[Music] hey fellow G and tears those who are like those of us who like our spirituality with the twist um we have a number of things upcoming on the docket of stuff that we want to do we're hyped to like uh do a number of new projects but the main one we want to start doing now is sort of a GN Karma mudra thing which has been I you I was thinking about a little bit Daniel it's been a bit in the in the offing you know it's been a long time coming so to speak uh to do this right but uh it's finally we're going to start talking about Karma mudra which is basically working with sexuality and spirituality and I kind of like you know as I was I was doing the prep for the notes on this one I was thinking you know it fits into things we've talked about with love and relationship before that's part of karma mudra too so we'll probably have some references to those things or we've done episodes around this um sometimes this is is the yoga of bliss or The Yoga of Desire so learning how to use Bliss as a spiritual tool learning how to use desire as a spiritual tool Good Times um to get to the word itself Karma means action and mudra means seal so this is like action seal it's not like the James Bond of seals it's not that kind of seal that you'd find like on the the ocean on the you on the beach or something it's seal like the Seal of uh of an empress or something right like the Imperial seal yeah and the notion of when you get to a seal in this like usage in the the tantric world or the Buddhist world or something like it seals your mind it like imprints your mind with bliss is the idea yeah the way that yeah mudra in in the way that I learned it is the same um but the way that they described it is that like it's signifying something that has um inten behind it or has something something of high regard behind it so like if you were to get a something sealed by like an emperor or a king and it was to be delivered to you you would know that the the here here the contents of what is about to be shared is authentic right it's authentic from that the person who is getting it from you and so in this way you are getting it from you but then it's also like yeah it's a stamp of significance you know yeah you're right I mean I totally agree it shows that there's something importance to it right if the if the emperor the empress puts a seal on it it's saying okay this is real and it's also important and you better [...] read it and you there it is right yeah yeah I like this kind of use of this word like in you know Asian culture I think that's kind of an interesting turn of phrase right to have a seal on something right yeah all right cool so that's what we're gonna be talking about right um and uh for the presentation that we're going to try to do you know and we'll do our little series as we like to do but uh we're going to be working a little bit from the presentation that comes from Dr Nida he has this book called I got it right here I should hold that yeah what's the name of the book Eric I want to make sure we it is uh Karma mudra The Yoga of bliss okay so we're GNA try to be a little bit I used use the word authentic that that speaks to me right we'll try to be a little authentic in this and you know one of the things you can do in the tantric Buddhist world or the Buddhist world or the Asian cultural world is you can kind of do a commentary so we're gonna kind of go through and like look at what he has to say and then kind of throw our own Impressions into and it you know it just gives it an authenticity gives it a kind of a a structure to what we're up to right yeah yeah so and I I you know I'm I'm kind of like doing the prep on this stuff I'm doing the I'm more the person doing a little bit of this you know Daniel and are working together but I'm kind of reading through the book and kind of doing some of the Prep Prep notes on it and I really like pieces of it that I thought you know we'd kick around first of all he's coming at from a medical perspective and he's drawing on a like a tantric Buddhist lineage that's very medical and I think that speaks to you know certainly what we kind of love that integration of healing with spirituality the medicine and the spirituality together but it also gives it kind of a good flavor of like kind of a practicality too you know right and the idea that in Buddhist stuff you can kind of frame things medically I like that framing in Buddhism too they kind of Define things like here's your problem and here's the solutions and there's a prag ISM to it we were joking about astrology earlier and this is your Capricorn and my past life Virgo we want to make things real and practical so that speaks to me you know um now he traces it back I'm just putting I'll put the context out you know uh he traces it back to this figure named yuk ning I don't know who this is you know so it's not like a super famous person from my experience with this you know there's some really famous names in the Buddhist tantric world naropa toopa saraha you know there's like these really gapa there's names that maybe everybody would know this doesn't seem like you know a figure like that that I was familiar with otherwise but I really love the sense that he's a doctor and he's a tantrica and he's trying to do this together and I think that's pretty awesome so you know that's kind of the context for where he's coming from it's kind of cool Back stories these things have Back stories he has this thing he calls the heart essence of yuthok which came from a vision from a Buddhist goddess or de so he was having Visionary experiences right and he was trying to transmit those forward right um which is kind of cool and unlike being maybe a monastic person because they have so many monastics in the Tibetan world right uh he's not he's a lay person right what they sometimes call like I guess a Naka um but you know he's like a lay practitioner and a doctor and that I like all that stuff I think it's very cool so what I think D is trying to do is present this in a way that again has a medical vibe to it has a pragmatic vibe to it and to try to integrate the medical and the tantric and I think that that speaks to our g&t very well and Dr he's a Tibetan medicine practitioner yeah yeah that's his you know this is his way of seeing things naturally yeah and I guess he draws from this lineage from this particular you know Visionary tantrica you know doctor person uh I didn't know much about as much about his background but you know I I think that's really interesting right you know to have that combination there um anything else you want to say as a preliminary to this kind of stuff are you good Daniel no we're good okay so then maybe we'll kick around the idea of like why to do this yeah okay so I mean I kind of went through and just jotted down some of my thoughts with this and I know you'll have your own too and we'll throw it out to people probably they'll have their own as well obviously yeah but um what occurred to me a little bit is like working with the emotions to transform them and he gets to that it Parts in like his present ation too you know you don't want to repress these feelings uh and I guess we'll have more of that as we go along because he has more to say about it and I'm sure we'll