[Music] hey fellow and teers those of us who like our spirituality with a Twist so we're uh uh back kind of we're doing a thing on Yung and Daniel had this uh inside idea of talking about more like the kinds of spiritual practices Yung was doing and that got us to talk about really two things that you kind of emphasize with you when is this idea of um uh this inner journeying we were talking about right and they gave us a chance to talk a couple different things if you've been paying attention with these episodes we've been kind of trying to go through this and give a feeling and a flavor for this and the other side was this idea of this thing called the Transcendent function which we really haven't had a chance to talk about too much yet and this will be the time I think to do it they fit together so I think on the inner Journey thing you go inside you find your own inner archetype world then we explored the fact that this leads to kind of like synchronicity where the archetype will appear internally and externally which is a great conversation fascinating and then uh the other part is really this transc Transcendent function and now guess back to talking about our old friend job who we've been out of touch with for a little bit we missed you job and all of your suffering we will return back to job because Yung uh talks about this in answer to job so that'll be kind of our idea um all right what do you uh what do you think Daniel uh did you uh what part of this is you like so far you know it's it's interesting we got some uh feedback from that episode because it's already it's already posted and somebody said they had a a dream and then a reflection of that dream in their life the day before they listened to the episode so they were like it it and then the episode was kind of like an external reminder of them again that this this stuff is real you know so it was a nice it was a nice piece of information from somebody who was uh listening so you know to reminded for us too you know what I'm saying I've hit it with a little bit more people in my life where there's been a lot of little synchronistic things and that's been that's kind of cool to see you talk about synchronicity and then it starts to happen you realize you're probably on the right track of things right yeah I was going to ask what do you when when you have that kind of synchronistic stuff happening in your life and sometimes it's also a little like nefarious too where you're like oh [...] that's ominous you know God you know but like generally speaking do you feel like that's I don't want to be binary about it but you know how do you feel about it I'll put it this way I mean I definitely have had the yungi experience where I feel like that means that there's a particularly deep bond between me and this person like that seems like real to me and I take that pretty seriously and then sometimes I have the feeling like maybe something that's being said here has more meaning for this other person or something and you don't want to be the guy going hey look it I'm point out the synchronicity and I'll tell you what I'm saying is so important to you yeah yeah you don't want to be that one yeah um but it did happen even during the week where I was talking with a friend and um we were I brought up like nche because my daughter's writing this thesis on N it's been kind of floating around and he said I just had a dream last night where I was sitting down with this woman who's a professor of n in the dream and I was like synchronicity there you go right and uh I think Jung's point is like sometimes when you're in a particular mindset maybe when your emotions are kind of heightened or maybe important things are happening in your life maybe you get synchronicity even with like other people too I think that's fair to say you know so that was my feeling about that and I did kind of point it out to the person and I was like Hey that seems like a synchronistic thing now was also like that seems like maybe an anima thing yeah that the figure he was seeing because we're gonna talk about wisdom goddesses today a little bit seem like a little wisdom goddessy yeah you know it's funny with the wisdom goddess thing I should point out that we're recording on the day of not only the the day of the month that the sort of wisdom Buddhist goddess day on the monthly calendar in the sort of tdri Buddhist calendar but also this is like wisdom goddess yearly day or at least wisdom day mandry day kind of yeah and we both have a love of mandry isn't bodis Safa sort of represents wisdom right yeah is is today uh like llamas sonapa represent you know yeah yeah is there a name for that day like light festival or something like that yeah like they were kind of doing it through Dr hard's festival of light but I don't if I've heard it always described that way yeah I don't know yeah but there's like it's a it's um yeah it's a day recognizing him but the way I always think about it it's a connection also between him and MRA sh yeah and maybe say he's sort of like an em emanation of wisdom or something and maybe I know it's a little bit of a side maybe you want to give just open the door a little bit on on lamaas sanapa again and then we could do MRA second just because we're talking about it you know oh okay yeah Lama andapa is the founder of the school of the Dal Lamas and uh it's a kind of like he does have stuff that's related back to this Yung stuff we can probably pull this all together yeah because one of the things that happened with him was that he couldn't make direct contact to MRI which is a funny thing to say in a story about a spiritual figure usually you make them all badass and they could do everything you know but it sounds more realistic somehow that he couldn't do it and then he met some Monk who was just I know he wasn't like a great scholar or anything this other monk but the monk just could talk to mry he just had the ability so he could do the channeling or the journeying to like tap into mry and sanapa couldn't so sanapa would ask this other Monk and that monk would talk to mestry and then he would give back the answer which makes it seem like something like that is more real or something you know sometimes they bring it up in like religious studies and things where if the character is doing something that seems like it shows a limitation that must be more real you know sure people say that like that's the reason you could maybe think historically Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist because why would you say that otherwise right it makes Jesus look like a lesser figure or something sure so that might be a little bit more of a factual part about that or something I that's what John that's what John was good at anyways it's literally his name you know yeah yeah it'd be weird to go yeah if you got the name you probably have to get into that job that's it I mean that's all you know yeah pretty weird I'm the Baptist do you baptize people no no I'm the I'm the Tom florist no I make horseshoes for donkeys you know you're not John the horseshoer okay yeah um and I you love mandri so you want to like do the mandri thing yeah mandri as a as an as an emanation of wisdom you know pictographically represented usually as like a younger kind of a younger man probably in his like teenage years and it and I think if I'm if I'm being correct in this they reference that in that like most of the time you associate wisdom with age but that this kind of wisdom maybe is timeless or you know some I I don't know how how would you say that's right I mean I I don't know yeah I think there's something to that yeah yeah I think there's something to that yeah because normally you think of a old wise Sage you know long beard or long hair if it's female or you know like sitting in a cave forever but like this emanation of or realization of wisdom it comes at a very a young point in this person's life or they had the Vitality of a young person through the experience of wisdom or something like that yeah there's a vitalizing quality to it something like that yeah yeah and so as as a as a representation or an emanation of wisdom one can you know connect to this being and glean you know being the W practice of wisdom for their you know as part of their meditative spiritual kind of practice I was like the sword part of it because I maybe have a little bit of thing about swords I think swords are cool we should say Okay so a sword right pictographically the it's looks like a younger man you know a younger man in his late teens um holding a book in one hand and then like a for those who are on the video he has a book in one hand under underhanded like this and then in his other hand is like this flaming sword above his head and it's it's the the the imagery is cool you know because like it's it's yeah swords are cool and it's less intimidating than some of the other more wrathful emanations you know doesn't have like you know seven eyeballs and like a 100 arms and you could just see this guy you know he's got a sword he's kind of cool but it's on fire and and it's cool because like the the Flames represent like the light of Enlightenment or like you know breaking through the darkness Illuminating the darkness and the sword is representative of like cutting of attachments and and things like this you know probably like delusions and things too right wrong ideas yeah yeah and it's just it's it's a easy for me anyways it's an easy thing to to visualize and it was one of the ones that came to me right away when I as soon as I started doing this kind of Buddhist stuff with Eric um was it 2015 I think in