foreign Tantra spirituality with a Twist you have Daniel with you today and as you have already heard from the introduction my good friend and dare we say dare we say friend of the show Christian villacres uh whom I have been friends with now for you know probably the better part of a decade at least so uh Christian welcome thank you very much Daniel yeah of course so Christian and I are um beginning on a new Venture together that um began with a very sort of interesting story and maybe we'll give the background we'll do the story now um give your side Christian because it it's you know it's interesting I guess you know um sure well Daniel said that we've been friends for the better part of a decade but for a good portion of that decade we were not in communication at all in the very Physical Realm um and then back in November of 2022 my partner got invited onto a women's retreat a women's Ayahuasca Retreat down in Mexico and not enough women signed up so the retreat turned into a Couple's Retreat um which meant that I got to go to Ayahuasca in Mexico and as tends to happen when you sign up to go on a plant medicine Retreat the medicine starts working right away before the Brew even hits the cup and as I started to feel the impending Journeys and the impending Transformations I got this feeling inside of me like I needed an ally in my life I needed a spiritual Ally a brother a teacher someone that I could count on and look to for guidance accountability good times good laughs and instinctively I had this feeling like I needed to reach out to Daniel Daniel when I first met him you uh introduced me into the world of shamanism um I recall right now my mom telling me when I was a little kid that I was very mysterious as I always felt inclined to the mysterious arts in the world but I never really had any formal training uh I mostly just dabbled in curiosity um and so when I first met Daniel when we were in our master's program he taught me the the basics of shamanism the basic of journeying the basics of drumming uh the basics of the three worlds um that inhabit or that are inhabited in this spiritual reality that we exist in and so when I got the feeling that I needed an ally it just made sense that Daniel would be the person to reach out to so I reached out to Daniel and I said to him Daniel I think we need to lead a retreat together um before but one second it had been like seven years since literally seven years since I had heard from you a little bit more yes so and I I think the time I prior to that that I reached out to you I was I was asking about motorcycles since I knew that that you had ridden um but yeah it was a lot of time that went by and definitely not time for that you know I'd forgotten about you I think like most things things were just waiting to unfold until the planets realigned and reconnected um so I reached out to you and you know said I'm gonna go on this retreat but when I come back um I would love to meet up and and talk and you know start up some of these practices again and see what kind of work we can do together and then you asked me where I was going and as soon as I told you the name of the retreat kumankaya in Mexico you were like oh [...] I know those people they're like some of my best friends yeah and then just hit me well of course of course this is this is the small interconnected world that we live in yeah and after that I just kind of felt like well this is exactly what was meant to happen and for for those who are interested um I did interview one of the owners of kumankaya on the podcast uh you could find it under the podcast titled kumankaya so uh feel free to uh to check that one out great episode uh videos available via YouTube and the audio is available wherever you're listening to this on because you're hearing this on some platform right now so you know I told you about kumankaya um I received this fairly Divine messaging that this is exactly what's supposed to be happening otherwise we wouldn't have been pulled together by these um by these shared relations and I thought it was interesting you know that this Retreat that I was going on was first a woman's Retreat which then turned into a Couple's Retreat um I'm not always necessarily one to like dive into the Paradigm of like masculine versus feminine um in and of itself you know like we could talk about yin and yang we can talk about left and right up and down yes and no whatever you know I just think it's you know another um way of relating to the to the existence of Duality um but in this world you know we we are born into certain bodies um and those bodies do in some form or another impact the experience that we have uh socially hormonally etc etc so I had been feeling this call do a men's Retreat mostly because actually a couple of my clients wives had requested it on a couple of my clients wives um basically were like you need to take my husband and like help him you know compassionately help him grow up a little bit help them change help him evolve um help him stop drinking alcohol help them stop you know associating in the very basic uh tropes of Western superficial masculinity uh and so you know I tend to feel like you know we do what the universe asks us to do and so the universe was making a pretty clear message that we needed to do some work with men and provide a space for men to redefine for themselves what it means to be men and interact as men as men and as people yes you know as men as an as and and as compassionate people and like you said we don't want to necessarily add to the dualistic viewpoints of left and right of of his and hers or wherever you fit in between you know but that like coming to in order to come to kind of a whole you know integral B organism as like a society we also have to begin kind of with ourselves and with whatever you know gender you are you have inherited or that you have now identified with because you do have to come into some level of identification in order to overcome it right you have to kind of know what it is that you're overcoming that then like in this scenario we're providing this these you know men in this case and and what regardless of whatever your you know gender identity doesn't matter you have to try and find a place that you can transcend