touch on other parts of this as we try to push this forward but like just to lead with that a little bit you know these emotions are so powerful that um to repress them is like not entirely psychologically or medically healthy right so I think it's better to kind of embrace them in a way right and try to use them and work with them rather than go to the to the place of like trying toow repress things right because desires are so core um you got a thought on that before I kind of continue with my little Vibe on this so you got stuff you want to say about that no no go ahead so I mean to me what struck me from a personal level is when I first started doing my zen stuff and we had conversations about this in past episod a little bit but I was struck by the Zen or Dost idea which overlaps nicely with what we're doing here too kind of comes together as one big coherent thing is uh you know that you want to like work with sometimes in Chinese medine we use this phrase like lower Jou for talking about the energies of the pelvis or I imagine I was imagining you would want to talk about the lower chakras so you'll do your thing on that right yeah yeah but you know just the idea that you start from there because it sort of forms the foundation of who you are as a person right these energies are so core to who you are the ones of the lower gel the things that are sexual and the things that are you know deep in that part of the system and uh you know it's better to start there and learn how to like work with those and use them and you kind of build from that Foundation up and so you know that I thought was really important to me in my life right yeah and give some other takes on it as we go but like that seemed very important to me yeah and that's generally where I mean this people's Sexual Energy is such a it is the most powerful one you know Sexual Energy love and those two things are they're dancing with each other you know all the time I mean if you think you know I mean how many songs are written about love and this is where and you know it it shapes you it changes you it it it's your identity you know people who you know there's pride month now because people who are unable to freely Express their love of you know whoever right the same sex or or whatever you know your gender identity or whatever you're into but you're able to do that more now whereas you know for a long time that was like death for sure I mean you know people are still not accepting of that now but I'm I'm using that as an example because it's such a large expression of how you view the world world right who you love is how you view the world in many in many ways you know what I'm saying and so in your ability to connect with other people you know it's like using the most kind of human of human energies to transform and it and it is the largest transformational alchemical you know uh Elixir field of the body is the the kind of the lower chakras you know which is based around Health longevity and IM mortality like we talked about in in the previous series and if you have a a well functioning kind of lower JW area we can call it or lower lower body you know your your elimination is is is normal is regular being physiological right and your sex drive is is adequate for your for your own level of Desire I mean you're probably you're you're you're in a really good spot you know just if those two things are in order you know and so to take those kind of two very um energies that have high potential and to to turn them inwards and get them moving consciously as you sort of you know work work your way up the ladder if you will um it's it's a it's a requirement you cannot not you cannot I don't know that you can anything's possible but in all the systems that I've studied that's where you start yeah I like the like the fact that you kind of brought in the the love aspect of it too because we've done obviously episodes on those kinds of things too as a transformative factor and it kind of like links up different parts of the person so you might think love has a lot to do with the heart and sort of more like the chest right those emotions right but those are entwined with the in a healthy way hopefully in entwined with the energies that are more the sexual energies that are more associated with the pelvis and that axis is really powerful right so um for us as like TCM people sometimes we like to talk about how the heart and the kidney connect the kidney kind of the major you know uh internal organ that like is kind of in the pelvis you know related to the pelvis affects the lower Jou right affects this kind of lower lower low lower part of the body this you know sexual part of the body and this constitutional part of the body and that's one side and it also connects to the heart and there's this feedback loop so you know like like it's good that you're I I love that you're doing that and I also feel like and that's the attitude we're going to try to take through this whole thing right you know you could in theory do a Karma mudra thing and just talk about sex the whole time which we're gonna do that not the whole time we're also going to talk about you know this other part right the relational aspect and how transformative the whole thing is because that's kind of part of the Alchemy too so I'm I'm glad you brought it up and it connects with other conversations we had about these things I think the only the last part that is just popping back up in my head is that like one of the other things that I learned really use I use all the time is that like creativity comes is is the beginnings of creativity come from the second chakra right like kind of like the sexual chakra if you will um and the way in which that they have what do you call evidence for this is caveman drawings and that like instead of living outside nomadically as soon as they have some semblance of protection from the elements and some regular regularity and their partner you know we don't know how they lived I mean you know think caveman you think man beat woman overhead with rock she you know she stays they have baby she leaves eventually when the kid can run fast enough to get away from the man but you know it doesn't seem like the way it is but that's for another time okay fine fine fine you know but like what do you what do you find in there that's where you find the beginnings of drawings you know and they will say that this is it because now that you're not so focused on just pure shelter and and staying alive and you know keeping yourself safe from the elements that you have you can move up to the next rung and the next rung obviously is is create sexuality but it's also the very seeds of creativity and so creativity sexuality playfulness all of which are are bound are bound together and when you you know at least for me when I think of like good teachers you know like llama Glenn being one of them they have a high amount of of playfulness and a high amount of creativity they often are either creative with their language they do they might write or do artwork or you you know some some aspect of this and you know speaking of TCM like the heart and the kidney communicate when when this occurs oftentimes people's creativity you know is uh is regained at