January of 2015 was when that probably would have been the time frame yeah yeah yep and that was you know sort of like an amazing kind of I guess I could just tell the story for a minute you know I went like many people in the audience don't have much familiarity maybe outside of us some but if not you know because of us some familiarity with like Tantra or you know Tibetan Buddhism to some extent that we talk about it I mean I I I had I read some books to beton book of living and dying to beton Book of the Dead you know I know who the dolly Lama was I get it right Buddha is a guy big belly you know meditation whatever but I had a meditation practice and whatever and Eric you know we would talk and he would say oh yeah you know you see like a mandri kind of a guy you know that just you know you seem like that kind of and so okay so he's like after a couple years he's like why don't you come with me to um this place in in an Arbor Michigan juwel Hart and they have a couple centers I think in New York and maybe somewhere else yeah I mean a bunch of them actually and there's ones in Europe too I mean there's a big one in Holland okay I I might be selling the short I don't know if I know where all the centers are maybe I should know I don't know well there's one here in Chicago too but the one the one in an arbor had you know that's kind of like that's the mothership kind of yeah that's kind of the mother ship the one in Holland is kind of a hopper too but I've never been out there to be honest yeah I I didn't even know it existed so Eric wanted me to meet his teacher who he had been working with for the last I don't know 15 18 years I don't know how long you were working with a little bit less than that but like uh had a big impact on me and I mean it's interesting how you make these choices it seemed at the time and again you'll have your own take on it it seemed to me like you had part of your practices were were set up but then there was another little space for something else that seemed like it could fit nicely yeah and you were like okay I'm looking for some other thing to fit yep and it was like okay well maybe try this and see what you think and so I it was that little Gap in there right because you had a lot of your shamanistic things were already set for yourself those were crws in the long yeah but sometimes you have that feeling like there's some other piece that could fit into this other place yeah you know something like a guess Enlightenment tradition kind of stuff right yeah yeah and so we went so there was a we know weekend initiation or empowerment that was being offered and uh and I went with Eric and you know it was a long weekend and in the middle of and now for people again who if you've never done this before these empowerments are they're rituals they're their days their hours slash dayong ritual none of it is in English really uh and they're they're doing these things they're blessing this water this wine this stuff they're coming around they're giving you this you're doing that you're saying things you're putting stuff over your eyes you know it's it's a ritual it's an unbroken tradition for I I don't know Thousand Years thousands probably maybe right it's a long so you do this thing and and you try your best to be engaged with it but when you have no frame of once you've done it once then you understand you're like oh I I see where we're at but you've never done it before it's new and it gives you an opportunity to be totally without grasping because you have no idea what's coming you're just sort of here like oh what's next what's next and in the middle of this thing happening again it's hours long in the middle of it I don't know if I fell asleep or I was just in a deeply meditative State probably both I saw this little Golden man holding a book that was in the in the center of the chest of a much larger man for all that I could say and I didn't think anything of it other than this this little guy was really like very radiant made of all gold and um and so that was it I sat there and I just looked at we just looked at each other for a long period of time that was it then the the day was over and Eric and I went to go get some food and and go back to our our you know wherever we were staying and I said hey Eric I saw this little man inside of this big man and you know and I again I have no idea what it is and Eric goes oh yeah that's MRI you know and we did the empowerment for yamantaka which is you know associated with MRI and he's like and MRI we did that today so the fact that you saw that without having any frame of reference any lead in whatsoever that's fortuitous you know thats as they say officious there you go and from that point forward um that's that's that he's in you know he's close to me stuff like that will happen in these things too yeah and it's it does fit back into young because you go on the little Vision Quest and [...] will appear right it's very hard to say like is that inside outside what is that exactly you know what I mean is it an archetype is it like a force from the outside appearing on the like what is those you know there's somewhere in between all of this it really kind of shakes your idea of what constitutes inside and outside probably right yeah yeah yeah all right so uh this is yearly manduri day and monthly wisdom goddess day and we're going to be talking about the wisdom goddesses so uh seems auspicious as they would say right yeah yeah um all right so you want to talk a little bit about Book of Job right all right so how's this connect I guess it's going to be like we'll double back and we'll talk a little bit about this book of Job thing and it should cut back to the trans Transcendent function fingers crossed so all right so Yung has this thing about uh talking about the biblical John figure the John that's associated with the fourth gospel and so he says it's like no accident this is getting into Yung world again right you have to put on a special a special pair of like yungan glasses to get where this dude is going because Yung goes shocking and surprising ways as we've been talking about so he says okay there's this book of uh this gospel of John it's the one that starts off where they're talking about you know Jesus was the word who was there the whole time you know with God at the beginning and all this and he says the thing about this whole this whole part is that John uh is the person associated with that book but he's also the one who's associated with the book of like Revelation and all the apocalyptic stuff and he says that's no accident that these two things were correlate together and then he makes the Yung move he says basically to understand why this figure is associated with this very lydy book the fourth gospel and also with the Book of Revelation you got to understand something about Christian ethics so we're gonna get back to like a Yi intake on on the world and the Yi inake on I guess the society again so this is where this is going to go and he basically says Christian ethics don't work they don't work at all especially in the sense that they don't work to produce happiness now he says that that's not their intention they're not supposed to produce happiness and the Book of Job is kind of about this so they're not there to make you happy and job isn't happy you know so it's not a kind of thing that's going to work to make your life um successful happy or whatever I guess that goes over get goes against the idea of like the Prosperity Gospel idea you know so it's not like is it Joel Olin is that the guy's name yeah Joel Olstein Olstein whatever yeah the whole idea that you do all these things and then God will reward you or something he says that's not the intention at all obviously and in a certain sense they're just not going to work and then he continues on in his yungan way and he says they're designed to produce these polarities that are essentially impossible and insolvable so the way Christian ethics works and again he says it's not really their fault because they're not supposed to produce happiness that's not their goal and he seems to talk a couple ways about this sometimes he seems to say that it gives you the idea of of experiencing the full range of the Divine which includes all possibilities or something so you're going to get Pleasant experiences nasty experiences and dilemmas that aren't solvable and so on and then but it also seems like it's a lot about maybe the judeo-christian God is kind of split inside and so you feel the polarity inside of this judeo-christian God that's been created and it's kind of internally split up and therefore you feel this split but in any case he says what will happen in a Judean Christian culture setting is that you'll just get impossible slits splits that are impossible to reconcile at all and that's his idea so it's it's not supposed to make anybody happy it's supposed to make you splintered now whether that's a good or a bad thing you know maybe it could be the experience the feeling the polarities of life and maybe that could be good but he also talks about it with the idea like it's just going to take it's just going to create a bunch of black and white splits that it's going to be very very hard to solve and it's probably a reflection of a split culture that has invented a split deity let me throw it back to you Daniel and see what you think how are you with him so far yeah I mean I think that I mean he's talking about Duality but not coming at it from an Eastern philosophical perspective which is usually where I think people approach those ideas from right he's using a very palatable