[Music] hey tears those of us who like our spirituality with a Twist so we're in the midst of doing a big thing on Karma mudra we finally got to it after years of being called Jin and Tantra finally talking about the Saucy stuff but we wanted to really get do it in our way which is to do it in like a kind of a deeply spiritual respectful kind of a way so you know we've been doing episodes based Dr Nita's stuff and we had gotten to the point where it was really like how do you start thinking about who are relevant partners for this right part of that had to do with you might say qualifications of the person themselves right yeah and then some of it that's in previous episodes and some of it had to do with like the vibe between two people the special karmic bond between two folks right and you know I think it's very cool that Dr Nita talks about it that way recognizing okay there's qualities of the individual person and then there's the special quality that two people can get together yeah I was I was discussing this with a friend of mine the other day that like it's the there is something it's not separate of course but it is it's in a live uh Vibe the relationship that you have with people isn't a live vibe that is the it's greater than the sum of its individual Parts I.E it's greater than you and that person it's its own thing that is that is there that is a living breathing thing when you're connected with that person physically or just you know emotionally psychologically or whatever there's there's something to it that is is more than than what it than the individual Parts yeah it's kind of like even in the astrological aspect when two people get together it creates like a new birth chart for the two of them or something right you know you can think of it that way if you're into that kind of thing or in the we're going to later on talk about like the subtle channels and the body and all this kind of stuff because we'll go deep like that too once we get to the point of talking about you know the meditations and the visualizations and all that but the idea is like you know those subtle bodies between those two people are resonating and it creates where people will have the same thought at a distance right people that will actually happen or you'll kind of know what the other person's thinking you know why is that happening it's because there's a deep resonance between the energies of those two people and I think what's also interesting about that is it kind of defies space then on some level once you get to those energies it's not they're not as contingent to like spatial demands you can call it like quantum mechanics or something if you're a sciency person right sure you're entangled you know your energies and that other person's energies are entangled you're your your spirits are entangled on some level using one of our beloved words Shen the Shen of the two people are entangled so I mean that's a deep set of ideas so you know that's part of it and then we also kind of opened up a little bit of this thing on the exclusiveness uniqueness thing popped up again you know because there's cultural differences around this that are worthwhile talking about now from my point of view because this is like a hot to topic for my mind all the time I do want to do some episode ultimately on like the tonra of Esther Perell or something like that because it's also nicely click baity whenever her name pops up but uh I didn't want to have our thing when we're doing this get too tanged off or bog down in that part so we'll get to that in some future time but I did have kind of a weird weekend Epiphany we were talking about our weekends and our epiphanies off mic beforehand and I'd kind of sort of my own which I didn't get a chance to tell you about I'll share just briefly about it sure so it was like I was in a very intensive kind of meditative thing over the weekend I have like cabalistic parts of my roots to psychos spiritually right and I've done a lot of those meditations very intense kind of serious ones um and I think kabala will be a subject matter for some point for us in the future that we haven't done that so we still have more [...] to talk about still got you surprisingly for four [...] years we still haven't got through things we haven't done a single like really Dost episode even yet crazy well we had with with with Rory I definitely did but well we we've had things where we brought it up we've never done like okay here's the Deep dive into this so anyways spiritual Waters actually Eric that's not true we had plenty of episodes on the nine things that could [...] up your life which are totally DST so that is true yeah that is true I see that as like kind of like okay so there's still other like there's still other dos things to do but any my little mini Epiphany I I came I I had to attribute it I'm always interested like which meditations have which effects so you know there was a yam kapor energy going on and so I always take that time to do these cabalistic meditations it's a big purification thing sure and I do do the fast and everything around that and then uh in the evening it's kind of funny the way it works out because the evening is always a special day on the Tibetan calendar because it's the 10th day of the lunar month so I end up doing sort of my vadana more Buddhist Tantra thing so it's a very diverse day for me but long and I did all the thing and then like on Sunday I was kind of back out in the world which for me consisted of like taking my son to a chess tournament and then hanging out and trying to help my mom who's this 84 year old lady she