[Music] ay and tears those of us who like our spirituality with a Twist so we're still chopping away at our nine things that will [...] up your life we took this little detour to talk about what are these things [...] up what are these things obstacles towards and we've been kind of like uh exploring different aspects of that last episode I want we also had done these things of talking about meditative techniques and one of ones we had mentioned was meditating on letters and we had taken that chance to talk a little cabala which we haven't done too much of not really yeah not too much so that's kind of waiting in the offering to do which I mean just shows you goes to show you how rich these subject matters are we haven't even scratched to the surface going going at this for some years now um but I said I was going to do meditation on the 72 names of God I was planning on doing that which is one of these cabalistic meditation we meditate on letters and the sequences of letters that are sort of encoded in The Parting of the Red Sea story and so I did it and I was going to share uh our meditative experiences so this is like sharing a meditative Experience episode in a way but also kind of I think to my mind connected back to the nine obstructions or the nine things that will [...] up your life um so anyways I was doing it Daniel I didn't do it exactly in the window I wanted to do it I was going to time it up with the calendar a little bit better but it didn't work out so perfect I just had like I couldn't do it in that window of time but I did get to it and I hadn't done them in a while as seriously as I was going to do it now I have done different kinds of cabalistic met letter meditations over the years I got we both love meditation so if there's a way to do it I'll do it and I'll see what it does but this particular one I hadn't done in a little bit so I had a very interesting experience I started to do it you do these little trios of letters um uh Hebrew AR make letters and they just come in these little sets of three and like we talked about there's these kind of head motions that go along with each of the letters depending on the vowel sound of the letter so that's kind of the gist of how the meditation works and I was using sort of one of the Madonna cabala books which I don't always do they kind of just show the sequences each one you turn a page they'll give you another one of the trios and it's kind of an interesting take because it ties to tap into as we talked about in the other episode it tries to talk tap into issues you might have in your life so I have where I focused in on one particular one because I felt like oh this isn't this is a problematic point this Trio of letters addresses this so let me do that that's an interesting experience but this is just more like doing all of them so you do all the the 72 things like in this sequence takes maybe depends on how fast you do it maybe takes an hour and a half maybe if it go if you go long or something but I probably did a little bit faster anyways it's a kind of a Prof experience because I haven't done I haden't done it in a while and so I started off and they create a kind of an interesting thing where you almost feel this immediate influx that comes in they have some word for that the cabala this feeling of influx so you really feel like this energy kind of pours into you and it happened like pretty quickly you know I got like a couple of the sequences in and it was like I felt this thing and it felt like it wanted to like clarify my mind very much so like it was trying to create inner Clarity in a very strong way and I was going through and I was looking at again my little Madonna cabala book as I was turning the pages to do each letter and I would sort of like skim a little bit what each letter was supposed to be about I kind of know them but it was something where I was like looking at them again for the first time in a long time and the interesting experience I wanted to share for the podcast is what jumped out at me you know I got the influx and it was like oh my mind's getting very clear powerful and I you know as I was going through I was looking at I was going a lot of these things have to do with feelings of guilt shame self- reproach and I was doing them and I thought God I'm not feeling those things at all now and I tried to flash back I guess when I was doing those meditations all the time and I don't remember that jumping out at me so prominently it must have felt more natural at the time or something but I was doing that thought like I'm not feeling in my life I don't feel those things and I thought well that's curious you know why is that like that and I continued on through the sequences and I can't remember if it hit me while I was doing the meditation maybe it did but I started thinking okay why don't I feel these things why don't I feel these really like guilts and shames is what I wanted to throw out as an episode subject matter and I thought you know the reason why is because I've clarified aspects of myself and how I think about the world and so I don't have those same guilts and shames because I'm just more honest with the world and with people and so I had this realization that the reason why I was having those feelings before usually had to do with something where I just wasn't being honest with myself and others I wasn't being we could use our favorite word authentic but I just wasn't being real and some of that was more in my personal life we've talked about these kinds of things a lot and my feeling of like liking the uniqueness thing I don't necessarily believe in you know uh standard you know relationship model exclusive it monogamy things and that was a big subject matter last year for us so some of it had to do with that some of it had to do with