[music]

Hey Pelagian Tears, those of us at the Spiritual Journey with a Twist. I have a little something in my throat. Let me clear my throat.

[clears throat and cough]

Okay, so well, we're in the midst of a one of our little series. It's one of the things we like to do on our podcast. We go to things pretty deep and so it's not like you're going to finish that one episode and we're doing some things on Carl Jung. Again, one of the most fascinating spiritual psychologist you got, which is definitely in our wheelhouse and we were talking about a few of his ideas related to Tibetan Buddhism. Especially archetypes and this idea of a thing called the diamond, d a i m o n, not a demon, a diamond. And this is sort of a continuation of our last episode where we said we were going to continue kind of talking about aspects of Tibetan Buddhism and do a little compare and contrast around some of these Union psychological ideas, especially going deep into this idea of like what a yidam is. And so that's what the project is. We'll see how far we get in this particular episode. Especially we're going to try talking about elements of empowerment into the yidam, which is like getting empowered into these Tibetan meditation practices that involve a lot of like this imagery, Tibetan Buddhist imagery. Okay, so that's what we're up to. Before we get into the the full episode of it though, if you could do what everyone always asks you to do, which is to like, subscribe, write a review, send an episode to a friend, that would be greatly appreciated. As we say every episode, our goals are to try to like share as much spiritual good times as we can and if you can give a help out, that would be greatly appreciated. And just thanks for participating in the listening too. We appreciate that as well. All righty. Um So I I wanted to like, I don't know if this makes sense to you, Daniel. We talked about some of this stuff last week, but I just wanted to like kind of clarify it even for myself. So when I was thinking about my notes for this week, I said, "Okay, let's do like a little compare and contrast thing just to make sure that we're what we're trying to say about this, you know, has some clarity to it, right? We had a kind of a deep conversation last time. I just wanted to kind of go through a little bit and then we'll talk a little bit more about this idea of empowerment. Uh okay. So, to me

Empowerment like like Buddhist empowerment.

Buddhist empowerment, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh initiation or empowerment.

Yeah, yeah, initiation, yeah.

So, I think, you know, if you want to make some comparisons and we tried to do this last week and I was just sort of brainstorming it for myself again. Certainly concerned that Yidams have these psychological features and we talked about that a little bit last episode. So, there's like the Medicine Buddha and he could be like a healer archetype and you can meditate on that. Or we talked about last episode especially Tara is sort of a mother figure. One of the big Tibetan Buddhist goddesses, she has a sort of maternal healing quality, nurturing quality to her, protective quality. We did things on sort of animal shamanic kind of power aspects with this cuz there's these Tibetan Buddhist meditation deities that have like animal features to them. We talked a lot about the buffalo-headed Yamantaka last time. You can do a little search on that if you want to peek that for yourself, fellow listener. Um there's some where there's horses involved, so you sort of get that horse energy with it. There's some that have like bird-like wing features and that all has like sort of archetypal features of like animal archetypes that can kind of give you power figures. You can see that as kind of being shamanic. Kicked that around last last episode. And Jungian thought, he has things of like masculine and feminine, which I couldn't remember if we hit super hard last episode or not. But he talks about like the anima, the inner sense of femininity, and the animus, the inner sense of masculinity or archetypes of masculine and feminine. And you get that a lot in these tantric things, too, where you have a lot of this sort of couple imagery, where it's an anima and an animus kind of together.

Yeah.

And like we talked about last episode, you feel yourself as being maybe even both parts of that couple. Or maybe you feel yourself as being one side, but kind of connecting to the anima or the animus through the other couple, other part of the couple. Or like individual figures that are anima or animus. And um you know, a lot of goddess figures especially. You know, so a lot of feminine deities that you sort of can feel this connection with, that have this kind of archetypal feeling of like anima. So from a Union point of view, you can see kind of the the power of the archetypal part of that. I just wanted to like kind of walk us through again cuz you can kind of see how you can compare this to things from Young and it's legit to do it. Do you have anything on that kind of stuff, Daniel, or should I just kind of keep rolling?

Yeah, keep going.