gets mentioned at times on our little podcast I was taking my mom shopping and I was in the parking lot and I was you know I think about our episodes you know before we do them you know the thoughts surround them will run through my mind and I was just thinking all this and I had like I don't know I could describe it it was one of those little epiphanous moments where I was like well you know for me I was walking into the the parking lot of the uh of the grocery store where my mom was already wandering around with the cart who knows where the [...] she is she just disappears in the store 84y old wanding around randomly randomly and I was like thinking I was like you know I just don't I had that the realization like I just don't want what other people want on some intrinsic level you know and in that sense it's a different place for me even when we get to these exclusiveness uniqueness things and some of these other things something happened to my personality over the years of spiritual practice which you might call the zenic or the datic or the tarrification or something whatever will work and I I know I don't want the same things and it like of course I already knew that but it hit me with this bang emotional Clarity which also May me feel I don't know kind of like very compassionate to people in different ways is like okay you know we all want our own things I don't want the same things as other people sure and there was something like very kind of healing about that you know um on some weird emotional level that's kind of hard to describe but I thought I'd give a shot describing it you know I mean it seems like very clarifying on some level yeah I mean it seems like a deep aspect of self-acceptance you know and acknowledgement that your own desires for your life are not only different from other people but that like that's okay and you could you could and should be able to own that for yourself I think accepting of other folks too it kind of went both ways and it was a little bit like I obviously comes through this podcast at different times where I'm like people want this [...] I don't totally understand it right right you know but people got their own Vibes and there was sort of an acceptance like okay I guess people are into this in a way that I'm not you know uh so there was s of like that happened it was interesting and I I we we hadn't talked about this but there's like sometimes I'll talk about three fact actors in doing Tantra right from the Buddhist point of view Buddhist Tantra they'll say you want compassion for other people yeah right which also has to do with like an empathy and acceptance right you want wisdom which in Buddhism has a lot to do with like this idea of shun maybe they'll pop up in our episode today we'll see and then this idea of what they call you know I think because for me I'm in this DOL Lama school is s of one of my home bases in this right they use this phrase renunciation and I've always had a real hard time with that word pronunciation I don't it's very monastic sounding to me and it's I've never felt entirely comfortable with that as the word you know renunciation but it kind of hit me that like a better word for that for my feeling of things would be like Transcendence you know I want to transcend something and that that was the first time I felt comfortable with that language so I went okay maybe for what we're doing I'll say compassion wisdom Transcendence or something are those Eric would you say those are kind of like the three antidotes for the for the three major sufferings you know I think that's how it plays back yeah so like this you know just for people because if if I if we don't do it people be like what uh you know three sufferings right like suffering of change wisdom of impermanence or wisdom that things are constantly changing is would be for that one the renunciation or the Transcendence would be probably for uh would be the antidote for the suffering of uh conditioning yeah it could be that way yeah yeah right in a different way than even I would I wasn't thinking of it this way going in but continue I like it yeah will be the because and and conditioning because you've talked about this before as like the conditioning of society the conditioning of family the conditioning of gender the conditioning of the humanity but then you know that which is which is our take on it which is cool but then I think the deeper deeper one is the conditioning of like the self-identification you know I think of like in the Dal Lama school and galupa they kind of weave those two things together in an interesting way I was very struck by that because they'll take all those conventional social truths you were talking about and then they'll weave in also the the other part of like what you might call like a selflessness or something realizing okay I'm appearing as an Eric but deep down I got this Buddha nature that's this Transcendent thing that's like a super rock star yeah yeah yeah yeah Beyond me or something yeah yeah yeah yeah and so that would be the one that that would be uh the the wisdom and then Transcendence and then the compassion part would be for people on a more perhaps mundane level something along the lines of like the suffering of their lives the suffering of their bodies the suffering of their minds the suffering of the you know the senses things like this not having enough having too much whatever those kinds of those kinds of things I mean when you say that that's what comes that's what kind of like yeah yeah I hear what you're saying saying sometimes they'll talk about like ethics and uh uh concentration