[Music] hey fellan tears those of us like are spiritually with a Twist usually there's like a little button for me to hit but it didn't pop up this time so I was like momentarily Frozen ah Daniel always changing constantly changing rearranging all right so we're working on the obstacles we're in obstacle number five um and it's an interesting one we're going to emphasize the idea of being plagued by self-inflicted suffering but I wasn't sure you wanted to read it again Daniel yeah no no we're gonna read it I'm gonna read it okay maybe May me give it a shout out because it's kind of an interesting one the way it's phrased okay so obstacles as as we are deeming them and as in the that's what the book says but we're calling we're calling them uh nine things that will [...] up your life certainly can so this would be the uh the fifth one so if you've been following along we did uh one two four and then five we will Circle back to number three at some point uh we started on three but we didn't finish on three three was I think when we went into our long thing about like uh dosm and Confucianism yeah maybe we started there that was three that was a start of three yeah yeah anyway so I'm going to read this one and then to give people the the the thing um and so again for those who are you know keeping score that's this this book that we're working out of is the da of longevity Dow of Health longevity IM mortality uh the teachings of Chung and La translated by Eva Wong so here's this is the passage we'll be working from in your youth you were unwilling to cultivate and in your old age you continue to injure your spirit even when you lose your vitality and become ill your mischievous mind still refuses to wake up or you were born into hardship and were doomed to suffer all of your life being plagued by self-inflicted suffering and crushed by a difficult livelihood this is the fifth obstacle so I guess what we pointed out first before we go into like the deeper dives into maybe what will be the heart of the episode was that there's like these two different things going on there and like to me it seemed very Chinese to jam those two things together where you're kind of like okay do they totally belong together there's a thing in the Chinese medical world where they do they say that there's four examinations but then one of them is listening smelling like jammed together and you're like what's that yeah sometimes that seems to happen in Chinese books I don't know but uh it had a little that vibe to me um and I guess we kind of see I to my mind I think we acknowledge the fact that there are people who are born in situations that are just extremely difficult like all the time I think that was from almost the very first episodes we recorded yeah so I feel like we we talked about that one a lot with a lot of compassion and I guess the general position on that would be like where you can try to find your moments or something right yeah it seems to have been the add itude and where you feel like you can make progress in changes guess you're Tred to make them I remember that even like some of the like we were very new pups in this whole thing and we were just recording things during the pandemic and that was like a major thing we wanted to make clear about right talk about things that people could do but with the acknowledgement that there are people who are really going through hard times right and still are yeah I mean still are yeah still are always it's constant it's constant thing yeah yeah yeah yeah or like in the the model that I like where there's these sort of for levels of human motivation some people are just struggling just to get by in the world right yeah yeah uh that was yung's quote about like to be normal is the ideal aim of the unsuccessful which sounds harsh but what he goes on to really say is like he means by unsuccessful people who are like struggling hard just to hold [...] together so for them to get to the position where they can feel secure is uh you know their major motivation and accomplishment you know and that that's Financial but that's also like with people who struggle with health issues you know we're medical practitioners some people have really bad you know things that are that they've just that they've inherited or that they have developed as time has gone on or have you know allergies things or you know victims of various kinds of traumas or whatnot so daily life is being successful in daily life what we would consider quote unquote successful is a big win for some people who have a hard time getting up yeah yeah and like like I had a friend who worked really training uh people with Autism right that was he run a school for autistic kids or was he didn't run it but he was the he was the dean of it you know like the principal took a long time to get to that word but um you know like for him like getting the kids just to be able to kind of function in the normal way and you know those are all accomplishments so yeah you can certainly have a lot of compassion for that Jung's thing I mean just to finish that is to go like yes but if you're like a person who can be successful in the world and you just stop there that's not good yeah he's calling that out but otherwise yeah if you you know this whole thing of you know being crushed by the world around you which they describing in this DS book it's interesting that they they say that you know they don't really give much of a remedy for it in the immediate in that chapter either they just kind of like okay some people are in this situation you know if you read the rest of the thing they doesn't seem that they really talk about what you're supposed to do about it not that they talk about what you're supposed to do about any of those things in a lot of detail but it's just kind of thrown out there just like okay so you're like