those points you know so it's uh just such a it's such a deep thing to use all of those aspects of our self to to transform who we are I I just I wanted just touch on a number of different things for those people who might you know be more drawn towards one one facet or another you know I I I love it in the sense that I was doing my meditation earlier and I thought Daniel's gonna talk about the sacran chakra I know he's gonna do this because we know each other so well right I'm like Daniel's gonna do his thing so I was thinking okay how do I feel about this you know what can I ask you about or you know continue on the conversation um on the anthropological stuff we have kind of a standing invitation from uh uh Ryan Davenport one of our two anthropologists on retainer or on call or however you want to say it to talk about sex at dawn so maybe we'll do sex at dawn at some point over the course of the year right but uh and we'll talk about all that kind of stuff but um I was I had couple of reactions to us on the creativity thing I'm trying to like I'm kind of rejuvenating myself after my retreat over the break and I was thinking about how you know in the Zen things I studied they had this idea that you should do your Zen meditation there's a great School in that you should do your Zen meditation you should do some martial arts for powerol yeah but then also you should do something creative so I've been kind of like trying to do I do music you know was probably my main creative Outlet right and some writing right but I was it's so interesting that they made a point of doing the creativity yeah because that gets to that sort of lower Jou second chakra thing and in that school they were trying to do a lot to build up that Foundation we've been t talking about that lower Jou in chines medicine they almost say the whole constitution on a certain level is like reflected in the pelvis is reflected in this part of the body you know yeah where the sexual energies are it's kind of is the basis of your constitution on some level and I was thinking you know uh I'm I I'm I want to feel more creative I'm going through and I'm trying to do creative things and it like Taps into that second chakra energy kind of thing but I had one more thought because I knew you were going to talk about it which is awesome I love this conversation um when you think about because I I don't use quite the same chakra system so this is a little bit more like a yogic hot and jolly thing I'm a little bit more into the yeah the Tibet you're like a five five a five guy yeah I guess that's right so they got a bunch of shakras in that thing too but um so when you think of where that's at if you try to match it to around where it is in the physical body I know it's always a little bit hard to make chakras match perfectly where do you see that do you see that in the perineum do you see that the tailbone where do you see it it's it's below the it's below the belly button you know it's below the belly button above the the three finger lengths down is that what you're getting to that like okay yeah so we have an acupuncture Point called Guan Yan right yes right the you know the original Gat or whereever you want to talk about that yeah okay so that's where you're seeing it yeah and the first Shakra is par you know definitely like paranam or just just above oh okay we'll get into this stuff later on I was just curious you know I had kind of like an interesting thing on the retreat too because I was thinking about creativity I may this is stff but we'll figure out how this matches up but you know in these energies that they think of in the lower Dr too they also kind of talk about the you know what are the deepest things that you matter to you so much most in life right they have that association with this pelvis area too right as we go forward we can talk about it more but they associate it with like the goddess Tara potentially or with the the Buddhist uh kind of Enlightenment figure aoga City you know the energy of accompl Ling things the enlightened quality of accomplishing things you know is the is the power of this you can accomplish activities in the world right which is kind of interesting in a creative sense too right you accomplish stuff and so I was thinking about that and I was meditating on it during my retreat and it really clicked in me you know that the deepest things I want to do in the world is like learn these spiritual things and share them with people I love and care about like that's the deepest thing for me there's nothing else deeper than that for me right right but it was interesting then because I was trying to visualize like the amoga city energies and the Mandela and the minute that clarified for me it just popped you know and I was like okay this is very clear you know and I was just wondering how you see maybe that created to like connected to the creative energies you know these clarifying of what you really want at the core coupled with the creativity does that speak to you as like an interconnected thing Danielle because it yeah how you would think about that I guess what I could say that like you know you're using the energy of the the kind of you know first and second Shakra sometimes like when you're doing a a practice where you're where you're meditating on the second chakra or the first if we're going to stay we're starting from the bottom but those two are very they're they're close in Pro in proximity and they're close in colors you know what I'm saying so like you often times instead of doing like one red and one orange you'll just see like a burnt orange kind of color right so you're working with that and it's it's a fire element that you're working with you know down there and if you think about it in terms of like an actual fire well what does fire put off well heat and light and in for me in my understanding I had a definitely a deep realization about this some years ago that's the light that begins to light the cavern of the body you know that's the light that connects with the heart that lights the eyes you know what I'm saying those two fires are are you know like what are they I'm remembering I think must have been Lord of the Rings the third one where they were trying to get them to light the uh this I don't know the fire of of wherever you know to try so they can communicate between the different kingdoms to let them know that they're in trouble you know what I'm saying but I feel like that's like the original like not the original but the the fire of the South you know or or deeper fire that then ignites the rest of the one on the way up you know that lights the it lights the mind it lights the inside of the body you know um and that's where that's where the creativity kind of comes from in in that way it's like an you know enlightening quote unquote air quotes for those who are just uh you know who are listening and not and not seeing yeah it kind of fits into the idea like we'll see what we try to do in terms of the practicalities when we get to like the meditations themselves you know because we're going to talk through it and then we'll do practical stuff hopefully this stuff is practical along the way though too but you know um it's that fire element right that you can go