in wisdom as like another Trio so I was almost hearing that too and it's kind of a parallel thing but it's the one they do sort of more in the tantas right you know or the the Mahayana version of that where you have to have the compassion in there too and it probably relates back to things like uh ignorance attachment and like aversion or hostility yeah there probably some connection between all those things yeah yeah what was striking to me is and it was kind of great because I did all the meditations I really love on Saturday it was sort of like a meditation celebration and uh but they use that I did like what they call self-empowerment where in buddist Tantra if you do a longer retreat on something you can kind of redo the initiation for yourself okay so I tend to do that twice a month uh on the special days of the Buddhist calendar and you know it's interesting because it almost gets to what you were talking about there's a little part of those um initiation kind of meditations and rituals where they say I'm going to work for the benefit of Ury beings you know and it kind of like maybe tries to pull some of that stuff together maybe some of the mundane stuff you're talking about and the compassion things and also the wisdom you know and it's a weird way to phrase it but it does capture this idea on some level we're all kind of aery right um on my little shower curtain of wisdom I got one of the ones from one of the main sort of Shaman I forget the guy's name and i' I had it you would know it but he's one of the main kind of iasa practitioner Shaman and all that and I just can't remember the guy's name I feel bad about it I mean I mean I mean the the most famous Shaman of in in our is he alive or recently recently so it might be Alberto viodo or Michael Harner maybe the first one Alberto voodo yeah but he talks about you know one of the main aspects this is like in your wheelhouse more than mine but like just pop in my head because he says one of the main realizations that the medicine gives is the realization that these things are illusionary yeah totally yeah yeah yeah yeah that's that's like when when a lot of times not all the time but sometimes when people take some you know hallucinatory type thing even LSD they will begin to see like fractals right they'll be you know and so you're starting to see the fabric in which reality the substrate of reality you know the the the the tantric view the the weavings you know of all the various aspects of this I don't know how do you say it this life you know what I'm saying coming from the the preconceived the potentiality into the into this more formed realm you know you can you can see through the veil it's even difficult to describe and I know and I I'm SM I'm smiling cuz it's we're going deep in this episode didn't expect yeah I mean I can see it because I've seen it but it's so but it's such a difficult thing to describe because it's just not it's not it's it's conceptual but it's non-conceptual it's the M you know it's the mandala of existence in the way in which that I might perceive it at that moment with the help of X thing that's a very good way of describing it actually that's no but like it's funny because like I remember having this thing even like maybe from sort of more the int ual point of view in a way but it got to be experiential for me when I was studying physics way way back in the day I was walking around going there's an energetic Matrix going on here I'm seeing a world but I can also see it through the prism of like there's all these different energies and Fields and all this [...] that I'm not like you know once I start taking that [...] for reals you know that's what's going on under the current and it under the surface and it's not that different than like a Mandela or no it is a Mandela is yeah it is a Mandela it is a Mandela and our friend of the show Neil th would agree yeah yeah yeah and who has to come back on again our friend of the show we got talk to him some more about that he's awesome yeah but I had like a thing where well we were joking when he was on because I teach this class on like physics for chines medical people and when we do the standard model of physics I'm always like yeah this is a Melo folks you know it is it's this is the underlying energetic Matrix and you try to flip it and you say like when we do like in our Chinese medical world the five phases or the five elements or in the the TC World we're talking about where there's these elements of different kind of densities or something right more they have their own subtleties to them right and like it's it's not that different from physics those are Fields it's the same [...] okay I didn't expect this to do it but it's cool we're deep yeah you don't know where this is going to go we're on a little bit of a roll so um so okay so that was s of my thing and then realized like you know okay um in some way some of this uniqueness and exclusive stuff is a result of my training in these pasts that more have more of a uniqueness vibe to them sure and probably also things that are much more challenging to like conventional truth in the way we're talking about before yeah and so you kind of just start challenging a whole bunch of stuff which I guess gets to but I want to do it yeah I I think this uniqueness exclusive this thing from Esther Perell is awesome and deserves more discussion but you know I thought well pushing it forward we'll go and we'll talk about how this plays out for people you know what hit me is like you know a tantra culture is more uniqueness based this is more of an exclusivist culture for sure