okay some people have it like like really tough so anyways I think our advice as far as it could be advice you know people need our advice I don't know but as far as we're talking and people might be listening I think the way we've been talking about the whole time does show like the right Spirit and the right heart and the right compassion about it right and you feel that way about it yeah no totally I um I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before to you or on here but I used to work for this um education secondary education um it was I think it was hosted by national Lewis University which is like a teaching school here in the Midwest and um they had this program called the PACE program professional assistant center for education and basically what it was it was like a 2-year post High School quote unquote college education for higher functioning mentally handicapped people persons so Asperger type people down syndrome people who had some you know head trauma and didn't get you know fully developed and whatnot and so I I taught like the the fitness and diet classes for them how to you know choose better Foods why is brown rice better than white rice for you know all these kinds of things you know and it really I mean I have a soft spot for for those kinds of folks in this lifetime for sure as I have many soft spots it's basically only a soft spot that's all that's remaining just a a bruised Plum of a heart um but it really gave to what how we're talking about it gave me perspective and like you're talking about you know just like tidbits of something to think about for me the the idea that people can use to kind of help themselves through this is perspective and we will we'll open that up a little bit more towards the end of the conversation hopefully today but that's you know like you mentioned to me on the phone Eric maybe about a month ago I think you said something along the lines of like um Insight is the motivator for insight as the motivator for change yeah yeah yeah so we'll you know that's the teaser for the end so if you could stick around to the end which is not a lot of people just throwing it out there at the beginning like 10% of listeners finish the video or the the the the discussion until the end so maybe we can tease some folks or trick however you want to call it to the to state that they finished yeah see the little foreshadowing of the Cliffhanger yeah yeah yeah um all right so there's a lot of stuff in here about kind of like torturing yourself with your own thoughts and emotions and refusing to wake up yes and I wanted to go as personal as I could on this sure because of the torturing yourself with your own thoughts uh it's interesting in the notes because I wrote something about like I was I was like literally in the notes when I wrote this thing it was a while ago I said I was thinking about this past this this past week was somethingone I considered to be a true soulmate and anxiety had come up and in the interim of that uh as it turns out fellow g& teers fellow fellow g& tier listeners your friendly one of your two friendly neighborhood uh spiritual podcast hosts has had a rough ride these last few weeks not been easy and uh uh this person who I was referencing is this soulmy person like uh it's really funny but like cut ties with me like boom you know and we were like super close even as far as last Friday and Saturday as close as we've ever been but cut and uh I was like so I'm going to have to like think about what all that means I don't want to go into the details of all that but I realized as we were doing this episode I was like well I am in the midst of like this so it's a good time for maybe to for me to talk about this kind of a thing because uh you know I got the little internal torture chamber going right I'm not able to sleep I'm not able to eat all the classic good time parts so many good so many good R&B songs about that Eric I know I'm gonna be listening to all of them everybody play the pool sometimes there's no exception to the rule that's right I ain't lying um so and like it's interesting because like the kind of I mean it's been a few weeks of this up and down and it's been mentioned in episodes here and there in passing or Dan and I have talked about before we got on and like the kind of thing where it's like painful enough where you sort of just have to accept that you probably won't be the same person afterwards or something and we've all been through those kinds of things you're like wow this is really painful and this is going to change me somehow like I'm just not going to be the same same human afterwards right and I know you've had experiences like that I've had experiences like that but this is like on that level of like wow because it was something I thought that i' would be close with for the rest of my life or something and I I don't don't if I totally get it but it's not the business of talking about that um don't know if I totally understand it but that's the person's own business anyway is and I don't want to dwell on that part but like you know where you're like really in a kind of like where it hurts and it's like affecting you so deep where you're like wow this is going to change me somehow so since I'm in the midst of this it seemed like a good time to talk about emphasizing the part about what do you do about getting tortured by your own thoughts and maybe we'd go through and just talk about some like meditative techniques around that a little bit because I'm going to have to be doing them with some uh with some seriousness so I know we'll go back and forth maybe right Daniel I'll throw some out you can give me your reaction to it yeah well I first thought and this is in the notes when they first put this one together before I knew I'd be talking about it in this way but I brought up a couple of things that