through like a Kundalini or something like that it builds and creates this fire and drive it's funny you're talking about Lord of the Rings because I got my little Harry Potter thing I always think of those two things together I'm bit more of a Harry Potter person so I have yeah don't let the Muggles get you down cup with the Luna little luna on there the little luna archetype uh I can't I can always remember everything from the Harry Potter movies but I can never remember [...] from the load of the Rings that's made me think of it yeah I never I I I can never remember it I might have seen one Harry Potter movie but you don't give a [...] about Harry Potter no no Harry no Harry po I can't remember anything from Lord of the Rings yeah I love Lord the Rings just a bunch of like bearded men running around you some dwarfs or whatever there we go some Elves they're trying to do something I there's a ring sounds like sounds like a normal Friday night you know in green green Green shaky guy yeah um I think the last thing Eric did that I that I want to say about this is that like from a societal perspective they have the uh the allegory of the cave okay I was going to remember one of your visions do you want me to share it or do you want to do your allegory of the cave let me share your vision this happened years ago more like the Early times we knew each other yeah and you said hey I had this Visionary thing and I was like cool Le adami this is part of our relationship we talk back and forth about these things yeah yeah yeah and I think we knew each other but we've gotten to know each other more and more over the years obviously of course but you were talking to me about this and it was like you felt like there was a fire that was going to burn it was a bunch of people maybe in a cave they were in a cave there was a fire and it was burning and you could feel the flame going out sort of almost from like your being out to the other beings or something and I was like that's a very Buddhist tantric uh Vision yeah so I I remember yeah so I I had did that did you remember this thing yeah I remember this thing okay I was thinking about I had this meditation or a dream I don't remember but it was a a very V Vivid thing that I was chained up in a cave with my hands next you know my hands up on my sides and like you know very kind of old school handcuffs and but my body was clear and there was all these other people chained up on both sides of the of the super long kind of corridor you know dirt floor Cobblestone you know Archway and things like this I was clear the body was clear everybody else's body was clear it was very dark and I looked down and right just above my pelvic area was a small flame and I started to kind of like you know blow on the flame just ever so ever so was it the amsr part of the episode or something like that yeah I'm not gonna do it I don't want to get people uh you know riled up you know what I'm saying yeah yeah got it and so as I did it my body became became far more luminous and stronger so I broke out from my chain and then I was I not only was I illuminated but I was I I Not only was I personally illuminated and I realized I was in this dream or in this Vision I forget how it was I immediately looked to my left and to my right and there was maybe two or three other beings who had also gotten free and we all turned around and started to try and ignite other people's fires who was who were chained up and for the rest of my vision which probably or dream which probably lasted realistically like 60 seconds at the more that I ignited the people's fire like it was spreading from the the light was spreading from body to body because everybody else was translucent just as I was you know and it was just and I and I remember we were walking to uh to get some uh a sandwich or something like this on one of the breaks from class probably yeah yeah you know and and telling you about it yeah just the same [...] eating that you have on your face now is the one you had then no I love it because I love these conversations between us it was always I'm looking I'm remembering back fondly and our knowing one another we've had so many great conversations where we go through that was probably like know and uh that love it yeah that might have been like 11 years ago maybe 12 yeah I'm not smiling at the vision I'm smiling at the memory yeah yeah so you know it's like the kind of things where you know you're bonding with another person right totally yeah and you would share these things and like I always felt like my thing was to go okay let me run it through my inner little you know uh stages of the pth path the Buddhist Tantra inner kind of schema and say you know what is this you know and I always love those things you know I was like okay there's the fire that's the Tumo and then the clearness of the figure is and maybe we'll talk about this later but they have this idea they call the illus body yeah and uh you can meditate on that you can meditate yourself on a clear kind of hollow figure almost right so maybe we'll talk about those meditations to a little bit um I guess we should a little bit mention that uh we're we're in initial plans of maybe doing a retreat on these kinds of things ultimately so more to being discussed but you know we're in the early Arrangement so we really love to share these things with people maybe in some kind of retreat format too so yeah so we're plotting that out as well but uh you know there was all these different parts of it and then like kind of like the amazing part of like inter connectivity you know partially it's the local thing but also it reaches out and it starts to spread right the enlightenment qualities so it's very cool yeah it was okay yeah were you gonna talk about that when we were talking about the cave or I was gonna talk about the actual allegory of the cave but this is fine same [...] though right yeah pretty much pretty much um though this is actually your vision's cooler yeah play those all right but you know of course it's five thousands of years You Gotta Give Them his props but yeah got okay it's been around for a while you know it does prove that you and I listen to one another because I remember this vision from years ago I was thinking about it yeah yes so we actually do listen to one another real friendship okay um okay so cool I mean I think the other like let's we go get to the other parts of this why they do this right got a little time left so yeah um that kind of is like working with the emotions and trying to transform them maybe we'll go back to Dr NE a little bit more when we get to it because he has more to say about it but you don't want to repress we've done stuff on that too repression tough you know and again we've done enough psychological episodes around that right we did an episode recently about the defense mechanisms right that a lot of people kind of dug and um you know in doing the defense mechanisms you repress you're going to get defense mechanisms it's going to go all kind of crazy so you know it's worthwhile really thinking about how to transform these things as opposed to trying to like smos them right you try to smos too much uh so it's good to do all this kind of stuff and again like in my own