okay but let's look at it in the biggest picture and say maybe the last pieces of what it feels like to figure out who's going to be your partner and what you're going to take out of this still left to be maybe a little bit discussed so I I don't what you think about this but I just wanted to point out like a few things in the brief version get your reaction to it and then we'll see right on the one hand the thing that kind of bugged me was the presence of claas even if you're being an exclusiveness person has to be talked about talk about claa is yeah yeah so yeah the claa is kind of a Buddhist term for like the negative aspects of the emotions right and uh I think it's a very cool system and that they tied it in with the energies or the elements right so we talked about a little bit before but each uh each element gets sort of its own claa associated with it right so if you go to like the Earth element they talk about ignorance if you go to the water element they talk about certain kinds of like possessiveness when you talk about the fire element it's sort of like the more toxic unhealthy access of attachment when you get to the element of like energy or Prana they talk about it with jealousy and envy and when you talk about the aspect of more like Consciousness or or just they use the word Consciousness so let's leave that one out there right they talk about anger and so I think no matter who you are whether your orientation to the world is more uniqueness or exclusiveness in the estra parel way these are still claes that are certain to have to be dealt with right yeah and I felt like again no matter who you are you're going to like have to face these if we look at it from like like maybe the exclusiveness perspective you know maybe the more traditional relationship the more traditional monogamous relationships I think it still has to be addressed that if you're in that relationship frame you still have to get over these things right you mean in terms of a relation in terms of a a Duo yeah and also like in yourself I have to learn how not to be a possessive person I have to learn how not to be like toxically attached to another person even in the context of that kind of setting you know what I'm saying yeah for sure or I have to learn how to not be jealous I have to learn how to like I have to get over these things right as a way of purifying out even my own energies yeah purifying the relationship out with the other person and what kind of has hit me and this was like in a Flash from one of the Buddhist goddesses from years ago she was saying like Okay one of the things that can happen is that you can get these ways of approaching your interactions with other people that get loaded up with these toxicities and it's going to [...] [...] up sure right and in the end again again I'm curious what you think but I think that's where you get so much when these things get challenged where you get so much of this just negative behavior and negative Expressions start to erupt out because if you haven't come to terms with these things again whether uniqueness person or exclusiveness probably that doesn't even matter yeah it doesn't matter but on some level you can see when people get threatened and challenged when they have those possess things and those kind of toxic attachments you know you're not comfortable with how you're attaching to other people you know those fire energies aren't doing what they're supposed to in the more ideal way or the jealousies these kinds of things when those go all wrong when they're there and they're kind of woven into what's happening between two people then when things get funky you get a lot of anger and a lot of ignorance that erupts out of that and people start acting out and things get all kind of crazy so I I just wanted to share it because I think whether no matter which way you're going to be in this you're GNA have to somehow come to terms with this you know yeah I think in the ex in the uniqueness thing you get challenged in different ways because you have to kind of look at your jealousies and your other things in different ways okay but regardless I think those things have to be weeded out because I think we all have seen this in people you know something starts to go wrong between people and there's there eruptions of these angers you know that can even go to like emotional violence or physical violence and like I don't see any way that you can do something more tantric with another person until those things are being kind of addressed out so I wanted to throw it out to you and see what you think again it came from me as a flash from one of the goddesses she binged me with this a couple of years ago and it it was obviously stuff that I had sort of thought about but not with that Clarity and she just went hey you got to look at this bang yeah maybe 2022 I got the knock on the Noggin during a meditation session about this so anyways I'm trying to share it so so I'm looking at some of my notes that we did you know when we recorded last and some of the things that you we we talked about here a couple of them in particular we talked about shared bonds and passions you know and then the next one that you mentioned specifically that he talked about in the book was this idea of being having freedom from pettiness and so and so I'll I'll just I'll relate those back to this so that we're kind of like building on previous episodes a little bit so we'll start Freedom from pettiness um pettiness in a sense that like if you feel that you own something you have a a you have a right to it you know what I'm saying and that it is within