reference for the culture to accept as something that they're you know that they're familiar with right because I think if you can introduce an idea that someone could say oh I could I could see your your where idea is coming from but if you give them something that that smells more familiar to them then inherently their experience may lead them to other conclusions that you might be trying to get them to go towards so that's how this hits me that he's doing it this way in order to touch that that polarity perspective but not from again any East Asian tradition because I think some people just because they don't have any kind of frame of reference for those teachings or where they're coming from or whatever it seems foreign even if the concepts are good or you know important you might brush it off as that's that's too far away from my my comfort zone you know what I'm saying well it's weird because like he is a cultural critic so he's being a cultural critic but he's doing it in kind of this Sly way where he's using this opportunity to talk about this book of job and he's kind of like it's get it's a weird book because he kind of moves around and you have to kind of like try to figure out where is he going with this and ultimately he's he's being critical and he's basically saying that there's a very kind of strong kind of judeo-christian thing to see things in mutually exclusive clarities in black and white thinking now he actually knows DST stuff yinyang theory he knows these things and I think in a way he's saying that I probably he's thinking that those as cultures don't have as much of that problem because they don't have this polarity thinking but his critique is that in Western thinking it's all good all bad all this all that so that's what he's trying to get to here yeah and it creates these Inc incredible dilemmas and and he's arguing psychologically that there's like like there's no way out of them they're just splintered and you know um in a certain sense it's a question of like what does it mean and I think on some level I think he means it's posy withd which is the purpose of a system is what it does and he's basically saying yeah it like it polarizes people inside of themselves into things that are like insolvable because you can never be all good enough to you know to be good enough and so and it'll be very binary and so it's it's interesting I mean that's the point he's making when you get down to the end of it it's like really this idea of like all good all bad and it's psychologically D like damaging and life is framed in these kind of like insolvable opposites that are very very hard to reconcile does he have a reason for why I mean does he ever get to that kind of conclusion as to why he believes that that is the case or why this is a prevalent thing he seems to talk in a couple ways he says one way when he's being more positive he seems to say something like it gives you the chance to feel the polarity and then probably ultimately he's going to give this idea of the Transcendent function and the idea that you'll learn to transcend because he does see this need for the union of these opposites otherwise you're a torn acart person right but since the culture is so binary and it's it's internally divided and it thinks In This Very All or Nothing way then you sort of get [...] up by it I think he says he's trying to point out for whatever reason this happened and I don't know if he I don't know Danel if he gives a historical reason behind it exactly but something happened where this culture developed that's like that and I think in his mind it created a God that's like this it's split inside and that's how it is anyways yeah they're of course you know they're gonna argue with you and say they the culture didn't create God right yeah but that mean that's his point I was I was thinking even now right like what's a very common statement that people say it's all good yeah you know what I'm saying and I know it's it's a it's a euphemism that that maybe people have said today right like don't worry about it it's all good yeah even in that like you're it's it's a polar it's a polar statement polarized statement you know what I'm saying like yeah right like and there's I think there's just so many things that that probably I mean we all do that we don't even understand the the depths of where something comes from you know and we we use it without we borrow it without much mindfulness really or the idea like it has an implication that you're not seeing the full impact of or something sure yeah like the rule of thumb something like this you know I thought about it like in astrology because you would know these kinds of things and we haven't done episodes on astrology per se it's like in the docket of things to talk about it some you know we're both have interests in this um but like a lot of times it's framed in these opposites where they're like polarized things you know so you know you have the the astrology wheel in front and one side has to do with individuality and one side has to do with coupledom and they're opposites you know and they're framed in these oppositional ways or it's work in family opposites right or materiality and spirituality opposites so he kind of says there's something that happened in the culture that it's split in this way and then he thinks that that mirrors what happened in the image of the Divine which is all split up inside you know so you know as we were talking about in previous episodes his idea of the judeo-christian Goddess it's like internally kind of like polarized inside of itself and some parts are conscious and unconscious there's a split so he's like he's fascinated with this idea that things are like split up inside probably of the culture and also probably of the Divinity that it envisions or something right I think with the attitude that it'll be like the culture creates its Divinity whether there's a Divinity or not that's a different issue you know and he he makes a big point at the end of of the answer the job that he's not an atheistic person he's not talking from that framework he's more saying like Okay for whatever reason this vision of the Divinity came out this way something more like that so it's like framed in these irreconcilable opposite kind of polarities and so Yung saw the need that like you can't get you can't get polarized into these opposites because they split your personality apart and that's his idea of the Transcendent function that somehow you have to be able to like approach these what seem like oppositions and transcend them the example that's given a little bit around this for him was he like was trying to figure out what his career choice should be when he was young and people say that this was one of his first insights into this or something where on the one hand there was a part part of him that was drawn to like philosophy and spirituality and religion and things like that came from religious family and on the other side there was a part of him that was kind of more sciency and you know interested in Nature and Science and he felt this this polarity in himself and he wasn't sure what to do and in his uh you know the autobiography the memories dreams Reflections thing that we've referenced here sometimes when we've been talking about him he talks about almost like two sides of his personality and he doesn't know what to do with it there's kind of the more private part of who he is which is more spiritual part and then there's the outside part of him which is sort of more the sciency part and he's completely torn up and he doesn't know how to reconcile it at all and then his idea that he you know as a teenager he starts thinking about this and I think he kind of even started maybe an early version of his self-reflection and and journeying thing even then you know going inside himself and then suddenly there was this Insight that he had like why should go and do like a psychiatry I'll be a doctor and a psychiatrist because that will integrate the two parts of me and I'll pull this together somehow so they don't say perpetually splintered and that's his concern so somehow you have to get into this Transcendent function I think part of the idea is that when you do the journeying you'll probably get insights as how to escape these polarities you know that people are so torn up by and internally divided inside themselves right which is a reflection of the outside culture and the outside God and it's more of a general function than them like learning how to either I guess it's either transcend or unify opposite something like that you know it's one of those two words I don't know which even is the better one because sometimes it sounds like transcending yeah sometimes it sounds like unifying but I think like he he played with this it seems like almost his whole life and he wrote commentaries on Chinese books of Chinese Alchemy like yinyang kind of stuff uh you know Western Alchemy things too where they're trying to like unite opposites and that whole idea of this so this seems to be what he's trying to get to in this Transcendent function idea otherwise people's lives will be split and you know that's that's the idea and I you know I I think about him a lot with the the way that he was also working with patients he was a clinician too so it seemed like he saw it in his own life but I think he saw it in patients lives that patients lives would just get split and like polarized so and they weren't able to bring together these splintered Parts yeah if his assertion which I find to be a very interesting one that the culture creates its Divinity or at