your own limitations to what you believe that is and then come into a greater harmony with within that within in that side inside and then and have that radiate outside to your community because the like we talked about on the retreat the more functional and and holistic that you are within yourself the the more that you're going to be that way within people around you and on a regular basis you know and everything that you do well I think the irony of it is that the the Gathering of men amongst just men made it easier in some way to de-identify the masculine differentiator you know by by not having women in the room we weren't identifying as men in opposition to this is what we're not yeah it was mostly like well now we're all one and the same and we're just human beings so we could let go of you know some of the more like superficial trappings of Western masculinity which is you know how we want to be perceived in opposition to like or in relations of the opposite sex you know so it allowed in many ways for that masculine ego to drop yeah in some ways what I think what I witnessed was first men got to stop being men yeah to be little boys so they got to be friends they got to be playful they got to be curious they got to be vulnerable they didn't have to be sun fictitious concept of strong or yeah mostly just strong or even feel like they knew at all they could ask questions and learn instead of having to pretend like they always said the answers that that I think was really the benefit of doing a like a men's Retreat is being able to isolate that singular component and then get rid of it it seems like that this kind of like what you mentioned earlier Christian this Western superficial masculinity is probably what some people would call like toxic masculinity sure you know I mean I I'm not so well versed on exactly what the definition is because I don't like I don't identify with that kind of [...] but it seems like that like those like you said those tropes of like of masculine identity in the negative sense you know mansplaining like being competitive constantly you're to your point I guess it never even hit me but like yeah those things were gone like right out the gate like there was no there wasn't any sort of competition and I think what is at least becoming more aware for me as I host more ceremonies whether it be prep work or meditation or in this case retreats is that the way in which we act in society sometimes is unconscious versus the way that we act around our friends or ourselves or our partners and there is some level of like protective mechanism some egoic I don't know lack of vulnerability or whatever however you want to look at it that arises when you're around other people for whatever reason it just sort of comes up and so then there's fight for attention and there is fight to be the funny one nurse fight to be the strong one there's fight to be the smart one you know all these different like tropes that start to kind of like pop their way up or if you want to call them uh archetypes perhaps you know they start to work their way out very people's various personalities and then it becomes actually an impediment to connection and impediment to communication and and really an impediment to growth because there's no difference in our way I think I think we hit a point where we start to our behavior when we're not being mindful of it or not mindful of the experiences or traumas or background narratives that inform our perception our behaviors end up becoming ones that try to fill a role that we think we're expected to fill for someone that role might be being the funny one because they for whatever reason that's their narrative right for someone else the role might be like oh I have to be the strong one or I have to be the know-bo dollar I need to win all the time you know or for someone else it might be I have to be the nice guy you know I can't be the one that wins all the time like I have to you know so I think the way that we behave socially is a you know when it's unconscious is a reflection of the role that we think we're supposed to fill um and then when we start to feel more wholesome in ourselves and love ourselves intrinsically and not need as much external validation uh it allows the opportunity for us to express our our true selves you know ourselves minus the minus all the external influence that creates filters around us yeah yeah no I think that's right so kind of moving in then to you know the weekend that we just had so Christian reached out to me and then we kind of got back in contact and very early on he was like I want to run this men's Retreat and I was like okay because I just be saying yes to [...] you know it's just like okay fine let's do it and um you know we put together a group of uh half a dozen half a dozen Bros have a dozen Brothers you know but but grown men professionals some lawyer and some doctors and some you know people who you know make moves in the world you know as grown up and some people with families and kids and and singles and all sorts of all throughout the spectrum of different races and and you know from what different walks of life and uh we rented a a small you know kind of uh Retreat Center Airbnb in um in Michigan and we went there uh this past weekend so I think also worth noting that none of these people knew each other correct you know um none of these people had ever met each other before um which also meant to a certain degree that no one had any preconceived ideas of how they've been seen and how that could influence how they are seeing so everyone was in a very open state where they could they could Embrace change uh without threatening um what any what anyone already thought about them which I think is really really significant also something that I have reflected on quite a bit since then is that how how frequently do you know guys from Chicago and 2023 have the opportunity to hang out with a bunch of other guys without alcohol being a part of the picture without television being a part of the picture without all of these external things to either lower your lower your inhibitions or to serve as distractions in between communication yeah yeah that that that itself you know uh was a huge experience I think you know to not