonna disagree with him this is probably the best example of this actually I was gonna disagree for my own life I was gonna disagree with them and I started like I did probably act out in ways where I was like you know what the rule is this [...] it I'm not just gonna violate this thing I'm gonna really violate this thing this is probably going more back even in my like pregg grad school days and things like that I would sometimes do stuff like that you know and I think I was doing that in a way that I guess was dealing with emotional stress probably that's true and it was also kind of a true acting out where I hadn't kind of figured out where my own boundaries and ideas were about what I thought was true what I thought things should be and so then I acted in ways that were kind of more provocative or something that's a little bit how I got into the Yung thing maybe we talked about those episodes I can't remember but you know I realized like wow I'm being too [...] trickery I'm doing too much of this I better get this under control you know like I felt I was a little bit under the thrall of a trickster archetype um I don't feel that way anymore and it's interesting I don't feel that way anymore personally just because like we were talking about I feel like the rules of the world that I disagree with I just I just disagree with and I don't give them a reality more than what they have I kind of just see them as like well that's what they say in this Society or those are the conventional truths of this particular group of people and I just disagree with them you know so I kind of took away the reality of those things and then the trickster thing kind of changed and I think I think the acting out thing changed for me too whatever I was doing of that started to go away I have you had any Spirits like that in your meditative or Spiritual Development no I'm perfect so you [Laughter] know yeah where where's that one on the list avoidance uh um uh int that's all of them rationalization it's all of them repression yeah all right couple last ones and uh we will be done with all ofan Freud um splitting ah interesting one viewing oneself or others as all good or all bad without integrating positive or negative qualities into the evaluations reacting to others in an all or none manner rather than considering the full range of their qualities that's funny because we were just talking about this [...] earlier today outside of any that's easy for people to do this you know yeah yeah I think you were even talking about like okay man you this person's 90% positive but I'm gonna latch on to whatever the negative things about them that you know I might have not happen to like and I'm GNA make them 100% negative that 10 n that 9010 split just went 100 zero right yeah yeah it's it's the way in which that you know like I was I'll just explain it a little bit so I was just kind of talking with Eric earlier about some relationships that we have and you know everybody has relationships with with some people that are closer or further away right and and no relationship with anybody is 100% perfect everybody there's all some there's always some wrinkles it doesn't matter you know and depending on the on the depth of your friendship some of those wrinkles are are more like you know tsunamis and those are your enemies and other ones is very small not a big deal but no no relationship is completely perfect but there are some you know instances or occurrences or situations that could happen in life that instead of viewing your whole relationship as something that has some um ripples in it you you can change your perspective to only see ripples to only see and only experience static and once that occurs then your view of that person goes from being for the most part good and you have good memories about them and you give them the benefit of the doubt to all that [...] was [...] and no benefit of anything you are all the things that I could possibly think negatively about you are in the embodiment of all of them and sometimes it doesn't really take that much unfortunately you know yeah that's that's how things like this that's how relationships can flip and how you know friendships can change it's it's it's this very thing right here this splitting and that's because we are unable to acknowledge that all of us have quote unquote good and bad qualities or we could say like attractive or repulsive equality qualities based upon how we view people and what our thoughts are about them at that time and the inability to hold all of those qualities up together and view them as a as a synthetic being knowing that people are inherently are going to make mistakes they're going to do things that may go against your you know code of ethics or how you view the world or whatever the case is the question is is can you still see them as the being that you saw them for yesterday you know it may mean that the relationship might evolve of course um But ultimately it's up to that person to remember who they saw not that long ago because ultimately I don't think that that person is actually that different you know like they're really not but this is how I see it you know I tend to at end I like to forgive if I can yeah I think like the splitting thing has a lot to do with what you were talking about earlier because I think you can turn this on yourself too yeah you can say okay I'm all good or all bad or something right people will flip in this way on themselves right so to me I I mean I get the words the language you were using right that negative internal voice that like just like asks you all the time but I think that's a splitting too yeah all of a sudden you go from I'm okay to now I'm all bad or something right I don't know what this means in terms of like spirituality you know I've I've often had the thought that like this particular American culture that we live in likes to do this it's kind of a Pur culture and so there is almost a thing like if you're all good you can be all good but once there's a sliver of