least its personification of its Divinity and that this Divinity is split as BEC as the culture is split within itself then the individual is responsible for his or her own we'll say Transcendence or unification or however you want to call it enlightenment same thing how do does he I mean because I'm not familiar with this does he also reference the enlightenment of the personification of divinity that the culture has well we haven't done uh JC yet we haven't done Jesus okay which becomes kind of like so that's probably like the next episode and I want to make sure I present it good okay so I want to do him Justice with that but like as a general idea he also sees that the culture is striving for some version of unity so it's kind of like it there's some kind of probably unconscious thing happening where there's a realization like this has to unify somehow this is too splintered and maybe even in the way he seems to talk about it like why is Jesus part Divine and part human because you're unifying that split you know got it so Jesus becomes kind of a symbol of like where the thing would be going you know right okay okay but he seems to see this splitting you know like yeah human divine is a split yeah and it's absolute and then Jesus kind of unifies it or something or he has a thing about obviously the split between Sophia and is the feminine side of the Divine and you know the Yahweh figure as the masculine and they're split and the female side is repressed well that's a split and that split has to be reconciled or something you know but I think the idea is that it's like trickling down into all the lives of the individual people involved and I don't know I guess if you're listening you can think about this in your own life do you feel split between work and family because that's a split that's a split and the C culture has it and like if you look at Young's life there's a split between like am I gonna be an independent indidual person or individual person or am I gonna be in relationships that's a split there's and he has a split of even how he's going to handle it am I going to be like just with this one person or am I going to include another person that I love can I love more than one person or is that a split yeah so he's constantly addressing in his life these kind of Divisions that the culture has that are very sharp there's also a split between people and what they do for for like a jobcareer and then what they do for themselves I was having a conversation with uh one of my patients today and and he's kind of coming into his own practice you know he's really you know starting to read some Zen books he's starting to really kind of have some introspections he said something very insightful today he said I'm I'm becoming more aware of myself my my mind's actions and reactions he goes but it's almost as if I am now aware that I was always aware of it never did anything about it he's like so there's kind of like a hyper awareness now as if this was always happening the awareness of the awareness or something like that right yeah yeah yeah which still say like it's a meta awareness and we were kind of talking about like how it is that he can tap into that sort of creative side of himself that probably most people don't have time for or I'll put it this way don't make time for everybody has time for it you have to make time for it and I think for me this is one of the big splits which you know eventually when we you know get our book out will be something that I I'm going to take on on the in the work chapter you said he want to talk a lot about creativity too right yeah for sure because to me though work and creativity if you can find a way to marry those things together makes your life so much more meaningful like the minute you can do that you it just drives it it's the S it's the wind and the sail you know really truly is and I know that like for some people their creativity is different they learn to be creative via a working process and that's how they do their thing or they're more of a community person and so they're going to meet clients and schmoo and make sales and that's their creativity you know overcoming problems but however you do it I think you do have to like take a look at it and say okay there is a divide within me and that it's the drive to help my family pay my bills whatever that drive is because we all have that to live but then also there's some part of me that is like a grown child that wants to play or create or enjoy without the pressure of having Tod do and if you could find a way to because we spend the bulk of our time working so if you could find a way to get those two things to at least even hold hands let alone Be unified I just feel like it it takes a lot of the pressure a lot of the stress off of people's lives you know so I I like I like this kind of conversation is bringing it to the Forefront of people's minds that like there's an internal split multiple internal splits within them and this is the one that I I find to be you know for me what I see bring up like the young playfulness thing because I think part of what he started doing at some point was like building like little like castles out of like rocks and like he started playing and he was like and he talks about it he said it was a little bit embarrassing because he was like you know doing these very childlike activities he's like a sand he's like in a sandbox in his backyard or something like that I mean something like that I mean the equivalent of that and I'm forgetting the details because I did all this research for this stuff but he was doing a lot of that kind of stuff and he was like well I'm a grown person I'm treating patients but I'm also making time to do these little childhood building projects you know and he was like a little embarrassing you know but you know I'm making a little city or doing whatever you know in the sand or with the twigs and you know details of it but it was it was play essentially he bought a Star Wars Lego kit now he's putting it together the Death Star you know yeah yeah yeah uh Lando caresan and like the little figures right Harrison Ford uh whatever you know Han Solo all of them yeah um yeah so there's something about that but so his critique then gets to the end of like this this polarizing thing that it's a very polarizing thing and it's very polarizing in terms of its assessments of of good and bad and assessments of like this is the light side and this is the dark side yeah and the dark side is bad you know uh Star Wars I guess but the dark side really is bad in Star Wars you can't get away from that you know yeah you can't say like the the emperor has like a good Silver Lining no he's an it does it does seem to be more attractive they are they're you know they're doing stuff you know what I mean it was the old movie like something like uh bad will always trium over good because good is stupid or something there some Mel Brooks movie they're doing a Star Wars spoof and they use that in it space space balls space balls I think yeah all right well that's in any case um so this is his concern and then he kind of takes a little twists in this because he says the trouble with the Gospel of John is it's presenting this image that's like all good it has to be all good and it's framed everything in terms of these are the things that are good and these are the things that are bad and it's very like internally split and he takes a little funny twisting it because he talks about like celibate orders and you know uh people repressing all these expressions of like passion and sexuality and pleasure and he says this is basically part of this split too that somehow the culture got into this place where it decided this is all good and other things are not good and all that stuff is going to get kind of repressed so this is his theory and then he says these repr s those things those those desires and those feelings don't go away and instead there's a loss of like the ability to feel as much happiness it ends up being an unhappy culture right and then there's all kinds of repressed feelings and then this leads to a lot of bitterness and he's read n and nich's been kind of hanging around a little bit because uh my daughter's doing a paper on n and like talking about him but you know young read him and this is one of nich's things he says basically if you have a a belief system that says this is all good and this is all bad and here's the good things that you have to do and there's all the bad things and it's too it's too divisive it's too split and it doesn't allow enough space then you get this bitterness and resentment inside that will start to build up in people and it's not healthy but they're doing it to try to be good but it doesn't produce the good it's funny in our own little field of Chinese medicine Jeffrey w will sometimes drop this out he's a doist priest and Chinese medical doctor and he'll say this about yinyang Theory when you push something too far to one side it starts to turn to its opposite and Yung would probably feel something like that too if you try to push this let's be good good good good good and you define that good too narrowly or too restrictively or too repressively it starts to go ugly and people start to get bitter the weird Chinese medical stuff for this is he says at one point and the the outcome of this is very easy to see because there's an increase in irritability and anger and bitterness and frustration and you're like any Chinese medical person listening to him would go like oh yeah that's exactly the wood phase in Chinese medicine and it produces all these