Kind: captions Language: en [Music] hey fellow G Anders those of us like our spirituality with a Twist So Daniel and I have been doing these episodes that are on nine things that can [...] up your life which is also the title of our pending book pending in sometime in the offing yeah right in the future pending closer and closer all the time yeah at some point it's going to be impending you know yes ominously impending yeah going we were going through like the individual ones and then we kind of took a little like hey hold on a second let's really look it's about these nine dowst obstacles that they list if you've been paying attention to the episodes and we're kind of doing a little bit of a two-parter because we took a little time out and said hey what are these obstacles actually uh towards what are these obstacles standing in the way of we want to just talk about that a little bit so we did a first part last week this is kind of like the second part of this thing but you know um I think from your point Daniel you had a really kind of like epiphanous moment about this and we were like well let's just start with that right yeah and what you thought this whole place this project is kind of about for you and anyways you're gonna do it in your own words obviously so I'll throw it back to you and yeah yeah so so you know fortunately over the last six months in particular last maybe eight months but especially in the last like two months I have been talking with people about where they're at in their in their own personal process their own Journey if you will and specifically what I'm talking about is people who are either beginning to meditate or wanting to begin to meditate and looking for a place to start so a couple episodes we talked about one of my clients who was interested in doing TM and so we talked about it and we kind of you know we talked about it in the episode the kind of pros and cons about it and so on and so forth and so people can check that episode out I forgot what I I titled it but you know whatever it's one of the more recent ones and so he was talking to me and then one of my other my brother was talking to me and just you know some other people who were closer talking to me about their practice or or desire to begin one and they're asking me for materials and of course we've done so many episodes on on this in particular throughout the years you know because we're like we've said before we're coming up on year number four in July here so we'll have to do like something different when that time comes maybe we'll do a live or something like this you know yeah um anyways but you know it's nice to give somebody something like here's a thing or you can order this thing and it's going to kind of be a thing for you and so as we're going through this kind of like public brainstorming if you will I have been you know searching for the intention of the book really at least from my perspective and I understand what the intention is overall is for the the sort of development and freedom and helping of people you know in in various ways uh but but with for each project at least for me I have to have like a through line you know and it came this week via my work with with other people and so I you know kind of put pen to paper and I'm not going to do this for everything that I write you know what I'm saying but like for this because it's important and like for me it's like really the beginning which is what you did was take a time out from what we were doing and talk about this and really it's a it's a condensation of all of our you know work on this podcast is going to be in the book but anyway so here it is um I said that in my mind I said the intention of this book is born out of a desire to be of assistance to those who seek and while I cannot tell you the destination I can only hope to prepare you for the journey and I feel very deeply about that statement because I don't think that I can guide anybody to do anything that they're not wanting to do already number one and number two and more importantly I don't want to you know what I'm saying so if someone comes and they want to to learn how to meditate or whatever they're going to have their own reasons for doing that now of course I can give some classical teachings and say this is what this was used for or this is what I believe this was used for and this is how you might benefit from it okay fine but ultimately someone's path is going to be their own it's going to take different twists and turn just like mine has just like yours has and just like how you know all of our listeners has but what I can do is I can help somebody prepare for what is inevitably going to be along the way and what's inevitably going to be along the way is these nine obstacles and then our view on them and specifically from our lives and then giving some techniques on how to deal with them for people's lives so it's like you know someone is saying they're going to go for a hike a hike that you've done before or that you're currently doing and you could say well based on that hike you're going to need this raincoat and uh this pocket knife and this little shovel and here's some you know I don't know trail mix uh and some La you know whatever right and you give people tools and maybe some guidance at the waypoints and like I don't know what else you could do because I can't hold everybody's hand all day long but at least if I can at a bare minimum if I could prepare somebody from what I have seen as obstacles legitimate obstacles to from life to the person and I can and I could be there at that moment or we could be there at that moment you know then I I don't know what other gift I could possibly give somebody that I can't if I couldn't be there myself for them at that time you know what I'm saying that we can coales it down into this particular thing I mean that's what we're doing with the podcast but in this casee we're going to make it into like a small little thing and I thank everybody for listening to my my ti raade here so I wonder how small it's gonna be I don't know I don't know it'll fit in your hand you know what I mean it's not gonna require a Radio Flyer to drag around you know not