are from with it's called the mahamudra lineages mahamudra means Great Seal and it's part of the kind of Tibetan part of the world Buddhist lingo and it's kind of a meditation a little bit less based it depends on how you do it there's different way that means different things to different people but um uh it it can be more of a thing where you're not necessarily meditating as much on Mandela things or some of the more things that you might associate with Tibet in Buddhism it can be like different style of meditation techniques and some of that might over a little bit with what you might think of as being more Zen or some other kinds of things like that too right it's not always as elaborate though there's debates of what this means I got the Maham mudri uh line is presented from G rache so I want to give a shout out to the late great G rache because he was the one who taught me this I was up in uh over in Arbor you know kind of spending the week getting the transmission that's a big deal in the Tibetan world you get some kind of transmission into a thing so I I did go through this training right um though my main practice maybe isn't exactly this so they kind of say a couple of things about this I thought I'd throw it like now with the context so we like to put context so we did right so um otherwise they kind of talk about a couple of big ideas here one is they can make a comparison to someone who is fighting off someone who's shooting arrows at them so there's an Archer who's perpetually shooting arrows and you're a swords person and you're spinning this sword and as the arrows are coming at you you just clink every arrow that comes at you by the spinning of your sword right as a kind of a technique so this is a little bit more like a cutting of the thoughts kind of approach to things right right which we've talked about on here before for sure maybe not with the swords person image right I mean MRI is my homeboy so you know yeah yeah yeah well it's a mry kind of a thing right yeah the spinning sword right of wisdom you know this this is considered to be Obviously good there's ups and downs to it because it's the whole idea like can you keep your SP sword spinning forever or can you always catch every single Arrow or something like that so the mahud Tex talk about this in kind of an interesting way it's not obvious like they're saying it's the best one but it is a thing you can do but look at myself there are moments like this where you have to go like okay I got to cut this thought these thoughts have to be cut these thoughts have to be cut so and maybe that even that sword image does kind of speak it Taps into maybe a little bit of the Marshal part of each of us the martial RC parts of each of us all of us have a little of that in us right and the part that wants to like function in that way it's a bit more Yang a bit more assertive or something what do you think of that as a technique though do you do that in your life I mean I do that every day Eric I do that every single day you know because it's it is it is the the act of cutting right that does the thing but it's also the act of like I want to I'll call it whirling you know it's also this circular movement that is present I mean I don't know offhand of a of a single meditative spiritual practice that there is not turning there is not some turning now this is like very I don't know we're going to go so deep so quick but like people who are listening they're like okay so you're spinning a sword and you're cutting your stream of thought yes on the outside that is exactly what you're doing understand also this is um mental energetic this is human technology that has been passed down as one of the oldest means for freeing yourself from repetitive and as we're going to call it in the name of of this episode The the mischievous mind so it does not get talked about this does not get mentioned in in in unless you're in a in like a very kind of small uh setting where there are teachers and students who they can pass it down something like this so this is being presented to the world um kind of open so our several hundred thousand followers or our listeners I don't like followers I don't you know I'm not I'm no one's leader by by any stretch I can barely lead myself you know um but this kind of Technology of whirling is present in many many many techniques and it is extremely effective and damn near ubiquitous but I feel like when that happens you can have this moment where it gives you a zone of like mental clarity as the thought seems to come in you hack it right or it's kind of a stream so in that sense it's probably like a stream of arrows and you're you know yeah and you like kind of clip the stream and then for a little moment especially if you're in the midst of something that might be really painful like you know I'm sharing I'm going through it right I'm in the midst so you know when you get that you can have these little moments of like Bing and you can get these little moments of clarity right kind of like in between the arrows or something like that right you have these moments where you can try to return back to some more core part of who you are does that match your experience of it too yeah that's in the yoga tradition this is known as uh darana and Diana danana I think is the Turning of your attention or your the focusing and the raise of your attention and Di is the return of your ATT attention to the source of attention right so as you're doing this turning you are creating a kind of a whirlwind a force field if you will and so you know we we' be remiss if we didn't mention uh the use of like vajas in this case vajra is like a seen as a weapon or Eric is talking about a sword um and that in in many like what do you want to call it vadic text or even Eastern philosophical text there's many deities or you know enlightened