feelings of like anger and frustration when it gets repressed yeah and the person's really trying hard to be good but instead it just creates a lot of internal bitterness because the because the definition of what constitutes the good is too narrow and it ends up being again repressive it's interesting I mean the Chinese medicine leaps out of the book you're just like okay that's Chinese medicine like right there if you repress it too much yeah and then he says that's the reason John gets Associated also with the Book of Revelation and the apocalypse because psychologically all of that repression produces this backlash of all this repressed anger and bitterness and resentment and ultimately that's the reason why you get again the same author kind of like associated with both of these books who knows who wrote them right but he's saying like it's not an accident that get that gets tied together because it shows kind of where all this repression goes it eventually builds up into this apocalyptic level of like bitterness you know and that like maybe the tone throughout the book is like we've been all good and then those people haven't been good they're [...] and they're really gonna get it now we've been the good ones it's kind of like church ladyish or something like the old SNL thing right yeah I'm the good person and you're the bad person it's not coming from a place of compassion or something it's coming from a place of like I've done the good thing and you're suck you suck and you deserve to be punished or something so it leads to this space and then in this book of uh Revelation it's like a [...] blood bath and he goes into a loud description of it you know where the bodies are like kind of like I I haven't read it really I thought well maybe I really should now and I have um Bart Erman who's a scholar on like the New Testament and the Old Testament and all this kind of stuff biblical scholar and he wrote a whole book on that so I thought I better listen to this thing at some point and I'll share it with the g&t audience if it's interesting but like Jung is describing like the bodies are like in a wine press and it's like crushing them like grapes and the blood is going everywhere it's like really graphic which I never really read the thing have you ever read it I never did the Book of Revelations yeah I've had two courses in bi two college courses in Bible study um we read the R so is it that graphic like the way he's talking about because he's like it's a bloodbath yeah but it's been a long time I don't I don't remember all I remember some of you know the parts that stuck out to me I remember but you know probably a little bit more of the Old Testament to be honest some of those stories were more fun yeah the Book of Revelation is like just a bunch of weird symbolism that I imagine it would be easy to forget yeah yeah but I'm I'm I'll go back and read it we go whenever we do it I'll go back and read it again obviously um why not yeah so the whole idea is like you know there's all of this repressed stuff because the person is forced into this kind of corner of trying to follow this ethics which really isn't designed to make them happy it's designed to split them up inside of themselves and and then he says eventually this leads to This Book of Revelation and then even the figure of Jesus comes back like a like a like a slaughterer right he's not the lamb anymore he's this like kind of like you know what would you call it like a Revenge figure that appears from the sky you know what they call him the Antichrist or something like this well he's not the Antichrist in that one he's like he's a destroyer right Jesus comes back like I'm going to judge everybody and kick everybody's ass who oh and judgment yeah it's a judgment day thing right yeah you were talking about that I think maybe it was off mic I can't remember so if it was I hope it's okay bring it up but you were saying that a lot of people are attracted to that Jesus they don't want like a soft yes giving Jesus they want to Jesus who's an ass kicker I was going to I was going to bring it up as you were talking but yeah there are inspections currently of of Christianity who do not like the compassionate sort of soft voiced Jesus they think no offense you know if if you listen to if if if you believe in this and you want to come on the show and talk about it or you want to have a conversation with me and educate me more deeply no problem I I read some articles and I find it interesting so I'm just sharing it but they view him as kind of a [...] you know and that is that's not the Jesus that they are wanting to engage with they want the more badass you know uh eye for an ey which is not a full sentence because it's ey for an ie leaves the whole world blind but we're going to just cherry pick like uh somebody who's on TV once in a while chooses words and you know all the best words but any who they want that was a subtle reference yeah subtle subtle you know what I'm saying I gotta yeah yeah no more references but they view they want that version of Jesus right that's the one that they that's the one that they want and and you know which is kind of like antithetical to literally all of the teachings of Christ all of them it's he's such a like a curious figure because he can mean so many different things to so many different people right so I mean we can take Jung's take on it in the future but it's it's he's a he's an interesting figure yeah you know people have like tons of different versions who Jesus is for them right yeah but we're we'll do it next time we're gonna we'll do it next time on that one so okay so anyway so this is his point though his point is that Christian morality doesn't work in the sense of producing happiness it produces these divisions and these polarities maybe that gives the person who's living within them a chance to discover things through experiencing those polarities if you want to spin it positive but on the negative side it tends to drive people into these Corners where there's these splits within the culture that then get internalized into themselves and then in the effort to try to follow it which is like the idea of how you're going to be a good person that means inevitably you're going to be repressing a bunch of stuff and feel all torn up inside of yourself and that creates what we' say in Chinese medicine would be these wood phas problems these problems with anger you know these problems with frustration and repression and then in the symbolism of the way he's reading it through within the culture then all of a sudden the next book that emerges is this incredibly wrathful book right which is basically all the repressed anger and frustration like leaping out in this like uh onslaught of of you know like repress bitterness or something that's his take and even like the figure of Jesus who's supposed to be the reconciling figure comes back as like a wrathful figure he's no longer the lamb but he's like more like the Destroyer or something right yeah so he says well the reason that happened psychologically is because there was just something like in this polarizing of people that led to this thing so for to to me that got to the idea of you know what do you do about this right right and we were talking about this in terms of the meditations and you know and how can you do these practices within your own life and I don't know like I know how this is g to register with you I'll be curious to say to see what you think but the thing that hit me is like especially in our little podcast our goal is not to present like meditative things like kind of like a Prozac or a xan or something no not like it's all bad and we're kind of like we both struggle with our balance with this on the one hand and we both have taken like both of these positions too yeah yeah one position is kind of like okay you people need help and so if this helps that's good and also maybe you have insights as you're going through these things maybe your motivation in the beginning is I need to get my anxiety under control so let me do something that will help me deal with my anxiety and as that anxiety gets better than the insights grow and we can all say that it's good you know what I mean but on the other hand there's kind of like a way the culture wants to like kind of box everything in and like kind of like the meditative things the spiritual things and like stick them in a nice little box and they're just they're just like paleo lives it's just like again taking a Prozac or a Xanax or like an ibuprofen or something you'll feel a little bit better but maybe you're never get getting really to the root of what the problems are so I know we've talked about this before but I definitely had this reaction thinking about this stuff with Yung because you get to the point where he's talking about deep things that are you know that at least in part are going to be triggered the awareness of them are going to be triggered if you start doing the kind of meditations he's talking about so when you brought up the whole idea of the episode of doing this I was like oh this is an interesting problem because on the one hand sometimes the idea of presenting meditations and things like that are like like okay this is going to make my life a little bit better right it'll make me sleep a little bit better so it's like a sleep aid it's an anti-anxiety drug it's a if or that and that's how it's it's a this or that kind of thing sure with this limited kind of medicalized little idea you know life hacking they call that life hacking or something right yeah yeah yeah and that's obviously not what Jung