personal experience I found this to be very valuable right and I'll get to the other part which is health reasons too which you already kind of alluded to I put that in my notes as well right yeah because you're working with the Constitutional energies kind of at the core and I think Dr Nita has a bunch of stuff on that too if you can make the sexual energies healthy it has a beneficial effect on the whole Constitution which you were talking about right um but I also had like I thought the psychological health of this too was kind of cool to throw this in there as well right um it transforms the mind yes in the sense that again you can get a patterns of things like repression you can face your desires in a more direct way but the Bliss thing is really good too right because to be able to generate Bliss within yourself is one of the antidotes to a lot of these negative emotions right yeah you know it's how you get over least it just goes to my experience and then um I'll share with you you'll share back and then maybe other people have their own experiences with this too but you know for me finding this ability to kind of generate this Bliss Within Myself right which you know we're going to talk about paired practices karmamudra you know doesn't like you know include having a partner but there's like solo elements of this too in the sense that you can learn how to meditate on your own sexual energies and generate those feelings of bliss in yourself you know even in your meditations as well as with a partner right and the the ability like to generate those feelings of bliss are very Curative I think psychologically too you know yeah the other part Eric is why why it's why it's important to why we're making such a big thing about this and this is probably where we'll just you know our topic will remain you know for the for the rest of our time to be honest is that like you can the question to why do it is also about how to do it right those two things are are linked together and why do it is that it's it's it's Curative right it's it's an antidote and there's different antidotes to different things you know generosity you know just basic like if you're too stingy give things away that'll help you you know if you feel if you're too attached to this idea or that idea you know generate feelings of compassion for other people that say that is like a good thing to do um but just being disciplined alone is probably not going to be enough to keep you returning to your meditation cushion or returning you to your practice whatever your prac practice might be and if the goal really is to transform your life then you want to be either thinking about practice talking about practice or or changing the way that you see things we've talked about these like conventional truths and ultimate truths or seeing beyond the mundane so you're not just you're not just seeing the world as like you know a bunch of ones and zeros but the the people that are existing in it are illuminated beings you know what I'm saying you know what I'm saying but hopefully the audience understands that like you're you're actively trying to change the way in which you perceive the world right because there is far more than what we are seeing there's far more than what our senses allow us to interpret right just it's almost like my crazy channeling episode last time with Faris vati where I was like uh somewhat unhinged but also feeling inspired you know like overcoming these mundane conceptions and appearances and replacing them with the extraordinary right yes yes and with the you know the Divine or something right yeah totally in yeah and so like you cannot simply rely on discipline alone to keep you coming back and keep you on the pract keep you on the path keep you practicing even if you love it and find it intellectually stimulating or even if this is what you grew up with and this is what you're forced to do and you know other way that's not enough because deep down we I believe have to enjoy things we have to like them now you can like things for different reasons but for most people what do most people like most people like sex most people like it and if they don't like sex itself they generally like feeling kind of Saucy people we love to Fe you know we people I think generally feel like to feel health healthy wise like to feel attractive to whom or to what whatever that doesn't matter but you want to feel attractive or you want to feel attracted there's a lot of energy that goes on and so these practices are sexual in nature because it will get you to return to practice again because it feels good so instead of having somebody say you got to eat your you know brussel sprouts because they're good for you and that's good that's got to be good enough for you to continue to do it so instead of having that voice voice in your mind telling you that you should do it because it's good for you you are returning because you enjoy it because there's Bliss associated with it because it's a positive experience for you and a point that you make Eric with me personally is that like life is coming anyways so why wouldn't you have a practice where you can enjoy things you can do them with pleasure and I think it changes the way that you experience the world actually that you are far more prone to look for Joy you're far more prone to look for pleasure I don't necessarily only looking at things at as a sexual pleasure but you know Finding joy and pleasure in everything because it changes and enhances your experience and therefore you are far more likely to continue this practice and making yourself look for more joy and more pleasure and in that way you're igniting your own fire and when you people see that around you they are intoxicated with it and they want to know and then in this way maybe you can light their fire and then you can start to light to fire around the community and then you can make my vision a reality yeah Light My Fire that's right I think um okay there's like I'll say my few things back because it's great I was gonna say preach brother Daniel you gota you can do it sometimes you know channeling my carel West you know brother Daniel preach yeah um so yeah I like as the immediate experience of that to share I think when I was doing Zen in the very beginning it's can be pretty austere and demanding you know now you were also doing these kind of like inner fire practices these calini breathing things yeah and it was in the context of a lot of discipline though you know and I think at the time I was in my early 20s and that was good for me it wasn't bad I was also raised Catholic so there's a little bit like okay I'll just suffer through [...] right right that's kind of what I learned you know from you know one part of my family lineage which was the my Catholic Grandma right uh my dad was a very Protestant work ethic kind of guy on some level you know probably Irish Catholic but a little bit more Protestant work ethic so he was like grinding through things and then a weird thing happened when so I was doing zand and I was learning there's no doubt but a weird thing happened to me where I like I got exposed to some of the Dost sexual yogas and I started doing them kind of like on my own you know is part of my zen thing