gonna have to be taking up a big amount of space on some old school Mainframe computer like you know yeah yeah yeah yeah the path thing is interesting when you were talking about that I have a friend now lives in Hawaii and he was going to like stop being a scientist and he was going to be like I guess kind of a mountaineer I guess you would say sounds fun and he was goingon to like you know take people on these like what were kind of like complicated hikes and I was down in Hawaii visiting him some years ago when he was really in like he ultimately didn't do it but you know he was thinking about doing that very seriously uh and um and so there these books written that are just like here's this hike and here's where people fell off here Bo and here's people fell up here yeah and I was like wow that's some serious [...] his name is David so I was like that's some serious [...] David and he was like yeah you know it's there are entire books written around you know that whole thing you know when you start talking about paths and Trail mixes I start thinking oh yeah there's books written just around that you know other people have done this hike this is where somebody fell you know or this is where something happened I mean yeah it's a it's an inspiring idea of what to do right in something like this right yeah yeah I suppose it's something we like we both think about probably people who are listening thinking about too like how do I Manifest this out right like what's the right way to try to express these things you feel some internal drive to make some difference right and how do you do it and then if you can kind of like what I guess what you're talking about if you can capture it in kind of like a mission statement yeah right like that one sentence is a mission statement yeah yeah we won't do a podcast in every sentence we write no no no no no sentence by sentence celebrate each one it's not that easy to write this [...] let's be honest you know just like put pen to paper is a big deal right it is and and look you you and I I mean we're gonna I'm gonna talk to the audience just directly right for those of you who are listening to this it's you know it's not a huge audience and some people we know quite a few people we know personally and some people we don't know at all uh we are completely aware that there is a world happening you know we don't discuss it on here because we know that it's there's plenty of places that you can get all of that [...] you know right whatever political side of the spectrum you're on I I don't particularly care you know I mean I do if you're I want people to be Pro Humanity you know what I'm saying and taking care of their their Community whether they're spiritual or just people in your neighborhood you know what I'm saying like I'm I I care for that um but it's I don't know I don't know I think like at some point in my life said well you know why am I here why is anybody here and I decided it's because we're trying to spiritually progress so I just came down with that as the idea no matter who we are no matter where we at you know some of us has easier circumstances some of us have circumstances that are really difficult and even tragic but we're all kind of chipping away right yeah maybe in one life where're the person who has it easier and another person has it harder but maybe in a different life that person will have it easier and we're the one who's going to have it harder you know you have to like think that way you know yeah that that's yeah I think I think that's probably part that's prob probably part of my point we're all like hopefully chipping away right yeah yeah we want to be a motivating force to chip away so I you know I'm not we don't bring people the the salacious news of the day you know what I'm saying but the tools that we are you know trying to share and the insights that we're trying to help people you know to unlock will change the way that you are and the way that you see things the the rest of the world I I can't do anything with you know I'm trying to just deal with my own inner world as best as I can and it's not that I'm a a isolationist in a sense we Eric and I have both consciously chosen not to enter into a monastery or not to do those things and that we're trying to share and spread some things that that have you know what we believe as positive qualities for people's lives um so I just I'm saying all this just to let people know that like we're not ignorant to the world we're we're very engaged in it we understand we know we're human beings Eric has trials and tribulations in you know work in professional life Daniel has trials and tribulations in his work in professional life it's it's a you know it's a process but at the same time we identify the things that have meaning for us you know psychos spiritually and and personally and we carve out the time to do those things and we're very lucky to be able to have found things that are inspiring for us in our lives and we we prioritize them and we repeat them over and over and over again and try and find the the Jewels within them which is and then and then share right that's the kind of thing is that that we're sharing things that have meaning for us you know what I'm saying so we certainly have individual passions for you know music and sports and sometimes we joke about that once in a while you know uh being terrible Bears fans but like this to me has more meaning this has more meaning it was I mean it's kind of like an existential move right at some point in your life you might kind of say to yourself like okay I'm going to decide that this is sort of the the truth of things this is the existential truth of things and I'm going to frame it like we're all chipping away towards this thing no matter what life is giving to us and sometimes life gives things that are very unfair right yes yep and tragically unfair and I think these Dost things recognize that I mean in that point five that we spent time on part of it's being tortured internally by your mind and part of it's unfortunately being tortured by external circumstances that can be horrific and unfair and just yeah you can care about those things and and uh it's all