So to me, I think then when you get to this diamond thing that we've been talking about with different episodes when we've been doing our Young stuff lately, this is the idea that everyone has sort of like an inner guiding spirit or something, a spirit guide. And uh I guess I think the Yidam has a lot of that kind of thing too. Where you tap into this idea of your own sort of inner spirit guide kind of thing, the diamond. And uh Young did it as an element of creative imagination, which is certainly a meditative activity. So you can see it's an internal thing. You can find your sort of internal spirit guide. Um and then it's also Young, and we'll get more on this later when we talk about synchronicity, but he definitely thought that that spirit guide also acted in the world around you. So it wasn't just something inside of you. It was something also in the external world that would sort of be involved in like, you know, sort of the features of your life and working with you through what was happening in the life around you. And that has certainly connections to the idea of a Yidam. Which can be the thing that you feel inside of yourself or as yourself, but also a sort of a spiritual force in the world around you, too. So Young seems to be on top of all this stuff.

But this is a little bit this again is you know, we have new audience every episode so I get them.

Yeah, Yidam is um this idea of the Tibetan Buddhist meditation figures. Uh you can do a little search on these kinds of things. Yes, you just put in like Yidam Tibetan Buddhism, you'll see lots of this imagery pop up. And it functions as a thing that you can kind of use as a meditative technique where you can either tap into the energy of this Yidam by visualizing and meditating on it as something external to yourself. And uh you know, a typical thing might be like a healing practice where you would see the figure like Tara, this maternal figure in front of you and she'll kind of bathe you in healing energy and it's a meditative thing. Right? Tapping into the healing energies of the world around you. Or what we'll emphasize a lot today in this episode will be like you can identify as Tara yourself. And this becomes a meditative technique to try to transform your sense of your own identity from maybe like the everyday version that you think about with yourself to the more and more enlightened version you see yourself as being. But these kind of Yidam, this imagery becomes a real powerful part of like uh Tibetan Buddhist meditation. You got more on that, Daniel?

Mhm. Uh

There's so much to say about it, right?

yeah, there's that's a problem is that there's so much to say about it, but yeah, I I I don't even know where to begin. So, we'll just continue.

Well, I keep going and like things will hit us as we go.

Yeah, I just can't Yeah, it's like it

It's a deep thing. Right?

Yeah.

And this is like I think we you know, I was thinking about this as we were going in this one. There's like deep things we've talked about obviously over the years we've been doing this and I think we've done a lot of really what I would feel be important episodes on important subjects, right? And I was like this is a really important one, too. I don't know where it goes on the list of important things, but this is obviously a really deep and important thing. To my mind.

Yeah, I mean that's kind of like, you know, we've mentioned this before, but like the the idea of like guardian angels or genius, right? This the guiding Yeah. The guiding spirits or, you know, spirit guides or however you want to do however you're looking to describe these kinds of influences on your life that these figures that you meditate on not only are a source of attention capture in order to pull you in to that uh that tantric world. But then they are also um beings in a sense that you develop a relationship with them and with that practice. And so, they then whether they do or they don't, this is you know, we and we could debate anything, but we this is the debate the debatable part, whether they exist outside of your attention or not. When you start to develop a relationship they I don't want to say they come alive, but that's the best way I could say it is they come alive. It's sort of like reading a uh uh a really good book or like a uh you know, a fiction story, you know, a sci-fi, right? We'll use maybe uh The Lord of the Rings. You read Lord of the Rings and for those people who read or you listen, maybe better say, you listen to Lord of the Rings on audiobook and the world gets created in your mind. You create the characters. They don't always describe how they look specifically, but usually they'll give you some description. And then they they kind of talk to them talk to the reader about their personality traits and how they react in this situation and in that situation and you eventually develop the look of this person, the feel of this person, the sound of their voice, the world they live in, and how they act. And then even in some cases, you might put yourself and you might see it as a in a first-person perspective as opposed to just a third-person perspective. And this is actually a very good way of describing a Yidam and a a a meditative practice for, you know, Buddhist tantra practice, really. And so in in, you know, in a long the same vein, as you develop a practice and you begin to work with these images, with these Yidams, with these deities, with however you want to describe them, they become a part of your life. They become a part of your life. Just like how Jesus would be a part of, so you know, a Christian person's life or, you know, whatever. It doesn't matter. Uh they become real and they start to influence you as you carry them around and and do the practice. And so it it brings up changes with you, you know, just like if you're, you know, again, reading The Lord of the Rings, uh you might see somebody acting really stingy and you you might be like, "Gollum." Gollum, you know, Smeagol. Yeah, it's my my precious. You know, so they the the the story starts to feed into your life a little bit. And I think the same thing goes for the the iconographic iconographic meditative practices is much in the same way.