have these these other things in the way um defining the space yeah this is one of the you know one of the Beauties really in in going on retreats and you know Retreats can certainly be done at home they could you can go to a retreat center or you know go out into the woods or whatever but you know for me a retreat is a is a withdrawal of your senses and often of your physical body from your daily habituated life right and all the things that you're doing so you're not working you're not like jabbing on the phone you're not processing what you would normally process and you give yourself to kind of the opportunity to to recollect reabsorb the energies that you're normally sending out on a daily basis that you're you're really prone to be doing without even thinking about it you know and you're consciously going into a place of respite a place of you know of regeneration if you will and it starts yeah and it starts with the kind of cutting off of all of the attachments that we have on a normal basis and the other part to your point that I didn't know that everybody I knew some people didn't know each other but I didn't know that everybody was you know didn't know each other but when you meet new people you have an opportunity there's a Crossroads you know when you use your identity is who you tell yourself that you are that's who you are if you start start a new story you be somebody different sooner than later but when you have an opportunity to meet somebody new they don't know you at all and so you present yourself as the way that you want to be and I think that like everybody who went there had a did a really nice job of presenting who it is that they are working towards becoming you know and giving themselves the opportunity to fill in those shoes as opposed to you know caring in their baggage as their identity they didn't have it and of course throughout the conversations and works that we did it comes up because it's a it's a growth point you know it's a touch point for people to go oh yeah I suffer from that too or I've experienced that in my life and then the sort of um intelligence of the group becomes larger than any one particular individual and it's because they are willing to give and take from a position of openness from a position of Desiring to be free of the things that they brought there that one they wanted to work on or let go of wait I think it's probably worth mentioning too um a lot of the background that inspired the the content the fluid content of this retreat was based off of the personal work that I've done um with what we'll call generational healing or even just generational awareness um and then how I've implemented that with some of my private clients um in terms of exploring why are you could you are like why do you present the way that you do um this these these manifestations in your in your emotional patterns uh in your behavioral patterns that you know may have served you at one point may have served your family a generation ago but now are you know sort of Rippling or echoing Through Your Existence as anxiety as depression as um repetitive emotional stress you know repetitive uh behave um relationship patterns you know like why why are we suffering the way that we're suffering and in some form or another I had you know even just in like this concept of reincarnation or something it's like we keep experiencing the same lessons over and over and over again until we're able to integrate them and once we're able to integrate the lessons we can stop having them you know it's like we can stop doing the thing that bashes us over the head once we learn why it's bashing us over the head uh so you know my a big inspiration of mine with doing a retreat like this and with doing more Retreats like this in the future is to get not just men obviously but any and all individuals in touch with um with the Legacy that they carry that's playing out through them right here right now and how they can heal that and the first level of healing anything is becoming aware of the wound itself and if you're not aware of the baggage that you're carrying you can't let go of it you can only feel the symptoms of anxiety of depression and then you know you can get yourself labeled as being anxious or depressed and you can get yourself labeled as in some version of broken and diagnosed or you can transcend all that by seeing where is this coming from in the first place and if I'm living out a certain narrative a certain an inherited narrative in my life how do I start to rewrite the story so you said you know there's you know when people who don't know each other you get the opportunity to sort of reinvent yourself well I think we always have the opportunity to reinvent ourselves we always have the opportunity to say this is who I've been up until now that was informed by bees and this and such experience this is what I can learn from that and this is how I can be a more evolved human being tomorrow without carrying the baggage the regret the resentment the anger the bitterness or whatever you know um and so that that is you know we prepared for this transformational Workshop to help people transform and I think that's really what at the heart of it is what we're trying to transform at least I think are the parts of our identity that no longer serve us [Music] yeah no I agree and it was good work you know it was really good work and I think one of the one of the benefits you know for people who have never been on on a retreat of any type before it gives you the opportunity to be steeped in the work and to be steeped in a community of people that is also doing the same work so there's this shared Bond of going through something or some things that I don't know that many people have you know so of course if you played team sports then you had this opportunity if you were in the military opportunity I guess working in restaurants also something a little bit more along the lines of this normal job I don't know if you're data crunching or whatever that you have the same kind of kinship with the people next to you unless your boss is like some super [...] or which I guess is probably natural you know but there's not as much communal awareness outside of our own family or friend group depending on how