because it was a Dos school but they weren't necessarily teaching that all the time but I was like I want to learn these things who's that Eric who sings that uh on my own that Patty Patty leel I think P I was definitely like I probably had a little inner trickster so I probably like we've talked about it before I don't think hosak car rosi the Zen master was like telling me to do that I was like I'm GNA do this because I'm just interested but the Epiphany for me was some of the things you're saying I can remember being on Zen Retreats being like you can't just sit here and [...] suffer all the time right you can't keep doing it you know if you've been on any of that so you do have more moments of bliss and Euphoria in those Mindful and Retreats and G Retreats they're not all like that but yeah I did have the exact thought you had I was like no like you have to have Bliss in things yeah and if the whole purpose of spirituality on some level is to overcome this dooka problem this suffering whatever you want to call it suffering or unpleasantness or you know unhappiness you know we've talked about that in a couple of episodes Mal Mal contentedness yeah you can't go around being unhappy you know and uh and so I was like you know this is fasing because there's a way you can you can do this with a partner but you know I was also learning the solo practices and I was like you can just generate this Bliss within your own sense of your own self and then you know just to share a little bit on because we talked about it in weird experiences episode a long time ago but I can remember like being being on the Zen Retreat and we were all sitting around to do our calligraphy exercise oakar roshi grent master was there and you could see the talent of those people because I just started like okay I'm sitting on this hardwood floor what they call CA where you sort of sit with your legs underneath you you know and you're kind of sitting on your ankles and your your knees are you know the Japanese style of sitting and I'm like this [...] hurts and I was like I want to generate some Bliss like right now and so I kind of did these sexual meditations you know like the solo using your sexual energies for Bliss that you can learn how to do and I felt these waves of bliss through me and then hosaka looked hakar roshi turned looked to me and said what the [...] is this guy doing he could feel it and I went oh this shit's real which is the other part of it it's real and you know other people can feel it you know of course he's a highly sensitive zen master but you can kind of your energy will spread and affect other people totally your bliss will be contagious to other people yes in the way you act and the way you behave but also just in your vibration in the world your being in the world it'll be that way way the energy will go out so yeah I uh it's great you know I think it's it's was psychologically transformative to me because I had a pretty hard upbringing I had issues with maybe anxiety or depression things probably at some point in my life getting my ass kicked when I was younger and to be able to find that Bliss was very psychologically transformative and it made me realize like okay you have to find this to psychologically transform it's the best way to transform is like through the Bliss and then it also was other things you were saying you can't just go through and grind away at things it's just not possible you have to do things from a place of joy and Bliss I think even as a doctor I can remember I was working with the HIV patients I had this Clinic where um I was part of a clinic where we were doing all HIV and AIDS patients and we were working public health and I remember thinking there has to be joy in this work I you can't just go find it your work and so this being able to find this place of bliss is really powerful because you can kind of like create it in yourself and like and uh and carry it into your activities all over the place you know and find it when you need it you know okay very cool um all right we got a couple other things here and the why to do it so maybe this I think this will be our subject matter of the day you know yeah totally like you were saying uh so um Bliss is connected to the ultimate or the deepest part of reality I think this is a big part of like Buddhist Tantra for sure right and it spoke to me here it spoke to me in the Zen thing it spoke to me for cabalistic things and sufy things as well all the things that we know and love where like what's the ground of being what's the ultimate nature of things it's Bliss right uh you know our beloved robbert Thurman Bobby T for us right talks about this idea you know it's Bliss right wisdom is bliss so there's a kind of way in which you can say from a tantric point of view and then from these other Traditions that we like as well you can say you part of the experience of the foundational reality is like Bliss there's a i you can obviously make the most obvious thing that like any anyone having sex even even if you're an atheist says oh God at some point or another right because you feel that Bliss and you know in that moment you're not converting you know but what you're feeling is like something of what is the ultimate in that moment right you know um so you know whether you want to call that God if you're cish you want to call it the light of the Endless or the or the AOL Without End or if you're a Dost and you want to feel what's the da at least in this way of thinking and a tantric way of thinking the part of the experience of that is bliss it's one of the components of the experience right so sometimes I'll call it like uh in the in the Dal Lama School of Buddhism you know they'll talk about this clear light Bliss and emptiness feeling right this feeling that Ultimate Reality is kind of formless That's The Emptiness part it's also like light and energy like what you were talking about right and that energy and that formlessness is infused with bliss that's the experience of the the ground being right or whatever you want to call it and so you know part of the reason for doing this kind of stuff is the more you can generate those kinds of feelings you're approximating this experience of the ground of being or the ground of reality or whatever word or phrase you like you're getting down to the core of what things really are which is you know these qualities you know that we were talking about right and Bliss is the part of this right it's this feeling of blissfulness right right and it's very cool in the again it was one of the subject Matters from my retreat you know that just finished up recently where I was like restudying some of the tantric practices that kind of go through this they talk about this and I was meditating on them and so on and uh you get to this idea that you're you're approximating and approaching this you know the more you can generate these kinds of blissful feelings and work within yourself and your energies within yourself again solo with a partner or whatever works for you in terms of your life the more you can do it the closer you're getting to this place and they talk about in a very smart way they'll say this is an example of this they use this phrase example clear light but they