right and good to try to like do what you can within your powers to try to change them and stop them you know um but there's also the framing of like okay no matter who we are no matter where we are in the in the value system that I came to in the end it was something like okay we're all chipping away right yeah regardless of the circumstances that we're being presented with and that's I guess like okay so for me when you were talking about this stuff these were this was your thought of the day right kind of framing this in a way I guess the big thing you're saying is something like I can't tell you where you're where your end path is either correct right correct well what's been interesting for me in the episode like that we started last week that we're following up here is at least we can start throwing out some ideas as to what those might mean yeah right sure so I think and I've been talking with people about this and it's again we're always doing this right this is part of our life we we talk with each other in this thing yeah and we talk with other people about the same [...] right yeah and but it they mutually inspire you know what we do hear inspires the conversations that we end up having with people during the week and vice versa and then what people vice versa so um as far as what we were where we got on it last week was like the idea of like authenticity can be a goal right and then you would see these obstacles as being impediments to authenticity right and I was really drawing a lot on like Carl Rogers for this one of my favorite ologists and then it hit me down he would call these nine obstacles sort of um conditions of Worth right I did a little scare quotes thing for that um where the conditions of worth end up biasing how you think about yourself and who you are and they Dort you right and I thought well that's close that's really close to these obstacles ideas right Carl Rogers conditions of worth and then with the recognition that those things tend to happen from people who are close to you too like in these obstacles there's your family of origin could create the conditions of worth for you they might be the obstacle unfortunately right or uh your current relationship and family situation unfortunately might be the obstacle right and that might be the thing standing in the way yeah and from you know adding on that like one of the perspectives you know I like to bring is the is the shamanic perspective the one of genealogy is that like they are a product of their family and their family and their you know what I'm saying and the trauma that they have made been through and what you know and how all those um Tendencies and ideologies get get passed forward so that like a scarcity mindset while you know in today's current um economic I don't know environment might be detrimental to one's ultimate growth if you look at it from like a a capitalistic kind of perspective but for many many many generations having that mindset probably is what got them through so what once was a a means for survival now keeps those you know people who are you know entrepreneurial or who would love to be entrepreneurial it keeps them trapped in a smaller cycle because that feels safer to them than taking you know a potential business leap if we're going to look at it from a you know like a psych spiritualy psychospiritual sure yeah psych spiritual I'm too afraid to do it you know I'm standing at the end of the pool but I won't I won't jump in like I'm right there but I'm not going to do it because I'm scared and the funny thing about this like the cleverness of these [...] dos is that's the first obstruction that's it the scarcity mindset right the first one is about like scar scared too being too scared for your own security right if we go back to the Carl Rogers thing one of his favorite favorite psychologists was this psychologist named OT Ron we haven't talked about him too much but he talked about exactly that that what will hold people back will be that fear you know it'll stop you moving forward yes fear is the obstacle so I think that's almost the one and depends on how you phrase these things right you can Riff on them a little bit totally but I think like that's kind of the first riff you know scarcity mindset fears around that and I I me it's very insightful what you're saying of course this idea of like that can be coming from you know Generations within the essence that you're inhabiting now you know talk in Chinese medicine that you have your essence it's kind of like your genetic material almost a Chinese your genetic history yeah it's carried there and then your Spirit enters in your spirit has a history and then they meet but you might be carrying that sort of within the Jing of you know this essence or this Jing this Chinese term for like sort of the genetics of the person right it goes back through the lineage yes yeah go ahead yeah I guess that you know I mean it doesn't get brought up too much anymore because I don't I don't have such a fatalistic kind of a view but people you know some people have used to be more popular in asking do you know people have asked me do I believe that things are are are predetermined that they're faded that that your genetic material mixing with your the line of experience from your soul are supposed to encounter and then do the things that they do uh and that's supposed to be the way that it is and whatever happens is now immediately written and that's what was supposed to be I I'm I'm not so entirely sure that I take that attitude because what other attitude would you take that happened so it was supposed to happen okay I guess I mean you know what I mean like it doesn't really extrapolate anything that I could predict moving forward other than okay I guess that's supposed to happen so here it is again you know what I'm saying like that that argument sort of you know is a circular argument does that make sense yeah it's kind of like I mean a lot of EV evolutionary things can be like that too why did that animal grow that huge snout well because it helped it do something you know like it just goes around in a circle you know it's a little bit of um of a circular logic or something to it right