beings that are holding weapons in their hands and traditionally it's talked about as their weapons to fight off evil but they're not referring to like you know I'm not Abbot and Costello is the wrong analogy but like you know cello versus the the Dracula or yeah yeah they're not referring that's so old school from you right well like 1950s black and white comedians thanks for making a reference you know I was like wow man Daniel went deep Evan and Castello wow that's like who's on first [...] no one knows that [...] either that's I know no one knows I I only know it because my grandmother told me you know what I'm saying like it's it was a bit right but no but there these images are referencing people who are supposed to be you know fighting external evil but in reality that's just the imagery the internals they're they're doing this internally they're using these you know quote unquote weapons not in term not to to be offensive but to protect themselves from their own mischievous mind from their own attachments from their own demons in this case well I mean like M sword is a sort of wisdom right it's supposed to cut through delusions right that's the primary idea of that right or the Buddhist goddess says a lot of times they'll have this like they're kind of like little butcher Cleavers yeah right and but they're supposed to cut through delusions that's the idea of it right yeah yeah yeah so anyway so that's the sword one right that's mentioned mened in the mahamudra thing right one way of kind of dealing with the Mind especially when the mind is kind of like flipping out my mind is flipping out um or the other has to do with like this idea of a bird that's released on a boat out in the middle of the ocean yeah so the thought is the bird and the bird can fly around and you can kind of watch the bird fly around a little bit but the bird doesn't really have any choice but eventually come back to what you're talking about the source of where the bird comes from right that that turning back right and in that moment you get the clarity of like okay the bird's coming back right it does create potentially a little distance because you could be the person on the boat observing the bird yeah as opposed to like I'm the bird right and the bird is the word another dated thing back references we're really 1970s we're appealing to our audience 60 and above right now Eric so the demos are Chang allow your not like non-attachment you know and that you allow the thoughts to kind of come through past bring your awareness with them follow them through and then eventually your mind will return it's mindfulness without effort right I supp part that's supposed to be interesting about it is like it eventually has to come to the boat I think that's the thing So eventually all the thoughts have to go back to the core of the mind or something like that right yeah the thought go back to the core of the mind then you found something you know then you found yourself on the boat I think that's the Twister on it maybe yeah that there is this kind of like U magnetic quality of the mind to itself and that you don't you know so as like as like a technical aspect right the in the previous one you sit on your meditation cushion or you stand or whatever you're doing you know you lie down and you just imagine that inside is just spinning knives or swords and just cutting everything that comes to your mind and that's what you do in this one you provide no resistance you ride all of the waves of your thoughts to the end of their permutations only to find yourself having back returned to where you are as the bird in the middle of the ocean must return to the boat because there's nowhere else to land or it might be like again that that's kind of making yourself more like the bird you might be the person watching from the boat sure you can yeah you watch you watch the bird fly around and you're kind of standing there on the boat and eventually realize well this whatever these flittering thoughts are that kind of semi suck yeah in different ways they're going to have to come back to this boat anyways where I am you know yeah so maybe different place of playing that you know the other part about it's kind of interesting the way that you're talking about it for me going through like in the thick of things in the Heat of the Moment another old song oh that's 80s though I think right I think it's 80s right yeah was the Heat of the Moment there you go they do that on um Supernatural this show I love okay anyways uh so so maybe not if you've watched that show ever but that's getting dated too but if you look at this kind of a thing um if you're in the Heat of the Moment I'm like thinking like this is stuff that you actually have to do in that moment not even just when you're on the meditation cushion like so maybe it's the kind of idea that you practice this when you're sitting there by yourself okay I'm gonna work on this part of myself but then like can I carry this out into my life because otherwise my mind's gonna be coming back doing this you know torture chamber thing when I'm not in that right because I'm in moment you know show me show me what my heart meant I think that's the next line that's but this is this comes to the larger point is that like all of this is a preparation for life like meditation is not a sensation of thinking I somebody was mentioning Transcendental Meditation and look anything that brings anybody to sit down and do Mantra or do whatever I I don't hate on it I I I really don't but I could the analogy that I use it's like buying a Lamborghini and then only driving it to the Walgreens to get cigarettes and gum you know and then driving it back home and then when you go on the freeway you you hop in your Honda Civic and uh you know that's and you know it doesn't it doesn't allow for people to experience the