is talking about right and it occurred to me that if you really start talking about what he's doing there it's not going to be a life hack right it's not that small of a thing because you know one's inner and outer worlds are not separate things so when you start messing around with your inner world it's going to like tap into the outer world too and you're gonna start to see different elements of the outer world you might feel the need to change them it's not like you're gonna be able to keep everything in your life the same and just all of a sudden you meditate or something right that might not be the case you might start having insights into like I don't like these parts of my life or these parts of myself or the parts of what's going on and then also if if you're tapping into a lot of spiritual energy especially someone like Sophia or other wisdom goddesses they're going to want you to change they're not going to be like this is my impression on this you can tell me what you think Daniel but they're not GNA be okay with like okay I'm just doing my little meditation because it's my own personal Xanax or my own personal ambient or something like a wisdom if you're gonna go deeper what you is doing that wisdom goddess is not going to be satisfied with that and I don't know what you think about that but I just thought that that's an interesting question for me because a wisdom goddess is going to clamor it's not going to just be like oh yeah that's cool I'm just going to peer for you just to like help you deal with your little problems you know of um and little sounds pejorative and I didn't mean it that way but you know trying to minimize things trying to turn them into my little problems it's going to show you like the big problems the winds wisdom goddess is gonna come in and it's G to try to shake your world up and I think y had that experience personally and I I think that's what Sophia is going to do you know I'm throwing it back to you what do you think oh yeah I know it's a stumper I don't think it's an easy thing no so the the LA the previous podcast that was posted I titled does the universe whisper yeah I liked it and title I think the answer is no it doesn't whisper it speaks and sometimes very loud voices yeah but like anything we could find a means to dist ract us from that sound do you know what I'm saying yeah and so in one sense and I'm I'm I don't know why I'm just sticking in my brain I was at the grocery store earlier and the guy I bought a kombucha once in a while I have a kombucha you know as many humans do um he said oh do you want it out of the bag should I leave it out of the bag for you and I said no he goes oh a lot of people like it out of the bag and I said oh why is that he said well you know in the world of self-medication people want have something you know when they leave here and I was just like oh that's that's an interesting observation and I was like no I don't I don't do that you know that's not I said people need out the bag and they just start like sipping it down before they get out yeah yeah and I said well eventually um anything that could be medicine used too much could be a poison and I think in this way this is not meditation is never going to be a poison uh so long that you're open in how you're doing it and not focusing on like weird evil kind of sh you know kind of evil [...] but if you have a practice of like being open and listening you know or being in the flow of whatever it is that you're working on working with that those those uh intrinsic space spaces of knowingness will open and at at at those times what what erupts whether it be on the meditation cushion or in your life you become more sensitive to your surroundings internally and externally and so there are things that will just like you said that that will come up and it will not be a whisper it won't be a little thing it's going to say no and I I mean for me in my life you it just kind of comes it just I'm not thinking about like anything any of these problems I'm just going along doing my thing I don't know why I'm moving my arms right now but you know it's you in motion yeah that's it and it just it just they just kind of like come up almost seemingly out of nowhere and and boom like a bird [...] right on your windshield and it's like okay what are you going to do about it now you know and I feel like the stronger that you become or not can to say stronger let's say more resilient that you become in meditation during meditation the more resilient you become in your life and therefore unfortunately you are tasked with having um higher difficulty problems sometimes because you can deal with it because you have the ability to work through these obstacles and the way that you're doing on a day daily basis and so while some people feel much better doing meditation and and it really does it's it's it's a universal meditation in my in my opinion um it doesn't mean that your life is going to become easier because of it it it doesn't work like that and you know for me like we and we haven't done an episode on this and we're going to have to Workshop a little bit a little bit maybe this is what I'll be put together for the beginning of next month but talking about like work the work you know something along about like the professional life you mean no I mean the oh the work of spirituality or something like that the work of spirituality right the work of yourself the work of your life like it's work and you decide to start I I think once you decide to begin meditating you begin you decide that you're gonna start working like that's when you decide to start working and not before that people are working of course but now you're doing it let's say it voluntarily you know what I'm saying like you're you're going okay fine I'm gonna go in the water and I better learn how to swim because it only gets deeper as time goes on you know um so so that's kind I I I agree with this actually that like at some points whether it be the wisdom goddesses or whoever is speaking to you at particular points in your life based on your chart or your karma or your practice things do come up and they do kind of erupt it's it's usually not like a tiny knock on the door it's a gust at the it's a gust and the window opens and a bunch of [...] Falls over and you're like oh damn I better pay attention I guess it's like you know Yung has the whole thing about until you make the unconscious conscious it will it will uh determine your life and you will call it fate or something right that that yeah so and he makes a big deal about the notion of like you can go along the process and get kind of dragged along with it or you can maybe try to get ahead of it a little bit you know and the whole idea that yeah until you go and start doing maybe some of the more stuff you're talking about the work part of it then you'll still get your it'll still go yeah you know the the process will still unfold you'll just be getting your your butt kicked from from from that side of it right because you'll be kind of standing in the way of it yeah that's kind of how he thinks about it yeah but you know when you brought up this whole idea of this sort of experiential episode I was like okay this is fascinating because we can talk about the journeying we can talk about the polarity thing and the Transcendent function thing yeah but I was thinking okay if you're G to tap on archetypal figures like Sophia you know that's a wisdom goddess and wisdom goddess is like you know they're different they are they're gonna like make a little Demand on you you know so I thought well that's an interesting thing to kind of like talk about or try to share right because that's not they're not like oh you meditated 10 minutes good for you that's not like what a wisdom goddess does because the wisdom goddess wants you to change and evolve yeah right and it was interesting because I pulled out like kind of the stuff that you going be exposed to there's this Gnostic text called Thunder perfect mind and it's kind of written from the perspective of like a Sophia character you know you would know this right and so what's really interesting about it is like it does have this quality of like you got to get over these oppositions you can't let your life be dominated by a bunch of oppositions that tear you apart inside like it's not good which is what yung's observation is probably about himself and his patients right so I'll give you a couple lines from it just for the hey of it right sure yeah so she says I've issued from a great power and visit all those who contemplate me so this is the tapping into her part right I've been discovered by those who search diligently great pay attention those that meditate upon me and listen well exclamation point all of you who are patiently waiting take me to yourself beautiful don't dismiss me from your mind and don't let your inner voices despise me interesting don't forget me at any time or place Be watchful you're supposed to be like aware of her and then the book transitions a little bit and she starts talking about all this opposition stuff which just kind of gives maybe the vibe of what Yung is talking about too and he would have known this stuff right so she says I am the first and the last I am both respected and ignored I am both the Harlot and the holy I am wife and virgin mother and daughter organs of my mother baren yet many are my sons I am she whose marriage is auspicious but I am husbandless i w I am the Midwife who doesn't carry the balm of birth pains I am bride and groom sired by my spouse I am mother of my father sister of my husband and he's