many friends you have that people have this opportunity to connect with on an unspoken Bond as they go through various you know trials tribulations or experience you know coexisting experiences simultaneously and so it's um it's something that that I love to do personally and that it's a really a pleasure hosting so for you know people who are listening to this and you know if you're thinking about taking some time to go on some Retreat even if it's not like a healing Retreat or whatever you know maybe it's yoga or journaling or you know what a Kung Fu whatever it is like it's worth it it's worth it because it's a it's a different kind of vacation you know as I call them conscious vacations something that you're you're you know you're steeping yourself like a bag of tea you know for a little bit of a longer period other than maybe like a workshop or a class like you're going to wake up and do it all day and then go to sleep think about it and then wake up and do the next you know you're gonna get like multiple touch points with people and the people who you're working with and the people who are hosting also have the opportunity to uh show you who they are actually over you know because you can keep it together for like an hour Workshop or like a two hour long class but when you see somebody kneel in and meal out you know waking and sleeping um they can't hide anymore and neither can you you know or me well that's and that's the funny thing too is like they're all healing Retreats like on the outside this could have looked like a breath work Retreat you know we haven't described what we did on the retreat you know every every morning of the retreat we started off with um Qigong first thing in the morning followed by a cacao ceremony well with intention setting and discussion on different elements of Buddhism followed by like an hour and a half or two hours of some fairly intense breath work followed by some integration discussion and then we did an exploration of energy healing like partner Reiki work for individuals who were you know at least in the energetic Healing Arts are fairly lay people even though we did have some psychotherapists and some MDS there but this was non-materialistic and non-talk based healing um we also did shamanic journeying um drum induced hypnotic shamanic Journey which is a very new experience for a lot of people and I was actually blown away with how well they did you know the fact that most of them had some degree of visionary experience I think is amazing you know and I think that also just speaks to you know the energy and the space that was created collectively and also maybe through our through our own craftsmanship that enough disbelief was surrendered by enough people that everyone got to basically have a lucid dream yeah let's give ourselves more credit yeah yeah yeah and on the back patch double patch oh we did a great job but I think part of that also was the fact that it was it was you know it was a men's Retreat and so we were able to they were there was no competition there was no you know everybody was foreign to it and and even if it was a co-ed Retreat some of these things would have lended themselves very nicely so uh to people's experience so long as they were like you said able to suspend disbelief because it it disbelief is almost people's disposition actually oh yeah skepticism yeah and and I'm good with critical thinking I'm all for it we like it you know that's those are the best questions come from critical thinking uh on the other hand like being critical is not critical of thinking you know critically thinking is being open to possibility you're just penetrating the the subject matter with your appointed awareness not just [...] on it because you know you heard something different from somebody else never thinking that person might have been incorrect or that you know one thing that you heard from some guy or some gal was not right you know you know but what's what strikes me as being uh uniquely profound and maybe this is an assumption um but uniquely profound about it being just a men's group was that the breath work entered in the in the in the last stages of the holotropic sections where you know the people were already you know in certain states of tetany people's bodies were shaking and vibrating people were crying all that we had a group of eight men well you and I included who were howling like monkeys and screaming and vibrating and chanting like they're you know like ancient Native Americans it's like they were they were all over the place and and I I think that was a very special space of like you know we could have been a group of 13 year old boys you know that that was a very entering that space together I think was very healing yeah um being being able to completely let go and not feel stupid it was incredibly incredibly healing you um I I've had I took a lot of videos on the last day of breath work and I've had the pleasure of kind of browsing through them I haven't shared any of them yet but there's just hilarity in there it's hilarious we're such goofballs yeah we're such goofballs were such genuine genuine like authentic heartfelt goofballs in those videos like really pouring our hearts out um and that and that that I think is something like that that was unique I think to the space that was created but it's it's something that people don't do no and that's and that's sad no one none of them myself included to a certain extent have ever had that experience before and granted you know like we're always in the moment there's never a repeated moment ever but like I'm sure you've never witnessed anything quite like that before you know not exactly but I've but I've but similar States just not exactly like that but no I mean that's this is exactly why I do the uh the breath work yeah and I do it the way that I do it because it allows for silliness you know it's it's hard work but there's an element of play involved and I just don't think that people play enough and that's you know one of the things about being on Retreat whether it's men's not or whatever is that you do have the element of play is absolutely in it threaded or should be threaded into the Retreats it's because it people don't play you know like once we have once we're