your rights to treat that thing how you would treat anything else and the way we do something is the way that we do most things my teacher Andre taught me that a long time ago and I I believe this to be true you know so if you are going to develop a a tantric partnership a tantric tantric relationship even if it's just for practice maybe not necessarily like a you know a relationship you know romantic one or whatever you are going to have to come as open as you can with somebody because you're going to connect deep very deep deeply on an energetic level and so you're going to be exposing them to your internal process and I I'm going to say that like I'm going to view Our Lives as they are unfolding as an active internal process of development right so you are exposing somebody to your internal process of active development as it's unfolding as the science experiment is happening right and so that means that not everything is going to be perfect but you have to be free or at least with the idea that you're you can uh Sid step or work through your own limitations of anger attachment ignor you know you have to be able to handle those okay so that's on on one hand now why would you do that because of your shared Bond and passion so the the shared bond that you are cultivating again with this being with this person as we're talking about this is from a Karma muja perspective or even from a uh Kamasutra perspective your passion is to build this Bond and so simultaneously both people have to come pause for effect yes pause forf both both but both people have to step into the arena with a very similar um intention in terms of being aware of their own limitations and being willing to to share them and then also work through them and if only one person is doing that or one person has a lot more than the other one it it makes the practice very very difficult not impossible but very difficult because you're again you're coming from it from from two very different places and it is rare as in extension from our conversation earlier my friend very rare to be able to find someone to actually practice with who can embody some of the things that you both hold sacred and be willing to work on themselves as you are for both people to be willing to work on themselves as you work together as the relationship the the the tantric pairing you know the union of the two souls for some time to to equal or to be greater than the sum of its individual Parts both people have to step into it with the same kind of energy of stepping over their sort of individual limitations that ultimately are the uh fuel for their own personal growth and then when you add those together now you got something now you got you know you got uh the the smiley face with the exploding head emoji the little brain exploding out the top or something right totally the crown chakra going funky that's that's right yeah yeah yeah yeah I think like if I at like what I was thinking about over the weekend I just went well what do I really care about deep down yeah because you know all of us in our lives have our emotional roller coasters of love roller coaster of Love yeah so you know we all have ridden this thing in our own different ways and I got to the deep down of it and I was like well you know if I really look at this honestly what do I really want for myself I do want to share this with another person I love the idea of sharing this but I want to I don't even know what to call it want to have this Transcendent experience I want that and I also want to understand I don't know what the word would be meditative reality or something I want to understand the world from that Z maybe that's a a zeni way of talking I want to like have the subjective experience of as much as I can understand reality yeah it's again it's Tantra it's Zen it's dosm it's Sufism it's the thing that things that we know in love cabala too you want to have that experiential understanding of reality that you get from these multiple routes right and that's what I really want and like you know fighting that sweet spot I was like okay that's what I care about and that's the reason why some of these things are different at least for me I don't have as many dogs in this fight I don't necessarily want some of the things other people want I want this right you know so my career can go up and down that's okay you know other things can go up and down you know I love other people I want them to be happy you know family and friends and all that I don't care but I have less of a I have less of an investment on some level you know and then you know you want to find I was you know you sort of feel like okay I want to find other people who want to do that too you know I was talking with somebody about this and I was like you know that ended up being the hardest thing ironically enough you know to find people that you can share this with you know because you're right it is a more rare thing to find someone who wants that and also somehow you have that deeper karmic bond with them that's not that's not like uh falling off of every tree right those are a little bit more special connections between people right and then you know think you have to really value them if they cross your path just to add to it right that's something you should put a lot of like o this is not an everyday thing this is something I should put value on but you Different Strokes for different folks as far as it goes um because that was part of what I had with what you were saying which I totally agree with right and then the other part just to say it to go back to like the cla's ideas I think