other things I realized like no I'm very I don't have that same feelings of like G shame and guilt and bad feelings just because I'm just much more straight and authentic in who I am and I think there was sort of a process of me getting to be that but I just found that to be like incredibly interesting and it made me start thinking about how much guilt and shame people carry so I'll throw it back to you I know what do you think of the experience I just you know you can kind of tell me what you think not yeah so I feel like more but it was interesting for me yeah so thanks for sharing I think it's an interesting uh place to start you know and we can you know you've done this practice uh as well as I have there are some introductory practices in you know Tibetan Buddhism where they work on purification as like the beginning not the not the very beginning but everything has some level of purification on it right so and and I think for those who have absolutely no familiarity with what I'm saying it's as if like before you go to bed and if you've had a long day you probably take a shower right you're sweaty you're gonna right or if you're going to um have a good night of sexy time with your partner whoever your partner may be we don't know Partners they're not see that's that's that's that's not exclusive it's very unique we have to say that you know what I mean that's right we should I would like I would love to say that go to bed with my partners my new friends shout to my poly friends right that's right shout out to my partners um you know you would probably I hope take a take a shower you know clean up a little bit right yeah it's an eate and politeness thing and yeah there you go and and makes you're more attractive makes you're more attrative sure and and so you know in in this way then when a person is you know moving down a spiritual path a lot of times the beginning practices are are purification type practices um and one of the ones that you and I both have done uh also have this purification aspect to it and for myself personally when I started you know doing those things I wanted to focus on things that I was to forgive people actions inactions right I know we talked long ago about it kind of like got your eyebrows to raise I said I had I had regret over things not that I did do but that in my life that I didn't you know and and in in the process of doing that kind of purification practice practices a lot of it was dealing with you know shame and guilt from things that I had done done and so asking for forgiveness for myself and eventually I got to a point where like I was having to really dig much more deeply to find things to where it became almost a distraction because I was like ah this stuff should come to the surface and in the beginning it totally did like how you were saying like it totally was like you're overwhelmed you're like oh man I'm [...] up all the time like holy [...] this is a super long list I'll never be done with this you know um and then as you go on you start to go oh you know what this person did something to me that I I felt bad I'm going to forgive them you know oh maybe they felt bad I I I want to forgive whatever it is that they got going on I hope that I hope that helps them I want to lift their their guilt you know I hope that happens I hope that you know and so you start to work on this kind of compassionate thing and I'm going to finish this and I'm going to relate to something that that I thought was super interesting over the weekend that I had conversation with someone that I had that relates to this but as I started to move on I started to to forgive more my my forgiveness was for other people more and more and more Right Stuff my own stuff would come of course because I don't want to just totally make this about other people and go oh well I'm a saint so you know no problem I'm good like that's you know spiritual materialistic at his materialistic um whatever at his best you know what I'm saying the ego pops up and goes oh yeah we're good let's help everyone else you know what I'm saying like it's compassion but it's also um you know leaving abandoning yourself in the same uh process you know so I wanted to give you a chance to you know say whatever so oh okay you want to do that response before you clip to yeah okay yeah well you know the thing that really hit me when I was looking at for myself and it made me wonder how often people feel this way was just I think the problem that I had before and maybe we'll Bounce Around in these different issues as we go through sure but the problem I had before for was more that I wasn't being real enough with myself and others so I'd find myself in situations where I felt like you know like I'm cringing now as I'm trying to like go back to these feelings where I just wasn't being as true to who I am whether that was in you know aspects of my personal life or aspects in other parts of my life I wasn't being it took a while it takes a while to do this it's a process right and and I you know I wasn't I wasn't yeah I wasn't being true to who I was so I find myself in situations where I was like uh you know there's a conflict between how I real really feel and how I'm acting or there's a conflict between where I really want to go with things and how I'm handling this part of my life whatever that might be or I'm interacting with you know some family member but I'm not really being Who I Am with them and we're not really being honest with one other so it's not working everything had this grind to it and I think what hit me in doing the meditation like of this thing that I hadn't done for a while and really looking at them again and having all these overcoming these bad feelings overcoming these bad things especially about the self were there and I was like yeah I