turn out that way so that's how it was supposed to be exactly exactly okay that's why that that's why that monkey has a big ass okay now will backstory of like to explain why that's the case I don't know yeah maybe the baboon isn't the best example of that but um yeah you know like uh this is a riffy episode but you know s talked about that the great French philosopher and I always thinking about him when these kind of things come up because I probably have more of that attitude maybe what you have too and maybe I've gotten more extreme of with it over the over time but his big point was it used to be that we tried to explain everything because God said it was so right you know and God had everything planned out in some way where I don't think either one of us believe in a Divinity in that sense anymore do you I don't think of it that way you know even in the way when I think about the source of everything I don't think of it as like this architectural planner that built everything to I just don't think that's how it is no know you're like a a man with his hand in the puppet you know yeah we're all just like stringing I don't I don't think that's how it is no I would be a sock puppet though if I was gonna be a puppet for sure oh yeah yeah yeah I might be like like a ky frog here it might be some Muppet thing Muppet okay I just want like one googly eye you know on the hands that's it think be Grover or something um uh yeah I it's like I think those kinds of spiritualities and this is interesting because there are different kinds of spiritualities with this there probably some that talk that way yeah but I don't I kind of I'm not into those spiritualities I'm more into the ones that tend to emphasize like no there's a freedom here right a freedom of play and and experience and choice and you're operating within that know and it's you know kind of a big deal in well even in cabala or something there's a certain point where they're like okay you know even if there you think of a Divinity in that way they're still like the Divinity gave you Freedom that's what the Divinity did you know so that now you can kind of work your way through and that's this this is a good point actually you know sometimes we riff and come back to good good points and I think we did actually I had a a conversation with a friend of mine a few months ago we were headed into the city we're spent some time in the car driving and uh um he was like you know how do you know that that you have freedom well do you believe you have freedom and then how do you know it I said well because I could jump out of this car right now yeah he like he's like but you know do can you really would you I said well I could but I'm not going to because then I'll be we're on a freeway I'm GNA get run over by a bunch of other cars but I could do it yeah and if not in my right state of mind there's a chance that I might and if I wanted to end my life then would be able to do that but I have the choice to do that and the same thing goes for all the things that we do and and I and I more and more as I'm thinking about it it really is a gift actually to have that mindset that you believe that you are at least co-authoring Your Own Story I mean we've talked about I used that language specifically in previous episodes but it really is I don't think that many people I can't say many I don't know what percent you know but like I don't know how many people people have that ideology that mindset that like you are free to do as you would like it's amazing how these things double back because that's one of the things I had as a goal as far as these obstacles go like how do you start setting what might you might think of as being your goals and part of it was like I was going to go to like existential stuff it starts this existential philosopher but you're talking about freedom and that's his wheelhouse right and so he's definitely on the point of like no have freedom in a moment by way because it's true M if I decided I didn't want to I could slam the lid on this computer and say [...] this [...] and walk away done who could stop me nobody no you know I don't choose to do that because I enjoy talking to you and I want to do this podcast but if I decided I didn't want to do something I could go and he makes that big point of like the fact that we think we can't is our own delusion yes now where that where that fits in those obstacles could go in many ways right maybe you don't do it because you think that you have a scarcity mindset and you're driven by fear obstacle number one maybe you don't do it because you think your family would disapprove of what you're doing obstacle number two maybe don't do it because you think your partner or you know your family now you know wouldn't allow you to do that you know so you don't or your work obstacle number four like it's interesting the way it plays out right yeah but you know if you get to obstacle number five the thought that you can't do that yeah even the thought that you're not free to do that I think in the kind of spiritual that spirituality that we're talking about or the kind of psychology and philosophy that's a delusion yeah I could quit my job tomorrow you absolutely could nothing you know I don't want to because I like it but I could yeah you know and and uh that's what s kind of points out you know that the fact that we think that we can't is like some lie that we tell oursel and so in a certain sense I mean another one I added to the list of what is what are these things obstacles for they're obstacles towards this experience of uh I have it written right here personal authentic freedom and meaning you know so if I really thought that like doing this podcast wasn't meaningful I could quit it you know and I would quit it but I don't I don't think that's true so I don't you know I think it does have meaning you know or if I thought some other part of my life didn't have meaning and was isn't valuable in adding to me or adding to others or whatever the arti you want to do you could walk and the that you think you don't isn't is illusion and I think his point is like you used to blame it on God right God won't let me do it and then you know some