there is something where we have to acknowledge that the culture doesn't always judge those negative live in a cultural spot where people aren't always judging those things negative and I think the Buddhist God has wanted that to be understood you know there's something we have to say is it really like we're really judging possessiveness toxic aspects of attachment jealousy negative sometimes in our cultures we don't no matter who you are right and I think that's something you have to challenge yeah and then that that'll make your whole connection with the person go easier but it's something we have to work on in ourselves right as well as trying to build that with another person right yeah and and the way that it's done sometimes is very like sneaky so you know somebody will Express that they were you know I don't know acting in a possessive way you know with in regards to their partner and the response is not hey man that's weird you know that's not cool the response is oh hell yeah I don't let them do that you know what I'm saying oh interesting okay yeah you know what I mean mean um like and why do I say this I'm just remember I had this I saw this weird um it's not an advertisement but there's some stupid thing it's called five minute crafts and it's these people who make these random crafts in like a five minute of course it's sped up but what was this five minute craft this person was making they took an apple tracker I don't know what they're called Tags Apple tags okay and then you could put these things in like your wallet and so if you can't need to find your wallet you open your phone and say Hey where's my app got it you put in your in your luggage it's a it's an interesting invention this woman HIIT it in the tongue of her husband's shoe okay well why would you need that that's weird if you want to if you want to track his ass when he's not paying attention yeah that that is some possessive ass Behavior yeah that someone decided to make a five minute video on and now people watch it you know what I'm saying like does it have like a three million hits on it or something how to make that of course yeah yeah of course you know what I'm saying but like I don't you know I'm not looking at all the comments but I'm just saying like no someone's like oh people will like this they'll think it's cool like no I don't think it's cool I think it's weird yeah and I think that applies like again like across the board if you're just going to say I want to like become a more or tanty person or something you have to sort of say like okay part of this is overcoming this regardless of my relationship orientation yeah exclusiveness or whatever this is going to like something these things have to go one way or the other no matter what your goals are how you're going to try to live your life the other thing we kind of hit on I had in the note so I'll just like mention it kind of brief is that there's also because these things can be conventional truths you have to be willing to have someone where you're going to like we're gonna overcome the conventional truths together well yeah whatever those things are yeah so it has to happen that's overcoming pettiness and also trying to develop wisdom right assuming that you are having these discussions with someone you're you are hopefully going to be able to sit there and say like I don't know that things exist the way that they appear yeah yeah and then the you know that element and then the sociocultural elements of like I'm getting rid of conventional troops I'm jetting them you know it was interesting I was listening toen Chon who's like like uh the woman who's uh with speris vaati nunnery or something I forget what they call it sperati something or other whatever I don't think they call a nuny so she's like a big PE person in the kind of the Daly Lama school right and she actually runs a nunery in the United States and it was a little synchronistic thing because I got her audiobook it was for free and I need nice Buddhist things to listen to and she's going over the 37 PA that you were talking about a few episodes ago and she was hitting really hard on the idea that I think is in all of these things that you part of Daoism or Zen or any of these things is you jettison the stuff that is false you just okay I've learned this stuff I'm going to jettison it so and that's part of like the overcoming the mundane conceptions and appearances a lot of this stuff is like in that conventional truth range the only last thing I wanted to say about it was like promoting freedom in people right you have to like allow your partner space to grow and develop no matter who you are right and you know you want to make sure it says something about this in the T too you don't want to cut people off off from their freedoms and opportunities to do things whatever that means in your connection with that person they need to have space you know to be able to grow change and develop right I think sometimes it can happen that people try to lock other people down in some way right absolutely hold them in some way and you can't do it you're gonna like people are gonna invol evolve and you have to give them the space to do it right or they're not going to evolve and that's cool too I guess that's their own choice yeah you know yeah you know I mean yeah yeah or evolve whatever that means to them I guess as yeah yeah yeah yeah they'll do it in their they'll do it in their own way and whatever that looks like but but it ain't this it's not but you cannot not you can't do this I don't think you can't do this and be in that place of like limited kind of