mean an example feeling of those things light and Bliss and formlessness or something right and you get an example of it and then you get another example of it and maybe it gets closer and closer so you're sort of approximating in on this experience that gets a chance to build over time for you you'll get clearer and clearer on it as you work through it repeatedly over your experience and doing practices and eventually you'll get you know the example and then you get the ultimate example and then you get closer to the real experience of it but they use it they talk about in this I think is a very like clever way they're saying okay you may not get you know you you're you're you're getting closer to it you're you're approximating it the more you get you get closer and closer to the experience of this so anyways and on a mundane level Eric the more that you feel good the better that you feel all the time also true you know I mean so yeah I mean it's how it is there's the ultimate tantric purposes you know the experience of like these really intense things God insol da the pure ground of being being the clear light Bliss emptiness right so you can do the high aspects of this right which is I think part of what we want to kind of get across right that's true right getting to the deep experiences but then you're right it also change your Vibe on a day-to-day basis and then you're like nicer to your kids or you know you're a better coworker at work or something because you're kind of in this space yeah so the high part and then you know the way it affects your life just in like moving through your life at a day-to-day basis right yeah I think when we get to the meditations of it part of it will also be you know looking at how you kind of work with your own internal energies to produce these things yeah so the other part is you know you learn how to work with the subtle parts of your own system the sub parts of your energies we'll drop this phrase later on it's called a vajra body it's kind of like the channel system and the chakras and all this kind of stuff right s energies that make up a person but as you work learn to feel those things and work with them you can kind of use those experiences and that comfort with that to generate more and more kind of bliss within yourself right and so it's almost like learning two sides of a thing it's pretty interesting you learn how to work with your own energies and you also learn how to work with bliss and you see how they kind of like connect together right it's like two sides of a coin right yeah you're almost like you're tuning yourself into the frequency like that thing is already in existence and you're sort of T tuning your own little antenna uh to try and stay connected with it more often than not I've always had kind of like the fascination with that I was again on my retreat I was working through um sort of this commentary like we're doing a commentary I was reading commentary you know by one of these really deep uh Buddhist tantric teachers L meam and I've always been really fascinated by that idea of like experiencing the the inherent Bliss that's already there right you're in a sea of bliss yeah I think that's what Robert Thurman was trying to do with his book and he going cheer the [...] up that's right you know okay maybe there's problems but you're within the Sea of bliss too yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah or you know like cabalistic you're within the light of the Endless all the time right if you can just like kind of see it so I think in this way you're trying that's the Deep part and then it also like you're less crabby during your day so it kind of like functions on multiple levels right um okay I had one other example of like why to do this which I think a little bit relates back even to your vision too um and I think you know we've never done anything on some of the cabala which is another subject sitting out in the offing that will eventually get to but and it's almost related to other subject matters that maybe we'll talk to when we're here like maybe we'll talk a little bit about sex magic maybe we'll do a little bit on that right or um um ritual magic can be connected to this in some ways but and some of the cabalistic teachings especially this is where it was most clear to me though I think Dallas ones and T ones get to this point too which is if the universe is kind of like interconnected right and ultimately we have these yinyang energies these energies of polarity right you know in da we use this yinyang phraseology we can use other language for this we might more cabalistic or more tantric but okay yinyang works we all know the words in that so you know um when you connect the yinyang energies in yourself or you connect your Yin and yangang energies with a partner that ripples out to the rest of the universe just intrinsically because of the way the universe is like interconnected and interwire right and that's a deep idea too you know so when you make yourself more interconnected when you connect your heart and kidney when you connect your things together that's happening in you but because the universe is all interconnected it has an effect and the people immediately around you but sort of like the universe just has a whole right and then some of the really deep things that I think it'll take some cabalistic stuff to talk to talk through and maybe some of the daa stuff if we get to talking about these things ultimately you know they they kind of recognize that I try to say when you're when you're making these interconnections within yourself and I'll describe it a lot of times in kind of erotic imagery right you know like you're working with those energies that connect and create joy and Bliss within yourself you're almost triggering out to the more subtle yin-yang elements of the universe to like Channel good energy through that can be used in like magical ways I suppose right we talk a little bit about sexual magic things right which is more like I guess using the sexual energies in a more personal way toally if you can bring positive things into your life but even like psychos spiritually you know uh from a point of view of compassion and those sort of more goals of what you might call a bodic cheet if you're being kind of Buddhist it you know trying to bring compassion and love and Enlightenment into the world there's this really deep idea that when you connect Yin and Yang in yourself you also have you help the whole universe connect yin and yang and that's creates positive energy just everywhere it's a deep idea right you got something on that one no no it's just yeah no you're weaving it together and that's the and we gave some definitions of karma action mudra seal Tantra to weave yeah yeah it weaves it together the universe is woven I can remember like getting this I think where it got most I I started to have it when I was doing DS things you know I started to realize like okay from a d we're going deep but from a DS point of view the whole universe is kind of like a sexual creation you and I have talked about this before a little bit maybe off mic yeah know the Big Bang is like a big bang yeah you the original orgasm yeah yeah and you know the womb of the universe is there