Well, you know, like in Jung, he uses this idea of active imagination that you purposely let your mind use its imaginative faculty, right?

Mhm.

As a spiritual thing. And then I think in terms of like, is this just a figure of my own inner psychic world or does this this have an identity beyond my own inner psychic world? Jung wrestles like how with this, obviously. And you know, as we talked about in a couple of these other episodes, he was afraid to talk about the to the extent that he began to feel like, "No, these are forces of the actual world around me." This isn't just an internal thing. This is like something that transcends just my own individual psyche. Well, that's an uncomfortable subject matter. Right? For someone who's a psychologist. And you know, he wrote this in much more private writings and shared it with people more privately before he felt comfortable. He probably never felt comfortable really fully doing this publicly. Right?

Right.

Hence this whole famous thing of the Red Book. Liber Novus that was published after his death where he really talks about this.

Mhm.

But as far as it goes, uh yeah, great kind of stuff around this. And you know, the more ways you can kind of like look at this whether it's like, "Okay, I can enter into a fictive world very strongly and it can be just transformative to me."

Mhm.

Right? And maybe in moments I feel like I want to identify identify with the qualities of like I don't know the names of the characters in Lord of the Rings. Gandalf, there's a guy.

There is a guy.

I want to identify as Gandalf. I want to want to embody the quality of a Gandalf, the magician.

Frodo. Perseverance, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, perseverance and strength of will.

Aragorn and

He's the paladin, right?

Yeah.

Um well, for Young he had this character that, you know, he had multiple these things that he found within himself. And we talked about this character of Philemon who has, you know, uh a diamond and archetypal figure sort of like a wisdom figure like a Gandalf. But for Young he was like a Gnostic philosopher. And he would like tap into this feeling. And I didn't say it last time, but it was kind of interesting cuz some of this had a little of that tantric feeling. Cuz he also saw like a female figure. Sometimes she would appear as like kind of like a red lady. We can talk about that more a little bit later. You know, but that's kind of like a figure Well, I'll do it now. Red lady has this feeling of like the inner feminine and like passion and energy and transformation, right? All those things you can get with this color, red, passion and fire and transformation of heat and all this kind of stuff. Alchemy. Right? But even with like Philemon, he's would see I think uh him as sometimes like um he would identify him with like these um uh consort couples. There's a biblical figure named Simon Magus who people say he's like maybe the first Gnostic philosopher. He shows up actually in the Bible. And he has a partner named Helen. And they're a couple. And I was like thinking, you know, that's like has that kind of uh uh tantric quality of the couple, the yin and the yang. And Jung seems to feel that way about them. You know, the male in the couple is the represents the masculine energies and the female that he saw inside represented the feminine, anima and animus. Right? And he had spirit guides that had those qualities. So, Simon Magus Magus and his partner Helen or sometimes he would talk about Elijah and Salome, which is kind of a weird biblical pairing. But anyways, he had these images of these male-female couples that he felt inside of himself. And they were kind of all spirit guides for him. And that has a real tantric resonance, you know, cuz there's a lot of these things where you kind of meditate on, like we said, the couple, the yab-yum, right? And you identify with those things as being spirit guides inside you. So, I know, to me that like, you know, has a lot of this, you know, quality of the yin and then we can also talk about sort of sort of like what we mentioned a little bit last time, which is the symbology around this. If you do do a search for these uh Buddhist tantric images, they have like lots of arms and they carry lots of things and they have all these symbolic aspects to how they look. And Jung seems to have that too in his archetypes and in his diamonds. Uh so, Philemon, this Gnostic philosopher guy, has these wings of a kingfisher, which means he can kind of transcend the norms. We talked about that. Or again, the red lady, you know, this idea of seeing this red figure inside who's this, you know, passionate electric, you know, transformative figure. Those colors and those images are sort of have symbolic meaning. So, anyways, I think there's a lot of like when you want to see this tantric stuff, this tantric Buddhist stuff through a Union lens you could do it. That's the point. So, I just wanted to like talk about some of those similarities and we kind of did it. And I think even what you're talking about Daniel, when you talk about something like the Lord of the Rings, well, that's like archetypal everywhere. That's why people relate to it so strong, right? You can feel all of that energy. I'm watching like I didn't finish Stranger Things before. Did you ever watch that Daniel?