depth of a potential practice that has real roots in it you know what I'm saying and somebody was telling me about their one of my clients was telling me about their boss who's been doing Transcendental Meditation TM for many years and he said he could quote stop his thoughts for 12 minutes straight and I said okay and then he's like well I would love 12 minutes he's like well I would love to do that and I said okay and I mean and then that then what now and now and now is that some kind of prowess something to be proud of like first of all how do you know it's 12 minutes are you timing yourself and if you're thinking about how long it is you're having a thought you know at that time well I mean the whole idea that the purpose of meditation is just to stop your thoughts I was really relieved back in the Zen thing where they said like no that's not the purpose at all right and that's that's my point is that that that's not good to get away from that right yeah that like there's numerous meditation like exercise numerous ways you could be a marathon runner you could be a powerlifter you just say exercise I could meditation I could be a Zen practitioner counting my breath bre or I could be doing this sword spinning thing on the outside it looks the same I'm doing meditation but you really you're not trying to erase yourself while you're there it's a prepar it's a it's a deepening of it's many things but in in a couple points it's a deepening of your understanding of yourself capital S right the small one in the way to getting to the big one but in that way first and then maybe more importantly for people's regular life because Capricorn # practical iorn I guess that's you know is that it's a preparation for your life how do you deal with things so you know you got stuff going on right now your meditation practice is absolutely informing the way that you are going about what you're going about right now well I mean like the Deep part it's like what's the point of doing any of this if your life doesn't change what's the point it's always been that problem you know like from the minute we started doing these podcasts it was always like okay if you don't actually change if you if you don't challenge change your life rewrite your own story rewrite your own myth do things in a different way then this [...] doesn't have any point yeah except for the thing that might make you feel a little bit happier that is true right and that's a reason to do it too but you know like our goal in doing this was the idea like yeah you actually try to transform your life make it difference right yeah and Eric you were mentioning earlier about like you know having these entang deep entanglements with people you know not entanglements is a rough way of putting it but engagements relationships you know that could you know be really beneficial or or really hard in some ways you know somebody cuts you off or whatnot and we talked about this I don't know if it was last last episode or the one before and and I asked the question why which and if I'm listening to this I'm thinking like okay well then don't do that and you won't have to go through those kinds of things but I remember um what you said and I'll share it with you as you shared it with me previous so reflection okay you had mentioned that there are opportunities in relationships that arise from potential karmic bonds or moments of deepening of connection but that the story of that isn't written and the outcome of that is not guaranteed to be anything in particular but the ride along that process is ultimately a deepening one for the person I.E you know uh Shams of tiis and roomie MH and so even though the end of it is like a rough being a little bit rough shot you are better for it after you have gone through it or if not better for it you're at least more you're youve been deepened you know in that way I would like to believe in the tantric stories they don't end tragic the jjo Christian Islamic ones they end tragic this culture doesn't like this [...] well no stories bad there's always that but if you're in like the toning tradition the end kind of cheery so I'll get to that more in a little bit like there's a question of like yeah I have to ask this question myself too like is this samsara so thick that it's hard to make these things work but I I okay so we'll we'll build to it right there's some foreshadowing and maybe we talk about some meditations have to do with sexuality so we can get more the percentage of the listeners to continue on or something all right so I was going to talk about the pure concentration and going back but you kind of got it already that was what I had as number three you could just work on like a pure concentration I think that's a little harder those pure mindfulness practices because there's nothing supporting the mind there's no technique say say a little bit more to that Eric if you're just like in the thing where I'm just going to sit and like observe my mind and your mind is like an unpleasant place in the moment that's kind of harder yeah much harder you can do it and a lot of mindfulness stuff is actually kind of like that it's interesting that those are the popular ones in our culture maybe it's because they're torturous I don't know culture has a fetish with like painful torturous things so it's not maybe surprising to me that the painful torturous you know martyring painful meditation is the one that people are into but you know it's kind of hard to do people do it I their styles of Zen that are like that too yeah you know uh but they're hard in the sense that you know there's there's there's not the technical aspect being used and so maybe in the like the vajana some of the other things that we're talking about some of the yogic things that you were mentioning earlier some of the Dos things they have more technique to