done being children we're like well players for children and then if you're around children obviously they're playing and you're playing with them but as adults without the in participation kids around play is very rare and it is such like an open-hearted state of just creativity actually without judgment it's not a painting it's not a musical instrument it's nothing that I'm creating that's tangible and yet like my movement and my play and my laughter and my silliness is absolutely infectious to the people around me and it allows them to do their thing even more and then we kind of bounce off each other back and forth it's really a wonderful place to be in actually well I think part of that in everyday just in the everyday is that you know as adults we have a lot of Associates sure we have a lot of colleagues we have a lot of acquaintances we don't really always have a lot of friends um and I know you know you've you've been lucky enough in in your life I think to cultivate some pretty close friendship relationships um but a lot of people who are like busy professional individuals in the city I don't think they really have that many close genuine friendships um people that they can turn to with the kind of stuff that we were talking about you know like deep relationship issues deep vulnerability issues that that people are even comfortable talking about like even if they go out to for a drink with their friends you know one of my greatest um one of my greatest Inspirations for also doing work like this is just kind of observing and witnessing what type of conversations people have in Social gatherings in the everyday world and usually not to be overly judgmental although usually a lot of those conversations are boring as [...] you know like they are you know they're topical they're political they're news based they're TV based they're well this is what my kids are doing right about like what do you think happens when you die like what are you like what's your greatest aspiration in life like what do you what could you go back and do differently what do you most want to forgive yourself for you know like these these sorts of conversations that open up doors that have been welded Shut by suppression inside of your mind you know um and so to be able to cultivate a space like that um for all people is I think it's really like that's healing work yeah you know and again we should mention you know one of the other activities we did um yeah finished finished the itinerary you know yeah so we did you know one one full day you know was the breath work was she well every morning was Qigong cacao breath work um one day we did we did a couple hours of partnered Reiki work which was fascinating to see again just how these lay people could serve as conduits for Universal healing energy from the universe through their body into their partners and to see the very visceral and emotional reactions that some of them were having just by going through that and what they were able to perceive from their Partners you know people discovering the level of their of their empathic power um the shamanic journeying sort of giving some fairly deep insight into the capacity for people's ability to enter non-ordinary states of reality and use those spaces as points of observation yeah lesson learning for their own psyche um and then the following day after the morning routines of Qigong and breath work uh we had my my thing that I really wanted to do which was a plunge into Lake Michigan which from those people who are not in the U.S Lake Michigan at this point is very very cold I think it was in the upper 30s probably oh okay so not very very cold we didn't have to break any ice let's say that much but you ain't swimming in that Lake no it was I mean I I honestly when we were walking back to the house after jumping in the water my feet were frozen solid and I'd somewhat accepted that if I was going to lose a toe it's just what was going to happen luckily Altos remain but you know uh hold work uh cold exposure therapy has been a transformative part of my physical and spiritual status um I I credit consistent cold exposure with helping to awaken a very deep Fire Within me uh which has helped me to feel and experience very intense states of Joy Bliss dare I say like non-duality um just through the through the rush uh that comes from from the exposure as well as the uh sense of self that comes from the from the feeling of self-development and pride in doing and doing difficult things um and so it was uh it's something that I try to get many of my clients to do uh just for their own metabolic and mental health and so it was very important for me uh to be able to do that in a natural environment to get people to really face a level of fear and discomfort um that I knew would be terrifying for them as it was for me I wasn't looking forward to it even though I was looking forward to it but to be able to face face this benevolent opponent um as a group um was probably one of the most bonding experiences we had on the trip you know uh you imagine all all eight of us walking down you know to the windy stormy waters of Lake Michigan and the you know in the end of March and you know the wind was blowing so hard we could barely hear each other and we all stripped down to our underwear or our bathing suits and ran out there you know screaming arms waving in the air you know like we're you know taking the beach you know and we jumped in there and we rejoiced in it you know we all had a good time we laughed we screamed we hated it we loved it and I don't think any person regretted it for one minute and then after that we felt high all day long like the endorphins the adrenaline the dopamine we were we were like giggly like eight-year-olds for the rest of the day you know which was not necessarily super conducive to the work I wanted to do afterwards which was um the work of trying to engage what I call like meaningful or purposeful confrontation um this understanding that within each of us one of the basic archetypes that exists within each individual man or woman is that of a warrior uh and the warrior is called to uh summon up righteous rage within them to stand up for what they know is right to stand up for the good of others to stand up