and the flow is going into it and here we all are right and you know like there's that there's the Y and yang at the core of that right yeah those powerful energies and or in the cabala it came apart came across too and cabala deserves its own special discussion we'll get back to it at some point but they very like there's parts of the cabala that are really amazing and that they talk that way and they say you know when you do your practice you're helping the yinyang energies of the universe coales and that creates a almost like kind of a pouring down of positive energy that can come to you but also spreads to everyone right so that that beautiful part of like you know this the the sexual imagery and the sexual energies how they can they can uh spread to connect things together yeah I think I'll say this and then maybe we should give our final shot shots here but it also makes you feel better on a daily basis oh definitely does so we should have Rory on again maybe uh Rory Hil brand he talked about this and it's interesting you know cuz he studies numerology and and he's working with a Dallas lineage that you know dates back very very far um and the way he talks about this is that what and he's a mathematician he's an acupuncturist but he has his you know whatever his Masters and Ma PhD and math whatever however it is and and what he says is that like so everybody you know is probably familiar with the the symbol of the Tai Chi right the yin and yang the two fish you know kind of chasing each other right but the way that he describes it and I love it is that that's a two-dimensional slice okay so for those who are watching now it's it's good to see you know watching it's a two-dimensional slice of a three-dimensional shape a sphere and so we think about that Tai G symbol right in the darkness there's one dot of light and in the Light Side there's one dot of Darkness but actually those dots if you flip a twodimensional if you flip a two-dimensional image and you make it three dimensions that's a c that's the center that's the center of this sphere okay two dots right and so essentially you're when you're when you're working with those energies you're creating a vacuum right in the center and what's right in the center it's the center it doesn't matter what system you're working with there's a hollow tube in every single Center of of the center of your body there's this tube and this tube sends information you know up and down up and down where in and out from the universe you know from the environment you know what I'm saying so as you're aligning yourself as you're attuning yourself with this you know with the with the yin yang essentially you are changing the way in that you're changing the your your own personal orientation your own electromagnetic orientation your own Aura if we want to be uh New Age spiritual about it right yeah yeah yeah you know but it's uh there there's physiological effects on your on your field when you do this and so I just I I just love that kind of idea that it's very mathematical to take the two-dimensional SP shape and like start to expand it out into the three dimensions and see it that way you don't hear people talk that way too much it's very unique yeah very unique yeah it's called it's called and it is a shape it's called a to you know oh okay yeah yeah yeah and so I was showing him um pictures that I have you know of my particular practice where essentially like the center you change your the by doing this practice you change the shape of your aura and you go from being like a shape like an egg to more like a cocoon now I've known this for quite some time but then he's talking about this Taurus which is essentially like a donut right and a cocoon is kind of like a weird shaped donut as well so like there's just so many similarities that it's just like it's wild once you once you start seeing like the very deep and this is and we'll we'll start we'll leave it here because we're going to pick up with this next time and maybe I'll just leave it as a cliffhanger the very deep layers of practice actual practice like for real I'm not talking Allen Iverson those for those basketball fans who know what I'm talking about he's like practice you talking about practice not a game practice no Ellen ion was like practice [...] practice yeah exactly but you know when when you start talking about deep levels of practice that transcend um ideologies that transcend dogmas that transcend cultures that transcend religions they start to look really similar in terms of what they're doing yes you kind of get to almost like uh what do they call it the primordial philosophy or The Perennial philosophy or something like that yeah so the only last yinyang thing I would say that's because it's deep in the cabala yeah is it's very fascinating because they'll say like yin and yang are kind of Yearning to unite with one another they'll say it that way there's a yearning there and they do it really beautiful in the cabala they kind of talk about almost like two lovers that are parted you know you know they have really beautiful imagery for this and then as you go and participate in this process within either in your own solar practice or with a partner whatever and you bring yin and yang together in whatever way you're doing that you know yeah um you're helping those you're helping those parts of the universe that are yearning to be United unite yeah and that gets you to sexuality and also love like you started in the beginning right there's that yearning to connect right and they do it I mean cabala is beautiful on that point too just to add another part to what you're talking about yeah yeah it's like uh that you know for those who are familiar with the with the Little Rascals the the two parts of Alfalfa's hair one's part of here one they want be I'm trying to remember his hair like I don't remember yeah I guess that could be way thinking about you put together as one Mohawk or something that's right one F Hawk yeah yeah anyways that's that's a that's I think it's a good place to stop because we're gonna next time talking about these kind of like secret aspects of of practice so um yeah we'll do misconceptions about the mahra too or about not Mah Karma MRA Karma MRA yeah yeah okay very cool thanks Daniel all right Eric thank you so much for for uh for doing this this is always a good you know a good uh a good time here I hope our audience you know enjoys our work and you know if you're uh feeling our style uh hit us up Jin and Tantra gmail.com or you know leave us a DM at Jin and Tandra podcast on the old Instagram uh if you know us personally and you want to send us text messages to say how much you love it please do that we enjoy that uh Eric is on Facebook at Eric Baker I'm on uh Facebook also at Daniel DNE so uh definitely feel free to to shout us out uh share like subscribe comment do all the things that you know people ask you to do because we're also one of those people who are out here in the social media world creating content and um sharing really things that are far older than us and uh hopefully we'll be around for a lot longer after we are gone so thank you for tuning in as always for Eric this is Daniel we'll catch you guys in the next one peace [Music] oh