people veered away from God and they got more into the Sciences the way he's analyzing things and now you say biology won't let you do it but biology can't stop you you know what I mean you could you could do something different in the moment by- moment way I've had this like discussion with people in the same way Daniel yeah I hear exactly what you're talking about I'm sorry you had something else you wanted to say about it yeah I for I I I sort of lost it there it's all good a [...] okay no problem that's fine yeah yeah but you know that's like I guess we were talking about like God or the Sciences holding you back does that does that click it back no okay anyway so I mean like that was one of the things I was thinking about you know like if you look at these obstacles what are the obstacles towards oh yeah I got it now oh shoot yeah before we l it yeah so we're talking about obstacles to people's growth but inherently like again we're going to use the the the you know the path as as an analogy right like just so imagine a walking path and these are going to be things that are inevitably going to come up in your way or that you might have put in your own bag and that are slowing you down depending on what image works best for you you know but ultimately I think you and I and we haven't really talked about it specifically you and I believe that ultimately there is a movement towards Freedom now or towards you know whatever and maybe that'll be the next episode will be what is freedom what is Enlightenment what is you know and we could talk about the things that you had mentioned previously right individuation whatnot so little teaser for next time uh because we do want to say okay what do we what is this for obstacles to what you know um but that like you are inevitably going to have to go through them because they are learning potential they are learning opportunities so we're not saying I'm not giving people these we're not giving people these things as a warning to avoid it's not it's not that it's to say like wake up this is what's happening to you right now understand what the situation that you're in so instead of being inundated by whatever confusion fear anger whatever responsiveness reactivity whatever it is say no this is what happens this is this has been discussed long ago and now here we are discussing it again in in order to hopes to illuminate that situation for yourself so that you don't you know continue to rinse and repeat the same Cycles over and over again that there are things that you can do to free yourself maybe not in the immediate moment right so you know Eric is talking about like he could quit the podcast at any time and we could quit our job at at any time and this is true but some people have you know responsibilities other humans who rely on them as you do you know your son is still you know a young bustling fellow making his way through the Chess World you know he he can't drive himself to these things Eric you know Daddy's I wouldn't be able to like pay for the gas right yeah could quite expensive now he's not earning enough with his chess winnings to even pay for his gas fair you know yes soon soon soon enough Eric's going to say hey little guy go ahead pump it up and use your card this time you know yeah and I'll be just like sitting around meditating and you can yeah uhuh right but so you know so you could you could quit but you have other responsibilities that you that you have to T like you know start's point is that like to think that you can't you really could you might choose not to but you could right yeah and but the the the point is that you're choosing not to and and so what I'm saying is that like okay but he's not going to be a young he's not going to be a young pup forever he you know God willing he grows graduates high school goes off to college or you know becomes a a chess Pro and and you know whatever takes care of himself you're free to do whatever you want and and I had this conversation Eric with many many many of my clients because I'm I'm lucky enough to be um in the position where I get to work with people who are you know some Executives and business owners and what like and whatnot and can actually retire not at like 75 you know they just work themselves to the Bone then just like you know pass out on the couch all day long you know what I mean like that's not a retirement that's just waiting for death essentially um but they have many of them the majority of them unfortunately have a very difficult time moving into a retirement kind of Life phase because they haven't cultivated themselves and this is one of the one of the obstacles right obstacle number eight or nine or something right the fifth one actually the fifth one is the one that we get stuck on because it says in your youth you were unwilling to cultivate and in old age you continue to injure your spirit you know yeah oh they kind of like do it again later on Daniel it's really funny because later on they say I'll get to it next year I'll get to it next year yeah the procrastination yeah that one too later on yeah and so what we're saying is that like even if you have responsibilities and you could choose to quit whatever you're doing because you don't enjoy doing it but you have to because people will starve and you know police might come for you at some point you know what I'm saying unless you leave the country or whatever but so you're going to you're going to choose to continue don't wait for the moment that you hit rock bottom to then look up and see the light you know and say oh [...] I got to change no it's like put the work in now even if it's just a little bit at a time and when the opportunity comes when you get that break that you can breathe right your kids are graduated from high school or you know something happens and and you know your financial situation changed and you have a little bit of breathing room that like now you might have a little bit more time and what are you going to do with it if you haven't cultivated anything you're looking at a a a a virgin planter box with no seeds planted at all and so we're hoping to to help people to Foster the the the the cultivation of themselves in that way