try to help you work with this well I don't know I'm not I'm not trying to say when it's good or bad but I think it is harder in the midst when something painful is happening well the the other part though Eric is that yes there's there's technique in some of them but you know I I would be remiss if and and I would be doing my teacher Andrea disservice if I didn't mention the pleasure aspect and what you're saying is true and that many of these techniques many of these practices they are using difficulty you know to to deal with one's own mind which is already difficult to deal with versus a tantric practice which takes that and spin it spins it on its head and uses pleasure to try and motivate the person to continue to go forth because you'll you'll continue to chase things that are feeling good versus constantly dealing with feel working with things that make you have difficulty frust so on and so forth you know what I'm saying and it's not it's not an Escapist route but it's a motivational route because it's still difficult even when it's pleasureful do you know what I'm saying and so I just I have a hard time when I'm getting hype because I'm even like sitting up and down in the chair because it's such an important subject yeah no I mean this is we we got really deep really fast and we're gonna have to finish a little early today so we'll continue next time but this is a really deep point that that you know Andre makes we're not g to finish this one this week I think we'll have some more on it yeah but 100% yeah this is a deep point that Andre makes is that when you're sitting and and doing meditation it the the results should make you want to come back you know what I'm saying you should be doing things that maybe you're not like enjoying in the moment but there should be pleasure with them in some way as a motivation to get you to return and then when you can when you feel motivated to return your practice deepens you practice longer your life Alters around this thing because it has a greater stake into your life so it's like why would I swallow a poison pill when I could have chocolate you know almost like llama yes is like exact words like use the chocolate as a way of like kind of training the mind oh like give you this bitter horrible tasting thing I could give you some chocolate your mind will be more into you know which is Bittersweet my favorite flavor it's interesting like when you like okay so let me like then there's a lot of like places to go with it let me bounce a little bit to the sexuality aspect of that too not sexuality in sense of even like a partnered practice though we can talk about that more maybe over the course of the year and we're probably overdue to do it for sure yeah but more the idea of like there's lots of these meditations that use Sexual Energy feelings that you can access within your own system for yourself you know just meditatively tapping into those parts of your own nature and being through your own mind right and uh the point of that which I think the way I've always seen it and I think you were you were get we're getting to the same place with this or a similar place would be like part of the point of that is the root of your mind is not a torturous Place yeah the root of your mind is actually a blissful place and then that's the trick oroo on this right you can get situations where this is unpleasant this is unpleasant this is unpleasant and then it'll explode into Bliss I've definitely have had those experiences meditatively it happens and in those moments you realize like okay you could say well some endorphins kicked in or something you know something kicked in but the subjective experience really especially if it's physical pain right like do St but when you really kind of look at it what you really can feel is no that's more to the core of who I am sure and then then you're getting to being like a tantrica you know or then you're being more like the parts of the dosm things or whatever uh that tap into the feelings of bliss right but the feeling of bliss is being the nature of reality the nature of reality of who you are and the nature of reality of what's going on around you is bliss now I did that like an empowerment with llama Glenn over the weekend one of our favorite people Glenn H Mullen llama Glenn and you know he goes back to this point too which is probably why I love him so much as a teacher but you know if you turn back to the energy of the world around you underneath the surface right not not The Superficial things because again Lama Glenn is saying there's going to be bad experiences there might even be kind of like bad people who are hurtful or mean or something right it's going to happen right so um but that's not the point the point is that you try to turn it back almost on like more like you might say like a ground of being or some fancy phrase like that the pure nature of reality at its core outside of this person was mean to me and you know this part of life is really difficult outside of those things the the feeling of like reality around you is like Blissful and that's what you're trying to tap into on some level right and that's a pretty good cure for getting your heartbroken or having a disappointment in some other part of life or whatever that's a decent cure you know what I mean to experience everything through that way so you know that's a different kind of returning too it's also probably like where you get things in if we me you mentioned roomie earlier to me the always sounds like that's where he's getting to God or Allah right that's Bliss you know it's not like a a mean bearded saturnian figure that wants to like make you do a bunch of really difficult things that might not even make any sense uh but more like the idea of like you're tapping into something that's more like the ground of being fancy phrase I