like Satan or like you know the bad influence enters and then all of a sudden the person's completely corrupted and everything goes down the [...] or something it's an interesting thing and I almost feel like it's like something deep it's a [...] joke culture it's so deep [...] joke man it's kind of like The Scarlet Letter or you know those kinds of things this person did the something and now all of a sudden they're they're in in uh what's the word I'm looking for not imputed but anyways they're condemned to the entirey of their character or something you know yeah the no redeeming qualities in them anymore you know yeah it's a tough one and then you wonder if like if you're willing to do that to others then you're probably willing to turn that on yourself too I'm assuming so yeah and then there's something really uh I was talking about the show evil earlier there's something really potentially evil about that right but sometimes it can kind of kind of come under the guise of certain kinds of approaches to Rel religiosity or spirituality or something like that that's why I thought like the Asian past were so interesting for me I don't know how it feels for people who are raised in them in Asia I wasn't you know but they just didn't have as much of this you know this all or nothing good or bad kind of feeling to them you know I could kind of given an example one of the Polish ladies that was at one of the first Buddhist tonra Retreats she's this older nice polish lady and she was saying like well that's one of the things that she liked in Asian spirituality too like people didn't have to go to hell just because they did a little bit of bad stuff or something right everyone had a good pure nature at the core right yeah blo Bub's not going to stab you in the butthole every day for the next hundred years because you did a little cocaine last weekend like chill out undo it just go through do the mantras go to the local church a few bucks in the collection plate whatever wash that away you take some of that holy water you know you you touch that door knob 17 times boom salt you're good yeah now it's interesting I think because I think that's a danger in spiritual a spirituality where it hits to religiosity get a little bit like you know you start feel bad about yourself you know but that's better if you realize oh no I have a Buddha nature I'm good right I'm not I'm not bad at the core or something yeah I'm actually good at the core original sin right original sin yeah there we go yeah all right last two real quick sublimation channeling frustrated desires they mentioned Sexual Energy in the substituted practices they're putting a lot emphasis and this one on the sexual stuff but they probably can come in other places too you know Eric you said that really fast man did I yeah okay I was probably was overe excited by it yeah that's frustrated sexual energy into substitutive activities yes but the other thing I was trying to say was that probably it also has to do with just any kinds of desires that might be frustrated maybe doesn't just have to be sexual yeah correct correct so they give the example of a sexually frustrated artist paints wildly erotic pictures erotic pictures probably almost any of these things I guess that's worthwhile looking at oneself too do you find that you sublimate stuff this is one of the ones where Freud's kind of weird about it if we just psychology of it he says that some of this is sort of healthy if you really can't go through and have some of these desires fulfilled can not just let's say disappear into fantasy or you know some of these other things you can go through and take that energy and use that into some other part of life yeah is life affir creative and Etc right yeah you're alchemizing that you're using it as fuel for the you know fire of existence you know your creative fire or it's that's the alchemical fire right that's exactly what that is yeah we're supposed to like you know we when you do talk about like tantric sexual meditation I mean part of that is a kind of a sublimation right you go through and you use some of those sexual feelings for and you like like kind of in a certain sense poured into the meditative activity right so eroticism to do that use that eroticism to do that so I mean that could be good right and then people do that in other aspects of life so I think of all of these I think this is considered to be one of the more healthy ones I worked with a woman who couldn't have kids she was in her mid to late 50s and she just did all these volunteer things around kids and volunteer things at the zoo and just you know that's a sublimation right on some level there's a longing for her own children that she can't have but you direct it into some other place so I suppose it's one to look at right I mean if I think about this in my own life and maybe how especially how this is handled in sort of the Buddhist tantas too I think okay there can be positive aspects to this right you have a broken heart over the lover who's gone and you recognize those feelings of longing for them and you pour that into your tantric meditation or something I definitely feel like there's been times when I've done things like that and it's a way of taking those energies which otherwise could be negative and pushing them into more positive places and then it's interesting because then that like can become almost kind of blissful and then that's kind of healing right or maybe that lady gets the joy of being around those children and it like heals so anyways ups and downs of these things but I suppose it takes a certain amount of awareness right yeah you have to kind of be you have to have that that's an intentional Act you know yes that's an intentional act you may not necessarily know oh I'm doing this because of that but you know that what you're doing fulfills you in a very particular kind of a way and so it's it's uh you know those are those are Enlighten those are acts you know those are compassionate acts uh what do they what does