to protect others who can't protect themselves and also to stand up for themselves and their own boundaries and their own their own sense of self um so you know we'd come up with a couple different exercises to help individuals face confrontation and summon up their own inner righteous righteous rage and then be able to consciously descend it as well um I think in the future we'll do that before the cold exposure so that we have a little bit more of that of that um you know it's a learning experience for a learning experience yeah everybody you know you know we're trying our best we're doing it we're doing what we can over here but again at the same time no failures because no being in a super joyful and bonded State while staring down and wrestling your brother just means that ends up turning into play right you know and when you play you connect when you laugh you heal you have a good time you have fun and that's still served it's a very very deep purpose of you know we can goof around and be funny we can goof around and like you know push each other around and get our heart rate up without taking things personally actively you know making each other healthier happier human beings through different forms of interaction and contact and touch and then again I asked you know I reflect like how often on a daily basis do does the average guy between the ages of 35 and you know 45 have the opportunity to do that in a non-competitive environment like sure you might go to a jiu jitsu class or well let's just open that up even a little bit more how much does a a male have the opportunity to touch another male in a non-competitive way if they're not related or even if they are really you know you know what I'm saying like it it does handshake that's one maybe a pat on the back what's up bro right a little fist bump you it it's not but even but even more I mean it's a little bit more accepted amongst women but just in people in general we at least in in this culture in the US Europe's a little bit better you know some parts of India and the Middle East are also better about it but just touch in general we don't touch each other yeah you know we're very kind of like yeah ah I mean I'm a hugger you know I hug I hug everyone and I encourage everyone to hug everyone else and when I when I hug someone it's not for two seconds it's not for three seconds you're gonna feel me exhale like and sink into your body and I think something an energy that permeated the space throughout the whole weekend was hug your brother you're like really hug them put your heart next to their heart push it against there and take a couple slow deep breaths you know and you know on that note like you know we're we're primates you know sure and when you look at you know simpler or you know you know less evolved primate societies you know we we bond by grooming one another and we now I was just gonna say pick the fleas out of each other's heads and then we eat them you know or whatever you know protein man yeah but it's like and and it's the ones that don't get touched it's the ones that don't get included in the massage Circle that are anti-social anxious and depressed and that end up causing harm you know to either themselves or others that's what we didn't have we didn't have a massage Circle not this time we're learning okay um but but yeah I mean that's that's the thing it's like you know contact it's the healing touch yeah you know and healing touch sometimes is having a friendly sparring session with your brother sometimes healing touches having your brother hold your hand and like you know help you feel your feelings when they're bottled up inside of you you know and sometimes it's just like sometimes it's a pile on because someone needs to have a good laugh and get their ass beat a little bit you know but sometimes it's footsie under the table sometimes it puts into the table I feel like I'm playing footsie with you under the table right now sure yeah that's why virtual assistant you know so let me um as we kind of move into like the last little chunk of our time here Christian you know you can definitely um start what were what are what were what are some of your kind of like main takeaways that you would you know share with somebody who might hear this and might think of you know a retreat with us or a retreat in general or something that you took away that that you know you felt is you know worth sharing based on on our experience doing this this past weekend and based on your kind of you know sort of longer term uh intentions for for doing this on a more regular basis well um you know I'm thinking that's one of the one of the participants um you know basically saying that he knew he was coming on a healing retreat but he didn't really know what that meant and he had no idea that he was gonna get out of it what he got out of it and I think you know what he got out of it and you know I'll hopefully not project too much but what he got out of it was you know being able to really see himself in a new light which was for him the ability to remove um I don't know he said it this way but this is my interpretation remove the state of victim victimhood from his existence from and from his from his emotional expression and to move into a greater state of of self-embodiment and salt Mastery understanding that you know he you me all of us are all on a life journey and that we can live a life Journey blaming others for what we perceive them to have done to us or we can understand that each of us is learning our lessons in our own way you know and and so what that really shows me is that no matter how evolved we are no matter how old we are we really stand on the precipice of still becoming our best selves and there's always more layers of our self-awareness that we can get through or more layers of filters that are blinding us from our self-awareness that we can get to to be I don't want to say necessarily happier because life isn't just about wanting to be happy right but to be more whole which gives us the opportunity to experience happiness at a deeper level and the ability to make more meaning out of sadness and grief when it comes our way I think it's a sense of Freedom you know that you're able to move through even sadness even anger