my son and it continues on like this and so you're like what's happening here and you can kind of see what's happening kind of is this explosion of all these oppositions you know and she's like blowing them all apart and in the end you won't be able to be left with any of these things right she's GNA take the oppositional part and she's going to like explode it and where's that from Eric uh Thunder perfect mind one of the Gnostic texts and that's Sophia and I just wanted to bring it up because you can see the the blowing up of the opposition she's just like exploding it right and I was thinking about you know and it's auspicious we're doing in this on Buddhist tantric wisdom day but I was thinking about like the tantric goddesses are like that too they're fiery fig you know the wisdom goddesses they're not the ones that are like the most um you know kindly easily accessible nurturing they can have those qualities but there's a part of them that are kind of a little bit challenging and they're going to challenge you especially on what Yung is talking about these inner divisions these polarities these splits between this kind of like black and white thinking they don't like that stuff and they're probably going to challenge it and of course y would know this too um Jung sees the connection between Sophia and shaki in like answer to job he brings this up he sees them as being connected it's not just me saying it from the Yung point of view but there's sort of a classic story of like the wisdom goddesses and the Buddhist Tantra tradition where they're going to blow these things up and I was trying to think of when to represent it and there's one where there's kind of a monk and he's trying to be all keeping his monkess very pure and uh the wisdom goddess it's vaj yogini appears as a kind of a beautiful younger woman and he's there trying to be all good and uh quote unquote and in his mind in this polarized way and she goes walking across the courtyard and she's looking all probably Saucy or something but she's also like dragging like a piece of meat behind her to roast and eat and it's classic story and you know she's like with the monk like hey you want some of my meat over here let's have a barbecue and of course he thinks that's bad so he's like no I'm not gonna do that and then he realizes that he's [...] up and it's the wisdom goddess she appear saying you have all these ideas in your mind of what you think are this or that this is the good thing this is the bad thing this is all like a creation of your own mind or if you go to Jung probably a creation of like a culture that like divided the world in this way right and uh and I'm here to like blow this up and she continues to do it I have you heard that story before no I never have it's a good one good one and like all I I mean I can't talk about too much but like it'll happen actually yeah it's weird to say but like Sophia will appear or you know if you want to say vaj yini or shaki whatever she'll appear and she'll like kind of put you on the spot and she'll point out to you like hey this is some spot where you're polarized inside yourself I'm going to poke on it until you get it that you're polarizing yourself right with these ideas you have in your own mind and I'm gonna thunder it you want to be that way Thunder perfect mind I'm gonna thunder it and I'm gonna like lightning crack it until you get out of this you know so when you brought that when the idea came up you brought this great idea up and I was like wow this is not an easy thing to talk about because Jung says himself he's kind of a little afraid of Sophia right and his own Visions when he first starts seeing her he's nervous um because he sort of knows that she's going to appear is this figure that's going to be very challenging for him and when she appears for him she appears as salom who's the biblical figure who is responsible for beheading John the Baptist you know in the old story so I mean a lot of people don't know these Bible stories anymore you have to obviously but the story was that she does the dance of the seven veils so she's sort of an erotic figure right and in the end she pleases the King by this erotic dance and for her mother you know when she gets the king's approval and the King will do will offer her a a sort of a except one of her requests right on behalf of her mother she demands the head of John the Baptist and he gets executed um I have a bunch of pictures of this thing from the uh Lou when we when I was in Paris because they have a lot of like representations of this it's a kind of an amazing story and it's very dramatic when you capture it and so he saw her appearing as that you know and then she's with Elijah in his vision and you know the prophet and Elijah says well that's my daughter and like Yung is like confused obviously you know why is this happening why am I seeing these two figures Elijah a prophet of wisdom and then this wisdom goddess but the wisdom goddess is scary for him you know and he talks about like being a little afraid of her because he knows in a certain sense that she's gonna like blow through and not let any of his false Concepts stand right like she's not gonna do it you know and it's kind of interesting so they're talking and Elijah explains that he and solom are one from the beginning and Yung is like what and then he says 'w you are the symbol of the most extreme contradiction and then Elijah answers we are not symbols we are real and then the whole kind of thing continues on to this idea of of uh things in Yung where he feels all this polarized stuff inside of him and it's quite interesting then because when he tries to figure out what Solomon and Elijah symbolized for him he realizes that they're kind of two parts of him solom symbolizes sort of the more passionate side of him the side that wants to love the sides that probably wants to experience uh pleasure and sexuality and things and he calls her he symbol she symbolizes love but when he sees her she's kind of blinded like she can't see and then there's a whole kind of thing that that in in her inter in his interactions with her she all of a sudden becomes cited and he realizes okay this is some repressed part of me that I was afraid of and on the opposite side Elijah was sort of like Insight in rationality and forth thinking but those two parts of him were clashing so it's another opposition he felt in himself you know what I mean the opposition between love and and the the reasoning part of himself the passionate part of himself the love part of himself so he says this funny thing I'm gonna quote him a little bit here right he says god holds love in his right for thinking in his left love is on the fa favorable side for thinking on the unfavorable this should recommend love to you in so far as you are part of this world especially if you are a thinker so he seems to be saying in himself this got divided up he split these two parts of himself apart and then salom may symbolize sort of the one side and then Elijah kind of the other side yeah and he was like he was just splintered inside of himself so he says um here what happened was previously my desire My my capacity for love was blind my Desiring was blind but it was love and I had to like unmask to see what it really was and that so I think the whole idea is that the wisdom God are GNA do this kind of stuff you know they're going to appear you know to challenge us so again when you brought the episode I thought well this is really fascinating you know and and the thing that like I mean maybe it's a closer for me in this D because I know you like like this one so I was pulling it back to it my notes the deepest point in these things was that the wisdom godom goddesses and the archetypes are not your existential Guardian operating systems they're not right right like to you co to go back to your phrase for this they're not your default mode Network they're not that you know they're here to challenge those things so I don't know if these kinds of practices are the ones that are like the Feelgood ones right the ones that are kind of like the medic meditative Xanax or the meditative Prozac or anything they're really not right they're much more challenging yeah right and they're gonna challenge you and we I think we both agree that that's a good thing to do but they're you know they're not the they're not the simple ones and I think the impression I get from y in the end you know because we spent a lot of time with him over the course of this year looking at different parts of him yeah is that like he he came to understand this I think and then he also he also changed his life like eventually realize like I'm gonna have to change my life to adjust to these insights that I'm having so I don't think that's the part that's interesting to me I don't think the wisdom goddesses and Sophia or vaj yini or Shakti or any of these figures are gonna leave your life alone they're not going to do it they're going to challenge you on it that is a tough pill to swallow yeah yeah I just want to be honest about it you know what I mean yeah I wanted to be honest you know I know what you think well you know I thought like okay we're gonna talk about that's our g&t thing to do to talk about it honest well we're talking about it honest yeah you know and and keeping it you know I can't keep it 100 but I could you know keep it like 86 yeah I I uh I hear you you know yeah so yeah so for you know those who are are listening yeah it's not going to it then it it won't it's not going to go away I mean and and the the renouncing of one's practice or practices will not it will