by discussing the obstacles and the life circumstances that are literally going to be in your way it's interesting to me because because there's a range of attitudes here and what I kind of have learned about myself partially doing the podcast partially from interactions with other people who are important to me is you know and it and it does matter in how we talk about these things here like I'm a little bit more kind of radical on these things than other people sure so I really am more like H these things are things that you you try to catch early sure and solve them because they can ens snare you for sometimes big chunks of your life so my attitude is probably more radical than other people and I'm willing to kind of own that sometimes we'll have conversations and it'll be like we're talking about a range of people who have different needs at different times sure which I'm willing to accept too right you know people are in different places in their life and they're doing different things but I suppose in a certain sense because of who I am and because of my my personal experiences around these things my attitude is like ch to Veer more towards a radical thing and I've been talking with people about that within the last couple of weeks I'm like well okay listen you know I'm going to own this and I'm just gonna say my attitude towards things is face them now you know yeah and and I was try think where does that come from and I was thinking a lot about like the Buddha story and that story is taken on new meanings to me again so if you don't know the Buddha story too much it's really that he leaves the palace like he's raised to be a Prince he's going to be the king and he leaves and actually it's like a very complicated story uh in the sense that he also has he has a wife and a kid he has a whole life and he leaves you know and I I've had different thoughts about that recently that I've been talking with people about it where I first was like man like when I first heard it I heard it from Joseph Campbell and you know it sounded like a myth you know when he was explaining it so I took it with that feeling you know of it being like an educational myth and I'm I'm cool with educational myths I like get educational myth You Know But as time has gone on and maybe with like life experience I've looked back at it in like different ways so more recently I was talking with some people about this including Ryan Davenport our Anthropologist on retainer um and I was going well how does this St story strike you because like that dude must have been if you make that real that dude must have been pretty disgusted on some level with his situation to do that it's such a radical dramatic thing to do if you make the story real and you don't make it about this magical figure you make it about an actual human that's a radical thing like he must have really like wanted to get out really badly you know and he must have like thought to himself I better get out of this now you know before I have to be the prince or the king before like he made a rad so it's a radical position you know and I also you know thought about it in terms of like you know that element of him like he must have had really you know these you know negative feelings about what was happening if you make that real but I also thought in a certain sense he's advising like a radical change you know he's really saying like radically change yourself and and like I think it does matter for how we write the book and how we do the podcast because sometimes I'm like I'm more of an advocate towards that yeah really I'm like change this stuff change it you know before it's it gets too sticky you know and I was thinking about the story today and I was thinking okay um like he didn't just go and become like the prince in the Kingdom like the next Kingdom over right he didn't go well I'm leaving this Kingdom I'll go take on the same gig next door and I was thinking you that's so often what people do they go through and they're like I me I mean you see it all the time I do too they're working in one corporate job and it makes them miserable I know this is actual folks I'm talking about and they go well I'm gonna change this one I'll take this next one and you're like the same [...] that you didn't like over there is gonna be the same [...] over here it's not that different you really haven't changed it you know or someone's in one relationship and they break it up or they divorce and then they immediately do the other one the next one the same you're like you haven't changed it you haven't done what Buddha says you know around these obstacles so this is really about these obstacles too because you can see in what Buddha does is he goes boom and he blows them up you know it's a much more kind of radical thing I'm not saying that's appropriate for everybody I agree that it's not but I like to voice that like you know and what we get a chance to talk about just say yeah there is something about that you can go through and you can do the more radical thing and what's interesting is like Buddha does that you know like like there's something about that that really like uh I think of a lot with the work that we're doing you know that if you put the Play-Doh in the in the Square little mold and you pull it out and you're like well I don't like the shape of that playdo and then you mush it up again and you take a different thing of Play-Doh and maybe you change it from like hand to beige but you put it in the square hole again you're gonna get a square correct it's gonna pop out as a square again you know yeah yeah and I'm I'm thinking about people I know my actual life where I'm like Wow you went right from one corporate thing right to the next corporate thing you didn't really change it you know so you didn't you didn't get out of that obstacle if it's number four yeah didn't really fix it you went from obstacle number four to a different version of obstacle you know what I'm trying to say I I hear you it's a different version of obstacle number four so let's go and look at obstacle number four yeah and rethink it you know I've seen it over and over again kind of like it's one of those things where it kind of like