think if you're being philosophical you might say like ontology fancy phrase but like just the feeling of like the world around you the energy of the world around you is like a sea of bliss and our beloved Bobby T talks this way too right he says like you know if you can tap into that and he admits it's like for himself too it's not always easy right but in the moment that's what you're trying to do and then that's where the kind of the sexuality things kind of like kick in too because these sexual meditations at least as far as my experience of it would be something like you're going through again outside even like a partner practice but you're going through and you're tapping into those energies within your own body and they have ways of visualizing stuff to do that right and some of it's like really simple like you just meditate on your own ovaries if you happen to be born in the female form in this life for a signed female at Birth for all our trans uh folks out there too and um you know you tap into those and then you can get feelings of bliss right just out of that part of your physical body right and those were the first experiences for me not in my ovaries because I've not in that form in this life but you can just even meditate just on like your balls and you could feel the energy there like how you lean in your balls that's good I is like okay we're g to go for it yeah uh so you know and then you feel that energy and you can almost like circulate it through there's do techniques for doing this we'll probably talk about these meditations over the course of the year you can actually bring those those feelings of bliss and almost like pull it up your spinal cord right feel it like go through your nervous system feel like it hit your brain right and it's really super Blissful right as Blissful is probably most most of the orgasms that any of us ever going to have in our lives right yeah Daniel like was talking at one time doing one of these treats and there was a number of women there that you think you were talking to and they were like well this is better than sex most of the time I mean the times that I've done these kinds of Retreats the uh sounds of ecstasy go on for hours and I'm not that's not factious this is deeply deeply honest and real hours they go on the the the moaning and the Ecstasy goes on for hours and one woman said she goes yeah I have sex with my husband because he likes it and I want him to you know I I still want to connect with him in that way and so you know she's like but I don't really need it you know well I think even with this person I was talking about you know where I'm getting my heart kind of torn around a little bit I was trying to explain something about like what it means to like have this kind of experience which makes you a little bit more demisexual as we were talking about with uh fedra you want to get the emotional connection or saposexual you like the intellectual connection right so you feel more of those feelings that's what you want from people yeah the of just like getting getting off or something like that you know you don't need it in the same way because you can generate your own Bliss internally that's fun to share that with a partner of course that's a sharing activity then right sexuality is then about more sharing where than like well I need this person to give me an orgasm or something like that because feel the same way we can talk about more about that stuff too I was trying to explain to her like I know this seems weird to say but like my being close with you this demisexual seposexual thing outside of anything that has to be like physical right you because we wen't sexual partners like me being close to you feels as good as sex to me because I want to be close to you so that's just we've all had the experience too me just talking to you getting close to you knowing you is as good as having sex with someone I don't care about right who does that song I Wanna Get Next To You is that the isy brothers maybe you're going to Old R&B I don't had that deep cut yeah yeah but I mean like so you know that's like that's a kind of a bliss too which I think is what I was trying to reference when you get to the alchemical things so the room and the Shams right that you can use that connection to a person as a thing but now you know we're in the Heartbreak stage so it's a little bit different but you know to get into that that feeling of that you know that was a major thing for me and the Zen school I studying and wasn't sharing that they weren't focused on that but I discovered that like through dawis stuff and I was like well screw it I'm not going to suffer through this [...] Retreat I'm gonna like do some meditations to generate some Bliss so I'm not sitting here in a bunch of [...] pain but it's a powerful thing to learn how to do right and then you're like kind of tapping into this part that's much more Blissful right yeah yeah yeah you know there's two two things I know we got we're we're finishing up for our time here for today um this was kind of interesting it went in the direction that I don't think I was thinking about this ahead of time because I was writing these notes up but we hadn't talked too much ahead of time so this is kind of a fun one because I don't think you respect and let's go deep dive into these meditation techniques I didn't you know we didn't talk about that we didn't talk about that all yeah no that's um so I had mentioned you know at the beginning of the episode that like or when you were talking about using the technique of the spinning of the swords or you know cutting of the streams of thoughts that like that that sort of whirling technique that the drawing in of the raise of your attention will eventually you know I don't know uh not solidify but streamline streamline your rays of attention and then they