evolution like the way in which that these kind of like tantric practices this this a aspect of vadana in a physical form is still the same aspect or still the same practice as vadana in the metaphysical form you are changing your nervous system you are becoming something more than just the the the sum of your own parts and I would keep using that thing but like it's true and this is changing the way that you see reality the way that you feel reality the way that you interact with all the things including your including you and so I I don't know I mean of course anything is possible but I just don't feel deeply deep down that like you can do these kind of practices with with just anybody a and then when you start or even if you have a desire the actual desire to do them that you're not going to that you're already not further down the road you know what I'm saying the fact that you're thinking about them means that you're like okay what do I need to be doing like we're talking about something very very Niche even within the practice of you know tantric Buddhism you know in the way that it's practiced normally which is as an individual practice um and Dr Anita makes that point in in his book that like one of the reasons why he wrote this book was to kind of like highlight the toxic aspects of sexuality that have been portrayed in in so many different um areas you know was to illuminate this aspect of practice so um yeah you're just I don't know man it it's this is a very small number of people people who are doing this particular thing but given that we are gin and Tantra it's good that we're discussing it because even if you're not doing this kind of thing people are are in relationships all the time and so this is a different way a non-conventional way that you can look at relationships in terms of the bonding aspect and selecting a partner and building your you know building your your connection in this way well I feel like in a in a way I would like this to be like not as Niche I think part of the reason why doctors need is writing the book too sure you know what I mean and so if I have like a little goal in my life would be to take some of these you know more deeper spiritual ideas that probably have like historically had a niche I mean Zen's Niche too in a way right you know these are like kind of more alternative spiritualities right yeah but like you know I mean at least part of what I would feel I would like to do in my life to the extent that I can would be to take these things out of the niche and bring them more like hey let's all have access to this right and start using these tools for all of our Lives you know I think that's why again I'm more probably like my my home base is probably more uniqueness oriented person than the estrop parel sense but I also think this is applicable to everybody you know you take a tantric set of ideas and apply them to like different parts of your life no matter who you are and how you're trying to frame your life in that in you know different ways you know how you how you envision what your goals are and what you want to do with yourself but these things are kind of universal in the sense that you know we're all going to have to deal with these things to like push ourselves psychos spiritually forward you know right had a kind of a Trippy thing and I said it maybe a couple of episodes but it comes up again under this Freedom thing because Carl Rogers was saying something like one of our favorite psychologists right that we bring up periodically on the show and he was saying well what's the condition to make people grow and develop a certain kind of Freedom right you need a freedom right to grow and develop right and you know if we're going to interact with other people and make if we're going to use relationship as a spiritual tool in the biggest sense of the word sexuality but also I think because we're talking about four different ways you can do this and some of them are yeah you know not necessarily just like you know sex itself but other ways in which people connect to kind of drive to use those energies of connection with people to alchemically push themselves forward right um You need to have that freedom aspect and maybe that's something to look at no matter what your relationship style is am I giving people freedom to grow and develop right because it's under those conditions of freedom and then he says too like the immoral act is the one that holds people back from pushing themselves forward that's immoral yeah that's a different morality you know know American morals yeah you know we say like something came out of a burning bush and these are the rules of how things are supposed to be but when you get into this kind of stuff it's more like the thing that you really want to do is see everybody grow and develop and progress and when you're people are getting held back that's where something is really going wrong right so anyways I think it's aound set of ideas this is this is uh standard for the this patriarchal culture yeah definitely to to hold the women back that's that's one that's in that's inside of your home outside of your home the the goal is for as as religion as I see it in the ways that it's practiced and shared most time is to do the same thing is to feed you what it is that they want you to know about the external practices of their particular religion right never giving you the key to the inside never even telling you a door exists that you could walk through just to control the way that you uh your own sense of Freedom they they'll give you the the keys for you to limit yourself you know