even whatever you're able to move through them more easily without feeling like that's the last uh emotional stage you're ever going to be in yeah you know and so people try and like they do the happiness thing which is which is good and everything but then they only try and remain there right and then everything else is to be completely avoided but if you're Freer of these kind of like identifications with everything that you're you're part of you'll know that you can be sad for a bit and then you'll come out of it the other side having gone through something learn something and now you're better for it so the next time that it comes around because it will that you're not gonna be um subject to the same amount of suffering that you had previously because you've learned and one of you know one of the things for me that I wrote down here that we talked about over the weekend is seeing your experiences or your addictions as teachers not as bullies or not as you know things to be completely avoided and you know one of the things one of the nice things about a retreat uh and about our Retreat is that you have the space to be with it but not like in a in an intense phase all the time so if you go for a Psychotherapy and there's nothing wrong with that but then like you're just like you dip you just drop right into your [...] you know like you know what you're going there for and it's and it's bold to be able to do that on a regular basis I I agree um but it is nice to be able to kind of come in and out of it to integrate the depths of your experience when you're in a more comfortable spot and then learn those lessons and then go back in and then like you said have your perspective be such that you're not bound to um only one particular side of the coin you know one particular side of the eye you can have all of it actually well I think you know in plant medicine ceremonies you always go in with an intention but your intention doesn't necessarily dictate the lesson that you're going to take from The Experience right which is why frequently my my intentions are to just be open to what the medicine needs to show me and so you know to go on to go on a retreat like this or like what we did is to open yourself up to the unknown in order to open up open yourself up to what more depth is there to me that I just wasn't exploring right how much more embodied can I be in my physical and spiritual self right um and then ultimately you know I come back always to being on a path of service how can I be of Greater service to those around me while also being in a balanced service of myself um and I I think you know again the trick there being the balance I think a lot of balance or a lot of Life pulls us out of balance it can make us feel selfish in retaliation to the selflessness it can make us forget about ourselves as we commit fully to other people because of issues with boundaries or whatever it might be you know so going on a retreat uh helps you to realign your balance and reconnect to your purpose so that you can do what you're here to do from a more wholesome and meaningful place inside of you yeah yeah no I think that's I think that's true yeah and it's it's um it's just a unique opportunity you know like I've been on many Retreats I've led many Retreats and even if they're similar they're different even if it's the exact same teacher and the exact same material it's different because the person is is growing they've grown between the last time and now the teacher has grown between the last time and now and I think sometimes we forget that like people who are leading these Retreats whoever they are they're also on their own path oh yeah you know they're they're growing and I know that you know one of the things that I took away from this weekend was the amount of positive feedback from everybody on how inspirational you know I slash we were to them on their path because even if you're quote unquote in the in the teacher seat you know and you're supposed to be the one that knows stuff right you don't we don't know everything number one but I think what what allows us to at least sit in that position for a few minutes during you know during a podcast or during a retreat or during you know teaching whatever to whomever is that our desire to learn and to integrate that learning through sharing and through experiment personal experimentation is the is the difference you know and so anybody could really be in that seat so long as that they're willing to do that work themselves and I think the hope is for me is to be inspirational for people to do whatever it is that comes naturally to them creatively you know in some sense because for me being creative is kind of like the ultimate form of being in flow is the kind of the ultimate expression of of you connecting to your own doubt to your own deepest nature to the nature to God to whatever it is you know but it comes through you if in in your own unique way even if both you and I are um you know doing some watercolors you know the way that you're going to do it is going to be the different in the way that I'm going to do it but we do it in the way that is both natural to us and the fact that we feel inspired to do it that's the bigger point to me not on how it ends up looking on a page to for somebody else to judge you know and I and I really feel like playing and laughing and going through initiations or experiences together allows for that state to really kind of be uh cultivated you know I think the initiation thing is significant and the right you know we haven't even mentioned the concept of rite of passage um which in some form I know that we went through several Rites of Passage working hard to put yourself into a peak State coming out the other end and having having the like Downstream effects of that that's the rite of passage you know running into the freezing cold water of Lake Michigan at the end of winter with a bunch of other crazy men that's a rite of passage you doing rape which we haven't mentioned you know like snorting ceremonial snuff is a rite of passage um but ultimately I think also like you know every single one of the people who were there on this Retreat you and I included changed we all leveled up we all became slightly more refined versions