I watched the first season.

Yeah, so anyways, it has that feeling. You can kind of it's emotional because you can feel some of those archetypal things and they play it. Right? The band of comrades out on a mission together and they all have their relationships and they all take their different roles and all this stuff.

[laughter]

So, archetypal. Okay. The different part that we wanted to get to and we can start it now and maybe we won't finish it time allowing, but um whatever we don't finish, we'll get to next time. We kind of promised we were going to do this, so I wanted to you know, we both wanted to make sure we wanted to follow up on this, which is like when you get introduced to a Yidam in the Tibetan Buddhist world and the tantric Buddhist world, uh it's not just Tibet, but you know, Bhutan, [clears throat] Nepal, these countries that are tantric. These practices that are tantric, it tend to do kind of an initiation. Where you first get introduced to the practice by someone who will work as the teacher, kind of initiating you into the practice. So, we wanted to talk a little bit about how that works. And they really have like different stages. So, it's um it really gives you a feeling of like what a Yidam really is as you kind of understand the different parts of this sort of empowerment initiation thing. You get a better feeling of what a Yidam really fully represents. And then you can see the contrasts and the and the comparisons to some of the Union things, you know, that we've been talking about. So, um the initiation itself is a little bit like sort of a ritual magic thing. Came up a few episodes we were talking about whether or not we talk about ritual magic, and I was thinking, well, a lot of ritual magic pops up in what we're doing cuz a lot of this Tibetan stuff is infused with this kind of ritual magic feeling. So, when you're doing these initiations, it's almost like there's kind of a uh the ritual introduction to the practice that sort of primes your mind and your energy and your body to connect to the practice. The word for this thing is really uh actually I don't it's interesting to look at what it is. So, in Tibetan they call it a wang, w a n g. And the meaning of that is belongs to me.

[laughter]

Which I thought that's an interesting thing. I usually just think when I see that word empowerment or initiation. But the literal meaning means belongs to me. Where you're going to go through and you're going to take this practice and you're going to personalize it for yourself. Now, it belongs to you. And that can be personalizing the Yidam in the sense of multiple multiple ways of thinking about that. Certainly idea like I'm not going to attach to this. That's sort of my diamond. I'm inviting you into my life as my diamond. I'm going to connect with you in that way. Either as an external thing like you're talking about Daniel or in your own imagination, whatever that means to you, but you're trying to connect to that feeling, you know, that energy and that quality of that. And then also if we're getting to what we're going to talk about which is going to be this thing called highest yoga tantra. There's different levels of the tantras. We're going to talk about the ones that are most common if you like look at like the school of like the Dalai Lama or something. This is like the most common ones you're going to get, and they're actually kind of advanced on some level and they're very interesting to walk your walk their way through, but as a point of like self-identification. So, it's not just like you tap into this as an external force in your life that's healing or nourishing, but you identify as that healing, nourishing, enlightened and enlightening thing. You identify with it. So, that's the belongs to me.

[laughter]

You know, I think that's phrase is kind of amazing. Um you know, that the word they have for this is belongs to me. I think that's kind of awesome. We've had some interesting linguistic stuff, genius in some of our episodes, you know.

But it shows the the personalization of all of this.

Totally agree. Yeah.

And I think that's the one of the main differences in tantric practice in general. It doesn't necessarily even have to be Buddhist tantra, you know, the any of these practices that get you know, given to people really cuz they are given to you. Um that you take them and they become yours. So, again, we'll go I'll go back to the Lord of the Ring example. You and I are going to read the same book. But how people if you and I were to draw exactly what we were uh imagining in our minds based on how the characters look, they would probably look very different. They would probably look very different. They'd probably sound very different. I mean, I'm I'm sure they all his long white beard. Okay, so but what what does a long white beard on a old wizard look like to you versus look like to me? Now, many of these practices are accompanied by pictures, but they weren't always. They were not always. And sometimes as time goes on, the different artists have different renditions of the same image. And different artists' renditions may look more in line with how you view those images within yourself. Or you can even create your own. There's not a steadfast rule. They said if someone has

Your imagination isn't like an absolute camera or something, right? You're going to you're going to make what you're talking about. You're going to make it personal to you. Yeah.