llenn call it Enlightenment activity Enlightenment activities yeah I wonder um I wonder if that awareness part is really important important in this one no I think that's the point they might be making if this is done in sort of a semi unaware way then you know maybe you don't get the full feeling because won't really transform it then then the Tantra the Alchemy can't happen because you don't really fully transform it all right the last one oh interesting ends with a closer fixation big finish attaching oneself in an unreasonable or exaggerated way to some person or arting emotional development on a childhood or adolescent level I feel that is more like the regression thing uh the attachment I think is kind of interesting the example they give is an unmarried middle-aged man still depends on his mother to provide his basic needs but yeah something about that been talking with a lot of people about like love and the meaning of love you know I think as we do these episodes where we talk about a lot of these things so honestly and we've done episodes where we've had really honest conversations about these things um people will sometimes I I find people talk to me you know sometimes it's in relationship either they're either they're talking they start talking to me and then they listen to these episodes or sometimes maybe vice versa but the idea like of this is a deep one right so I suppose maybe the deepest part of this for me would be deciding when is it kind of right to have those kinds of deep feelings for someone and when is it kind of not right that's probably the thing that one has to tease apart in this right when is this psychos spiritually healthy and when is this something that's more problematical that one would have to identify as something that would need to be worked on I mean I think that's interesting right I put a lot of stock I was talking with um a student who's going through all kinds of really interesting psychospiritual Chang and we were talking about room and I really admire that part of room that he was willing to like attach himself in some way to someone as a transformative activity like I respect it admire it and I have personally wov it into my woven it into my own like Buddhist philosophy I've taken that those Sufi ideas and I've said okay they're gonna become part of my path on the tantric level I include them you know in the self in the self-conscious way going know this has to be included and this is my choice yeah um but maybe it is something to look at oneself and go okay when is this when is this right when this is psychologically healthy or when it's is psychologically unhealthy I suppose the point in the example is it's a a guy who needs to get over like just being tied in only to his mother or something like that you know but you know we can look at those in the Romantic relationships and the relationships that we have yeah one other artist asked a question like this before what is love and I will read you and excerpt from this what is love oh I don't know why you're not fair I give you my love but you don't care so what is right and what is wrong Give Me A Sign What is love baby don't hurt me don't hurt me no more that might be something that might like a criteria I would have to take the heart yes I better write that into my lomm don't they do that like in on SNL they guys just constantly yeah for sure it's a classic thing phell and the other guy right yeah Chris Katan a Chris Katan wow SNL deep cut from Daniel um the mighty Chris Katan um yeah okay I mean that that's an interesting question you know I was writing someone recently about this I was saying yeah I guess I do have to like make sure I I feel like the people that I feel like I'm connect Ed with there's a reason you know I don't feel like it's just some crazy talk and in general it's not like some like unrequited thing or something yeah when I have attachments with people there's usually something that's reciprocal in that whether it works out or not but as far as baby don't hurt me baby don't hurt me no more it is interesting because I think okay I was saying this like okay maybe I have to look at that and make sure that I go through and choose the people who are going to reciprocate in ways that are kind enough or something I wonder about Y and then you'll know I I guess the other part of that too is like is this making you psychos spiritually better person if this is a person who's not going to make you psychos spiritually better and you have all these unreasonable or exaggerated attachments that's probably negative right probably I I don't know I mean I feel like you want to have an A a lens of discernment you know in terms of where you're spending your time energy resources whatever um but if you're doing the real Alchemy thing you know as a deep level practice then any and every interaction that you're going to have could potentially yield you something of value now that's not to say that you could do whatever but um you should be able to if you're turning it if you're doing the turn and you're turning all of it into potential Enlightenment activity then nothing is necessarily off the table and that's kind of the point right is that you can live your life in the way that you want you can ride a bull backwards stare at the world from his ass essentially and go yeah that's perfect you know I'm doing Buddha nature right now right right exactly you know the [...] of this bull yeah now totally obviously you want to kind of like align your life so that you can you know have some kind of ethical and moral guidelines to to give yourself by and you want to be doing the Deep internal Dives and not you know intellectualizing and all this other kind of thing but on you know the other hand you want to feel like what occurs for you is occurring for you at that particular time and you have the practice wherewithal understanding and most importantly awareness to uh take things and break them down into their component pieces so that you know what it is that you're going to