you feel you feel like you care about people and you know you want the best and It's upsetting you know uh and you feel compassion and you feel love and you feel these feelings you also feel a little frustration you know totally yeah again you know like that relationship is exactly the same as this one you just didn't really change it so you never really changed obstacle number three you never did it you know and I somehow when I was thinking about episodes like you know we were I knew we were going to be talking about this stuff today I was like yeah that's like so much at the heart of this right and I I got to the idea like yeah the Buddha story is making that that strong point now we're not all GNA like blow up our lives and head out into the into the you know the Indian like uh wildness searching for teachers and you know doing what the Buddha did but like I it's it struck me like it's it is a more it is a more radical point of view and I think I somehow that first hearing it from Joseph Campbell and then taking that on and maybe you're not going to do that with all parts of your life that wouldn't be reasonable or if you have responsibilities that you can't keep you can't just go and blow up your job you know true but like even if the weird thing about it is even if like we get the freedom of choice right even when people have the choice to do it different a lot of times they don't that's the obstacle part too if that makes sense what I'm trying to say yeah then you realize well that's something in you you have a problem with this obstacle because you just went from that version of the same one to another version of the same one right so that's something that you can look at in yourself and you can say ah you know okay this is not happening because I'm compelled to do this because of important circumstances I have responsibilities in the outside world no this is something I have to look at in me I have an issue around this and we can all maybe at the end of these nine look in the mirror and say oh [...] you know I am repetitive on that one yeah you know I am repetitive on that one and I could I me we all can do it I can do it you can do it we can all look at this you know like I can look at myself and go man [...] I do that repetitively don't I yeah so anyways I was thinking about that part of it too and it did Vibe with what you're talking about with freedom Yeah because sometimes it is like I have the choice to like change it but I'm not going to do that because I have these responsibilities I want to keep them perfectly legit yeah right but sometimes it's not that sometimes it's more like why do I keep doing this one again you know and then it's a different way of thinking about that obstacle then it's then it's in a certain sense is that I guess that gets your question is that choice anymore if I could just keep redundantly doing the same thing I don't know and then that becomes some sorrow right the wheel keeps spinning and the same [...] numbers keep appearing over and over again you get a little suspicious of that roulette wheel I just I just had somebody reach out to me uh the other like three days ago and say this very thing that they are ready ready for a change kids are graduating high school and U they've been doing the same job for like 18 years and they cannot imagine doing the same thing anymore it doesn't seem life doesn't seem real because it's so repetitive and monotonous for them um and so they're looking for uh they're looking for a deep change and you know they call me more power to them more power to him yeah I'm like man welcome come on yeah you know let's let's go and so so yeah it's it's conversations like you know what you're saying like this is what we you know we carry this around you know what I mean we can't we we're always carrying this with us and so and we do hope that the conversations that you know you and I are having are legitimately like affecting people in the conversations and the thoughts that they are having and who what what they are sharing in their lives you know um and it would also be nice if they would share our work with other people and that you can do that by you know uh telling them about podcast you can also you know like subscribe and uh you know comment on the YouTube video or leave us an email at Jin and Tantra gmail.com or hit us up on the Instagram Jin and Tantra podcast you could certainly do uh any or all of those things you can leave the podcast a like or review on Apple podcast it helps out the uh you know helps us out in that part uh and the little algorithm gets us noticed by other people you know so I know like most the people who listen are not subscribers that that's borne out from not only our Channel but like most of the channels that are out there yeah pretty much every channel but even if you're not a subscriber share it with somebody else because if you like what we're doing this this helps us grow and um you know it's it's nice that to get feedback from folks so share our work hit us up um you know we're sponsored by our [...] selves so um yeah we don't we don't ask for nothing for people other than uh to like and share so I've said it enough times I think I think they got it you you know that's the ending of every episode that was very smoothly transitioned beautiful that's how it goes is like it's interesting episode in the sense it was like it's it's an interesting one because it's kind of emotional yeah I like I like the feeling of this episode because it's coming from an emotional Place yeah there's a there's a there's a through line here this is this is this is a stream we just you dip your finger or your toe or your whatever uh but the stream's still running when you take it out whever body part you want to dip in there yeah it's whatever free world you're free you're free to tip you want do it do it that's a universe that's it all right by the way thank you so much for coming on uh today we'll we'll continue uh next week fingers crossed as long as we're still here and uh we hope everybody has a uh a good rest of your day or evening whatever time you're listening to this so for Eric uh this is Daniel we'll catch youall on the next one peace [Music]