Yeah, and that's really one of the one of the many lovely parts. It's that it is the it is intentionally the opposite of dogma. And and now maybe there could be some people here and you're more than welcome to leave a comment or disagree with us at ginandtantra@gmail.com based on your own, you know, experiences with with tantric practice or Buddhism in general. You know, of course there is some you know, the the steps to empowerment, there are steps. There is a is an order. And you know, we could debate how that order should be done and and what it is things certain mean and is there a kind of a religiosity to it? Yeah, of course. Of course. But we are I think taking the approach of the experience and the teachings and the practice less the pomp and circumstance of, you know, some of the, you know, religious practice that goes along with it. I believe that some of the ritualistic stuff is important.

For sure. As you talked about there's a there's an element of ritual magic that's there.

But some people have a harder time connecting with that sort of thing based really primarily out of like western logic. I think it it inhibits the sensation of awe in many occurrences. And so these things tend to feel a little bit more mechanical than magical. Um but even if you take those things away, the actual practice is designed to be integrated into your life. Not just a life. It's yours in particular. And then as you go through and you begin to become more familiar with these things as you do anything else, when you get instruction from qualified people who have been practicing for a long time and are, you know, able to teach, you will get instruction that is for you. Not just for everybody. And you and and it's part and and you know, Eric, you can pop in, but like there are say you know, Eric and I work with you know, a couple of the same teachers and they make it they make themselves explicitly available when you go and work with them for longer periods to say, "Hey, I'm going to be setting up times to talk." They don't say about what, but it's generally about practice. Could be about life, too, though. Sometimes it's a little bit of both. But they'll say, "What are some sticking points? Hey, Eric, what are I'm going to give time to talk. Let's Tell me what's going on in your practice, you know?" Amongst everything else, you will definitely talk about practice. You might talk about your boyfriend, girlfriend, you know, all the things, but for sure you're going to talk about practice and say, "You know, I'm I'm working on this thing. What do you think?" And it's just about your specific practice and I have never been told really by anybody, by you or by anybody else, "That's wrong." It's usually, "That's interesting. Have you thought about it this way?" You know? And I think it's out of a deep reverence for the vast array of experiences that are possible and not wanting to tell somebody that that thing that you've been doing for hours and hours and hours for weeks and months and what Yeah, that's wrong. Throw it out. You know, you know, but like more steering the ship like guiding a river. You just sort of like gently say, "Okay, did you think about this?" So, I just find all of this to be very helpful because it's it's personal and and not, you know,

I think we agree with the idea that that no matter what it has to be personal on some level, right? Otherwise, it's not

Yeah.

Otherwise, it doesn't belong to you per the word. It has to become personalized. There's a Zen thing about this and again, we like to draw on like our different experiences around this. I spent years studying Zen, too, and sometimes they'll say these things like it's a narrow gate, but it's 10,000 miles wide. What do you mean by saying that? Well, it means like on the one hand, you're going to you're aiming for something that you want to understand and you know, you'll have to work towards it. But on the other hand, there's might be 10,000 different approaches to go through that gate because there's going to be all kinds of different people with all kinds of different starting points to get through the gate.

[laughter]

Right? So, you know, at in some level it has to be personal. And that could be like in different parts of all of the ranges of the experiences, like how you think about it, how exactly the nuances of the visualizations and the different meditative energetic experiences feel to you. And I My general experience has been there's a there's a certain amount of flexibility with this for sure.

Mhm.

Where people like, "Okay, that's what you need to do to make this work? Okay."

Right.

With Kunga Drolchok or with Lama Glenn Mullin, you know, kind of people I had maybe the most conversations with. But you I read a lot of the Dalai Lama, you know, he's a teacher of mine, too. I've had initiations and these wongs with him as well. And you know, there's there's a flexibility to it because there's an acknowledgement that it has to become meaningful to you personally. As far as the Yidam goes, I think he understands [clears throat] that, too. Very much so, right? You know, for the other little compare and contrast, I think he gets it. I think on some level all this stuff has to have subjective meaning to you, otherwise it can't be transformative. Right? If you can't relate to it, it's not going to transform you.

Correct.

Yeah.

Mhm.

I don't know how much time we have left. Let's at least say that there's we'll we'll promise to finish this in the other episode cuz this is a spot for us. I don't know when you have to hop, Daniel.

It's probably a good point to pause here. We'll finish this.