assimilate and what it is that you're going to let go it's interesting for me is I like I if I really think about this one and I've asked myself this question I think I even wrote LL Glenn a little bit about this right llama Glenn melon one of our spiritual mentors and Dharma friends um kind of asking about you know like if I if I look at myself kind of honestly I would say the things that I've engaged in where there's been sort of like deeper attachments to people yeah right I can't say that I didn't get a lot of reward and benefit from that I did but I've also sometimes had to ask myself a really tough question which was something like yes but even though that was true was that situation with that person correct in that they were they were really someone who warranted that amount of energy being poured into that thing I've asked myself that question yeah again I have asked myself that not to say that I didn't get benefit from it too so I guess both those things can be correct yes right you be get you can you can be getting the benefit but then also look at that as a personality trait see and start going you're already you're already avoiding intellectualization Eric look at you I'm doing the best I can man that's it I'm trying I'm trying but to be H you're doing great you're almost there thanks Daniel you're helping me overcome my various feelings of internal splitting I Love It of myself as all good or all bad yeah yes so I know I mean I think that's worth I mean I'm I'm doing that I've done that too I mean I could think of one person we haven't seen each other in years but I've always had this question of like yeah I definitely am learning though this is a hard this is a hard road yeah where we're riding ride backwards on the ass of a of a bull no it's a full-on [...] Rodeo you know all the rodeo clowns are running out in case you got thrown on your head yeah I have to be like okay and I had friends who would be like what the [...] are you doing it's all right [...] is wrong with you and I was like well you know it's a little quick sodic sometimes you gotta charge a windmill yeah learn I did you know all you know we're we're we're pointing these out because we're you know we're coming to the end of our uh discussion on the the obstacles that can you know [...] up your life and these are internal obstacles that get manif that that can definitely manifest externally in some of these specific ways but you know we're just trying to highlight obstacles people are inevitably going to run into because this is you know they say or Mary Kay likes to say common things are common and these are you know this is this is a list of of ways that we all cope you know that we all survive that we all adapt if you will and it's not necessarily that you want to like avoid things it's just a matter of understanding how it is that we react and then developing the ability to emancipate yourself from unconscious reactions and to choose is this what I'm choosing now and if the answer is yes then okay then then you could at least accept responsibility for that choice but if the answer is no or you're not even aware of it then it's very difficult to uh take responsibility for something that you're not even sure why you did that or what you even might have done and it makes learning and growth very difficult very difficult because you're not you're not even the one really calling the shots it's genetic or it's influential from what you saw other people do like eventually you want your actions or reactions or both to be yours of your Accord coming from the inside out and um the way in which I think we're trying to present this is through you know through understanding and realization of many of these patterns that are going to happen as the daas have highlighted and now who some you know as we've numerous psychologists have highlighted you know then that we've talked about at least a half a dozen psychologists and all the various permutations of what um you know what these things look like yeah like young talks about individuation in exactly that way you're not being diluted by the internal parts of yourself that are trying to like delude you and you're not deluded by the external world yep right yep I guess it's that like the kaer might be like you don't have to do splitting and be yourself all negative or all positive if you have these things in you right uh I think there's something about like I think the Tibetan Buddhist world does a good job with this I didn't get as much of this in the Zen spaces for example but they do a good job of going well okay Pi pick it pick something and like fix it work on it you know you got something just say okay that's a major one let me start working on that one right and if you get that one better then you can move on to something else right Legos all these things as go forward what was that Legos Legos well that might be regression Daniel I'm not gonna try to like yuck your yum they could be big ones he that's those are for the even the younger kids but okay they're really big ones that like fill up most of my hand well I spent a lot of money on this house and they're built by small Legos oh wait those are bricks sorry yeah yeah yeah all right okay so we did it right so we we're g to like probably wrap up the last two of our things that can [...] up your life maybe one episode maybe two yeah but this is sort of more like you know why why do people do these things and hopefully some psychology this helped all right cool thank you Danny all right Eric thank you so much as always I appreciate the the ride and the journey and uh all the things uh thanks everybody for tuning in if you find our work useful please uh you know share with other people uh like comment subscribe if you're on the YouTube or if you're on another platform you know leave us a like or I don't know whatever you can do uh do it help the you know helps the show reach some other folks uh we definitely do that as always uh for Eric this is Daniel we'll catch you guys in the next one peace