will once they kind once there's enough movement then it'll turn back into your it'll turn back in on yourself moving towards the the the actual source of attention in this case and this is much like what you're talking about like this the returning of the the bird back to the boat or however you want to look at it and I say that and I will reference our episode with Rory hiltbrand um I think episode's called running towards mystery or something like this he'll come back on because he's a really really smart dude good guy anyways he brought up in the episode that he used some R&B music when he was in the car with a friend of his who had just recently broken up with somebody and so he used the kind of metal element of singing to kind of move their anger and fr frustration into like sadness you know and then once they hit that sadness that like the yin and the yang right of like fire and water or in this case yeah fire and water or we'll say like you know Sadness the opposite of that is Joy right so love songs are often sad because those two things work they're they're on the opposite side but of the same same coin or of the same pole you they're dipoles of the same stick and so using some technique with repetition enough even if it's through discomfort will eventually get you like you said to the deeper layers of yourself which are inherently Blissful actually yeah that's the part that's the trick and I think when I was talking about the sword you went even in kind of an interesting way with it that wasn't I was thinking when I first wrote the note down but you were talking about like literally meditating whirling right yeah spinning y as opposed to a visualization of just seeing yourself like in your mind the thoughts are coming at you in the sword person and you're cutting you went to more like a whirling thing Robert Thurman talks about this too Bobby T in this thing of like the whirling but sometimes and there there are some other ones I do every day that involve this kind of whirling thing but eventually what might happen is you whirl that eventually might just start to fade out into like what they'll call clear light Bliss mind where your mind will start to go the the whirling will disappear all that stuff will disappear and you'll just see clear light and if you can confuse that clear light with a kind of a that Blissful feeling that's kind of the T seexual feeling right you kind of fuse those two things together well then that's a powerful experience because that's kind of the core of who you are yeah right and then from a certain like Buddhist philosophical point of view also the core of reality right you're in the giant sea of this energy it just happens to look like the mundane stuff you're seeing around you right to you through your eyes but if you see it different point of view you could see that everything is just Divine Blissful energy and that's Curative for a lot of stuff right yeah totally that's good for a bad mood you know that's good yeah those are those are that's recommendations for a good life yeah yeah yeah so like you know I'm like I'm purposely trying to go like okay I have to get my mind into that head space yeah right I guess we better call it we got more to talk about with it let's do a short episode next time and we'll kind of just do a little bit more on it right because there's some little more cool stuff to say right yeah totally yeah yeah okay this is this is you know for for the people who listen to this and to to to who hear this there's more there's definitely more and so this episode will be posted and um you know we always ask for feedback from people not feedback but like you know input into what you want to hear about and and we would totally love to open this topic up more even do something live perhaps and get people's live questions um I think that might be fun because this really should be done uh in in a in a live setting where there's people who can ask questions as they're hearing it as they're thinking about it and this changes people man this is these are techniques for like you know dealing with life and everything else but these are techniques to change your software I know Eric doesn't love the hardware software dualistic no you're into it it's grown on me don't think about this one I got I gotta bounce in like a second so let you do your outro but the only thing about it is that um I wanted to talk about it now in this personal way because we want do this on this podcast to say hey this shit's real you know for all of us yeah and also like to go like okay I'm in the midst of this like right now so here's what I have to do like in the moment at least we can talk honest about it right and I can share like like being like right now right yeah totally and then you know uh for your and then then it's like then it's real yeah it's real right it's real it's live really real it's not just like blah blah blah right it's real yeah no no for sure I'll tell you I'm going through it right now it's real so I got to do this stuff now yeah yeah yeah yeah well Eric as always thank you for uh for being on the Venture with me uh thank you audience for listening or tuning in or however you catch us if you're on the YouTube you know like comment subscribe it costs you nothing it helps us in the algorithm we definitely appreciate it you know if you feel um called to share our work with uh anyone and everyone who might even have a smartphone which is probably most people above the age of four at this point you know the the full INF infiltration into your mind is is is happening uh if you're on the Instagram you know give us a shout out if you're on some other platform that I'm unaware of you know whatever say what's up there too you could email us at Jin and Tantra gmail.com and we'll catch you guys in the next one for Eric this is Daniel we'll see you peace