cause the voices to change but I don't think once you're sort of tapped in that it it really disappears your life will then go back to being dictated by unconscious forces that you're have no longer a relationship with and things happen to you as opposed to you know with you and I'd rather be in a I'd rather be in a position of um equal opportunity to have influence on my own on the trajector uh trajectory of my own life and the forces that are happening with it simultaneously as my actions unfold out of a you know kind of creative place but also one with int intentionality where I feel like I'm I'm I get to be my authentic self you know but also understanding that I am not the complete driver on the ship that I'm a co-pilot if you will and accepting I I think the acceptance in that is comes via your the meditative process there's a quote you know and and you're kind of saying this you weren't saying it but you are kind of saying it at least in my mind that is not an easy path to take this is not you know these these types of things they can be anxiety reducing and they can help with your focus and they can you know all the all this kind of fun stuff right life hack Tech things but simultaneously it is a building up of one's internal resilience fortitude character however you want to call it it's kind of a Warrior's path even if we're doing slow breathing and it's not you're not thinking that you're like some kind of rough and tumble kind of character it is a Warrior's path in some in some way and um and I forgot the book I think the the book is by Dan milman uh and it's called like the warrior of light or something like this and in it uh I I quote you know some quotes stick with you forever and he said uh silence is a silence is the Warrior's art and meditation is his sword and i' and I've always it's always I've always remembered that because I think when people have the ability to sit in Stillness to embody silence and to be embodied by silence and Stillness together that that gives them a power that very few people have because I find at least in my practice and in my life working with people that people try very very very hard to never be in Stillness to not be in silence to always have something going on in the background stuff on their schedule you know what I'm saying like this is a very deep kind of avoidance in in my opinion and I believe that they're avoiding these spaces where these things come out of naturally and if people don't want to face them then they're going to keep themselves floating on the surface like a buoy as opposed to maybe what we're saying is it like yeah you can go down a little bit deeper but understand like there's currents underneath there that are larger than you that are happening anyways so you might as well at least for me you might as well consciously approach them or be whipped around the ocean by whatever way the wind is blowing because it's already going to be blowing that way anyways yeah I think there's like um I think he's saying it I think he's saying like you can either get ahead of this and start like you know trying to become aware of a process and you know take a more of a lead on it or you're just going to get swept up in the process anyways it's GNA go on regardless yeah there's one other quote I want to throw out with him and then just maybe they'll be the Capper for the episode my part but yeah so he's always he's had this quote and actually I've gotten it like on a t-shirt but he has this quote that says like to be normal is the ideal aim of like mediocre people which has always sounded like a kind of a harsh thing but also kind of like Darkly funny because it's kind of statistically true you know like normal is like just like the middle uh so it's his little poke right but I discovered there was like a longer version of it so it says to be normal is the ideal aim sometimes people say mediocre sometimes people say unsuccessful so he says to be normal is the ideal aim for the unsuccessful for all those who are still below the general level of adaptation so he's getting something kind of deep there if you're really struggling in life your goal to be normal is like okay right yeah that's actually okay but then he goes on he says but for people of more than average ability people who have never found it uh difficult to gain successes and accomplish their share of the world's work so now he's talking about people who are kind of like in the societal Zone you know they're more like they're not falling through the bottom right he says for them the moral compulsion to be nothing but normal signifies the bed of procus which I guess I don't know if I'm even pronouncing that Greek right procus it's like an old Greek figure uh I think he was going to be one of the children of Poseidon or something but like he's kind of a lunatic and he has this bed and the idea is that if you're too small for the bed he like stretches your bones out and like rips you big to fit in the bed so you're getting tortured that way or if you're too like tall for the bed he just cuts off your feet your legs until you fit in the bed so he's basically saying for people who are you know otherwise not struggling to get to this place but they're in it it's not going to work to stay there because it's in a certain sense it's an artificial bed right and he's drawing on this old procrustean image right to capture this and he says what will start to happen is is your life will start to sour and so he puts it like this he says for them the the moral compulsion to be normal to be nothing but normal signifies the bed of proc Christus hope I'm doing that right deadly and insupportable boredom a hell of sterility and hopelessness so it's strong probably too strong on some level but he's trying to make a point which is I think is more related back to something we've talked about we've talked about almost like these four stages or types of people and where people are at right and if you're in the place where you're struggling to hold your life together to get your life to normal is good you know right it's a much Kinder quote than it initially seems he's saying yeah for that person that's an accomplishment but if you're in that space where you know you're just normal now what may happen is that may start to sour right and they'll start to sour Maybe by Design almost right to force you out of it it's kind of a again an artificial straight Jacky kind of a thing sure and then it's from this idea from going from type two to type three like we talked about in previous episodes that when you're trying to break out of this over the confining space and he's obviously talking about that in himself and he's talking about that with patience he eventually saw like okay listen you're in this spot where this now is too artificially limiting for you and you're going to feel that tension right and you have to like pop out of that now yeah and then that will be the goal out and then that will lead you to like more deeper spiritual fulfillment ultimately but I think if you're talking about a wisdom goddess they're going to want you to go above them mundane they're not going to let you stay in that bed you know I mean even if it's a comfy bed you know like a whole you got your sleep number all set up and everything's good they're not gonna let you do it you put you put a quar let you stay asleep you put a quarter in there it vibrates yeah awesome you know magic finger magic fingers you no they're not gonna do it no mm no a wisdom goddess is going to make you go out of the mundane they're just going to make you do it yeah yeah so anyways I think that's it I mean it's a good place to stop but that that's the Tantra that's the that's the thing you know and I think I mean from a certain sense I think you know in this whole book of Job thing and all we've been talking about his visions and the Transcendent function all that he was I think ultimately embodying a certain kind of tantric way of looking at the world right and he's trying to say that this is what's really going to happen yeah all right so I think we did it justice yeah I think so yeah all right cool well on to Le closers are you good no we're good I'm good to go we got it I think we got it wrapped up nice here yeah um Eric as always thank you my friend the journey for today for always uh to our audience thank you guys for for rocking with us whether today's number one or number whatever number we're on I don't know I don't count anymore but it's in the hundreds for shes uh we thank you guys for for tuning in uh if you if you you know want to hit us up feel free Jin and Tantra gmail.com that's Jin and the the word and Jin and Tantra gmail.com you can leave a like or a comment in the YouTube we'll definitely see it uh subscribe it does help us out in the algorithm which you know helps us to be seen by by more people and uh looking at the uh analytics more than 90% of the audience actually isn't even our our audience so you know guys if if you like what we're doing subscribe uh and if you don't like what we're doing subscribe anyways you know who cares you know do us a solid give us a solid you know what I'm saying um you know hit us up on uh Instagram jyn and Tantra podcast we you know post some things up there so wherever you do your thing uh we're probably there doing ours as well so uh you know share with those whom you like share with those whom you don't uh this is a labor of love and we definitely love everybody who uh you know shows us a little love in return but if you don't it's all good love you anyways yeah for Eric this is Daniel we'll catch everybody on the next one peace