they'll give you the the Ikea cage for you to build you know what I'm saying your own mind and your own life so that you don't develop because there is a fear and a and a rightful one that if people have a deep sense of Freedom that they're not going to want the same things anymore yes you and I are 100% sympatico on this they're not gonna want the same things anymore and once that happens you cannot control that person now that person is not controllable you can try and try and try and you know look at the tools that catholism uses that Judaism uses guilt you know yeah and then and many of the other ones it's fear you know I mean and all the all the religions do it Islam does it I mean you know they you know Christianity does it all of I'm not picking on anybody they just certain ones use different different emotional um triggers if you will to move people back off of the path that's going to take them somewhere different somewhere where they're going to go I don't I don't want what that I don't want all of that I don't this is this doesn't feed my soul you know and once you have the taste of that nectar that there's something else that can give you satisfaction that is not required for you to show up at a certain place at a certain time and do a certain thing over and over and over again and check all these boxes just so you could be viewed as normal you know then you go oh I don't want I like I said before and this is many many episodes ago years ago I want to be so far outside of the box I don't even recognize that's a [...] box anymore yeah yeah yeah and then that's like use the word nectar I mean that's the gin and Tantra image here's the nectar here it is I think as we get to the end of the episode you know got some time limitations but I think that's why Gnostic Jesus was so important to me I remember talking with you know like a TCM friend of mine someone I went to grad school with Chinese medical friend of mine and just going I've discovered like Gnostic Jesus you know he was like outside the box Jesus yeah he's got beautiful long dreadlocks and smokes weed I don't remember that in the Gospel of Thomas but I'm totally into that too right you know Jesus can become who you need him to be yeah he's flexible that way but it was like one of these things where I was like so I suppose in that sense you know if you're Catholic or something I was raised Catholic but you can still find that part of the tradition it might not be the one that you're hearing about all the time yeah you know but you can still find the if you know if that figure speaks to you if you're like I was Catholic I was raised this way I love this Jesus figure but you know you find a different one that is more the inner one right the one that's you know expressing those inner truths not just you know again the more outer aspects of things that you were talking about yep well I mean it seems like a good way to end it right on a high note yeah yeah that's it if if uh if you got somebody you know some that that is presenting an obstacle to your to your deep sense of freedom I mean it has to be looked at you know in the last couple episodes you know with the nine things that'll [...] up your life life it was the family of origin right it was a family of origin it was it was responsibilities it was you know physical health time to practice all these kind of work desires to be famous and you know whatever else that was kind of keeping you held back um but in this case it's the it's the variety of relationships that I think if we're not careful we can build our own prisons I mean that's obstacle number three in this thing I think about those things and we're trying to write this book about this too so we're both chipping away at it now yeah yeah you know typing starting to do our stuff it might be a little bit tortois like but we're doing it right yeah and uh yeah yeah yeah it's like how that cluster of things can kind of get together yeah yeah all right so all right so to be continued I guess right we just got a couple more of Dr Nita's things to do but it seems like that's a good place to stop before we open up some other can of worms to kind of go through but I hear what you're saying and I think uh you hear what I'm saying and we are sympatico on this point there has to be something again you know har we want to live your life but you have to find these core things right and and when when you find somebody who is supportive of them that is uh you know that's that's profound it is it is so treat it like gold yep I couldn't agree more that's true that's true Eric is always thinking so much you know for being on the on the battleship here with me um and audience thank you for tuning in if you made it to the end of the video congratulations you are in the top five% of uh attention holders in the in the world forget the United States because to us we think that the the world is the United States little do we know that things happen outside of our borders that are not only War there are other people practicing and living in completely different cultures and whether you're here or somewhere else if you would like to hit us up Jin and Tantra gmail.com or leave a comment in the YouTube section make sure to like And subscribe it helps us out helps us out in the algorithm for sure if you're on the old Instagram you know uh Jin and Tantra podcast you know we appreciate all the love even if you don't show it uh but you're listening you know we uh you know what's happening do your thing we're here to help you as we're here to help ourselves for Eric this is Daniel we'll catch you guys in the next one peace