Let me just say there's four parts of this thing that we'll talk to as our main thing for the next episode cuz we've been promising to do this. This will be one of our again I think all of these episodes we've been doing to me feel important and deep, right? And you know, we have all these different episodes with different things and they all have their own depth, but you know, to walk through these four stages of what an empowerment is is helpful just on the practical level of understanding what it is, but it also will give us a deeper sense of like what a Yidam is.

Yeah.

Because each of these different stages tells you something about what you're supposed to feel about this idiom. Sorry about that. Yeah.

No, and I think in from a even just a larger perspective, you know, there are some major religions in the world and I think people would probably put Buddhism, you know, you have like, you know, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, kind of like the big three.

Hinduism, yeah.

Yeah. But then and then you'll have like Buddhism, Hinduism, and you know, maybe Jainism and all you know, all these other all these other ones, you know. But most people generally don't know dick about anything else other than their own. Outside of pejoratives, right? Just like negative stereotypes. And this is a way in which I think people who may have never heard some of this stuff before can be sort of initiated into these practices from people who practice them, A, and come from a Western mind and we're talking about them in sort of like an educated conversation for people to do with as they please. But probably you're not going to really find this in this manner on the internet and I could say that with a pretty strong sense of authority because I don't know how many even Western lamas, even like Westerners who became Buddhist monks, they they because they're in the the monastery and they're representing a certain school of Buddhism, which there are several schools of Buddhism, we're not going to do that right now. But they have to represent their school, so they're going to present the thing in a certain way and they're going to talk about it in this way. We are taking this far more as a a practitioner's perspective, from an artist's perspective, from a teacher's perspective. And if you're going to be a teacher, you have to be a student. And so we are doing both at the same time. And I think that this is a really nice way to learn, you know, kind of like world religion essentially, in a very informal kind of way. So, for those who never took a world religion course, and you never got to hear much about this, which you even which you wouldn't have even even if you took

give a about this anyways. Yeah.

No, no, no. You're getting a really deep dive into probably the entrance into this practice. So, if this is calling to you, and and you want to learn more, then you continue to turn in tune in to the next, you know, probably one to two episodes. Um and if you have any questions, feel free to email us, or comments, or talking all the above. Leave a comment below. I'll respond to it. Uh feel free to hit us up on Instagram at the Jin and Tantra podcast. Uh you can hit us up at on on the email at the Jin and Tantra What is it? No, Jin and Tantra at gmail.com. So, that's that's it. You're welcome in advance. You know, Eric, anything else, or

No, it makes total sense what you're saying. And like, we will try to go through this. And I think part of what we're trying to get to, you know, we we practice seriously, but we're trying to get to like accessibility, too, hopefully.

Yeah.

Right? Where you get to learn some things. This is deep. So, there's always going to be something a little challenging about it, cuz it's deep materials. You know, you're not going to have a podcast on like Nietzsche, and it's going to be shallow. Like, that ain't happening.

No.

Right? [clears throat] It's going to be deep. But, you know, part of our idea is like to present these tantric spiritual zen all our the stuff that we love, and present it in a way that can resonate with, you know, people who come from the backgrounds that we come from, too, right?

Yeah.

Come from the head space that they're coming from. And I think you know, Jung in this sense is sort of like a vehicle to help us talk about these things, too. He's fascinated by these things as well. So,

Yeah.

maybe it taps into a little of the psychology part that appeals appeals to a lot of like 20th century people, too.

He's our gateway drug.

He is.

[laughter]

It's true. It's not a lie.

It's not a lie.

Start messing with Young, you don't know where it's going to go. So, be careful.

it's going to go. That's right. Well, you know, this is the this is a

be careful. Jump in. What the Go for it.

right. Naked. Uh but, you know, this is this is Gin and Tantra and this is definitely the Tantra part of Gin and Tantra. So, you know, we're uh we're happy to to be doing it. So, Eric, gracias a mucho audience, gracias a mucho. I give you all the stuff that I always give you at the end of the at the end of the episode, but uh like, comment, subscribe, share, whatever, do the things, you know, we're doing this cuz we enjoy doing it. So, we appreciate everybody tuning in. If you made it to this far in the episode, your attention span is vastly outpacing the rest of the world. Congratulations. Uh may you have a good rest of your day. Eric, thank you so much. Audience, thank you so much. Bye-bye.