of ourselves and a never-ending process of refinement we became slightly more refined and leveling up means something different to everyone because everyone's on a slightly different but very similar Journey you know so if you what you can basically be guaranteed about coming on a retreat with URI or other competent facilitators is that you're going to get the opportunity to level up and the part of that leveling up it means facing the things inside of you around you emotional physical whatever that we're holding you back from that level in leveling up experience and embracing the unknown yes even if you get an itinerary from your retreat leader it might change yeah you could totally have a description of a particular uh I don't know event or you know whatever it is right but that doesn't mean that you know what's going to happen you actually have to do it and go through it and know what it was and and like accepting that you can't project what it's going to be allows you to be in a space of openness when there is no ground when there is only kind of like potential and some chaos and some beauty in this beautiful kind of crossing point that you're walking right towards you know and we just don't have that opportunity so much so um you know amongst all the other intentions because you asked me earlier what is my one of my intentions to be and of course you know one of my intentions is always to be inspirational and so I'm hoping that through our you know sharing of our experience as the as the retreat leaders but then sharing some of the experiences of the people who came to us that we can motivate people um to take that leap you know yeah absolutely whomever it doesn't matter just do it I mean and so we should you know again probably state that part part of where all this is going as this was just you know I said to you at the at the end when we were closing and I touched your forehead to my forehead very very gingerly I said this is just the beginning yeah you know and and that's true I mean it's always it's always the beginning of some kind of unfolding um but where this is going as we were just discussing is you know expanding the opportunity for you know men's groups to meet you know like we'll be now hosting a monthly men's group together uh which will evolve in all sorts of unpredictable ways you know to provide a space for connectivity for expression for creativity for boundary reshaping um and then you know that will open up the experience the possibility for deeper experiences for people to come on more Retreats and then also provide the opportunity for not just men's groups but you know collaborative multi-gendered you know experiential um uplifting experiences to bring us all together on a deeper level yeah and for people who are you know interested I think we we haven't discussed it so we're just sort of spitballing at this point but we could certainly you know we want to do these in person but you know I know we do have an international audience and we have uh you know some part of our audience that's kind of all around the US and you know given the the wonderful connectivity that we have via the Internet that we could certainly provide um people with you know internet access to what it is that we're doing as well if they can't be there in person um we could certainly work that out but for those people who are interested and want to you know be put on our on that mailing list for that please feel free to uh you know hit me up at gin and Tantra gmail.com or leave a comment in the YouTube section or you know but probably email is the best to be honest but you know go ahead and leave a like let's get hit the Subscribe button you know share uh if you you're share in a sharing mood and share even if you're not in a sharing mood it doesn't matter you do it anyways if you're on listening to us through Apple you can leave us a review I don't even know if Spotify does that or not but you know I know Apple for sure does or you know simultaneously if you know anybody who might be interested in in a men's Retreat or just retreats in general then you know share this episode with us um and if you're interested in uh getting a hold of Christian just leave I'll I'll leave his uh information in the description of the podcast and so that they could uh get a hold of you if no they want to you know work with you or hear more about what it is that you're doing or whatever the case is but as always you know I will provide people updates with what I'm doing because this podcast is uh run by myself so well and Eric of course but you know we always share what it is that we're doing because you know like I mentioned earlier part of what we're doing is trying to give people the option to do something different with their lives you know and not necessarily follow this you know repetitive work that you can make your life whatever you want it to be and if that's running Retreats or helping people heal or you know being a coach of some type or you know whatever a guide in in people's lives and you know you have the opportunity to do that and um you know we certainly love what other people do because it it strengthens the field that we are working within and uh makes it such that like our work is not so out of left field but actually probably more integral to society than I think we might even give it credit for actually it's the age of Aquarius man that's it let's do it yeah um any any parting parting shots for you my friend before we before we wrap up here no just a lot of gratitude to you for going on this journey with me you know um I've literally reached out like a like a shot in the dark and you know you showed up and ways that I could not have expected anymore and I'm just really grateful for you no well I thank you for for heeding the call that was you know inside of you to to begin this journey and um I'm happy to be doing it and I'm happy to be to have you on the on the show here and and share with people and you know even if you're not interested in what we're doing now maybe you know somebody else who might be so you know share and share a like and uh we'll keep doing what it is that we're doing and um I appreciate everybody for listening for Christian this is Daniel we'll catch y'all in the next one peace