think that's the big difference I I wasn't being real I wasn't being true we can use our authentic word or whatever I wasn't being that way so I always would find myself in these situations where I'd be like H you know I'm like well Eric I feel bad I would feel bad about because you know I I was torn in what I was doing and I would feel like I just wasn't being myself well that's that's an interesting experience for me I was like okay wow that's weird you could see the the contrast effect you know right before I obviously felt like I wasn't being real and now I do but that's a that's a uh a continuation of what we discussed last week right the idea of emotional plague creating this false sense of self I think that's where I was going with it right now we can go other directions with it for sure you know because sometimes there are things that you have regret about you're like I didn't handle that situation right we all have those things totally totally but that's about the inuence part yeah right that's that I was going to say that's a different thing of like the the sense of like inter congruency between you and yourself and then you accepting that you are a ever growing and evolving creature who could do things better even seconds after you just did them you learn from that like instantaneously you're like oh [...] I could have do that I could do that better I could in fact I could do it better right now like right like we can we do it again you know like I find myself in you know sometimes in you know in discussions with uh my partner or or friends you know like we'll be in you know discussion having a disagreement or whatever and I'm just like oh I I I didn't do that well I I really didn't do it that well and so sometimes I'll catch it right away and if you know whatever I'll send a message or I'll be like you know what I [...] that up actually like I didn't I didn't mean what I said was coming from a I I didn't put that the right way or whatever right yeah exactly like it just didn't come out right so I think that's uh that's a good that's a good reflection you know from from last week's discussion yeah I would no way and say that I do everything perfect hell's no but but it is interesting in the sense of like there was like a a definitely like a kind of a an underlying pattern thing where if I had to do a purification thing and I if I looked back and boil it down it was usually because I just wasn't being I wasn't being congruent with myself and therefore I wasn't being congruent with the environment and then I would feel like you know things would go not right sure and then and so that's I it just made me think of like I get I wonder how often people feel that way know walking around with sort of that feeling of like guilt and shame right because what what what the real problem is is that you're not being who you are that's the emotional plague and that all that kind of stuff that Reich was talking about and Carl Rogers and all these psychologists so I saw the connection that's the reason I was gonna bring it up in the episode last week you yeah but I was like yeah and so as I grew over this period of time which is probably I don't know 17 years or something like that you know not that I gave up on doing calistic things along the way but there was obviously I haven't done it for a while and the thing was striking I grew into who I was I grew into like okay I'm a Buddhist Tanta these are my values I'm like I've broken away from things that I would otherwise feel inauthentic with other people about I'm much more genuine I think so I feel less of those moments of like oh I [...] this up I don't even feel as much of that though of course we still do and then usually I'll go like hey [...] it up sorry you know but even that it's like less of it because I feel like at least of the things that are serious because it's like I'm just there's just more much more internal congruence so I can be more congruent with the environment but the big shock was retrospectively when I look back at it why was I feeling those what would be the thing situations where I would be feeling those things that obviously these letters talking about this these meditations even talking about those emotions they felt very natural to me I suppose at the time right so what's the difference and I was like okay it seems like I'm just much more of a because I'm more congruent with myself I don't have to be inauthentic to a partner or to you know uh other people in the environment I'm just much more straight you know maybe think of like the shame and the guilt thing and how often that like maybe stems out of this like inner in congruence that leads you into situations where I'm not really being honest with how I am with this person I'm not being honest with how I really feel about like this part of my work or what you know you feel these like and that like I think leads to those feelings of Shame and guilt does that make a psychological sense what I'm trying to say yeah yeah so you feel this thing of like okay I'm not being authentic I haven't told this person the truth of what I actually feel I was talking with another person I know about this and I said I would reference him but I won't I won't even say his name but he was saying yeah you know he he kind of got it he was like yeah there's something about that you know and he saids I'm trying to do that more I'm trying to be more honest myself so I don't find myself in those like situations where I feel you know just breaking out of Shame and guilt just in general is such a good thing to be able to do you know I was part of that for me was also like I kind of accepted my little Buddhist tantric identity you know and I realized like okay some of the things that otherwise maybe I would people would tell me I supposed to feel shame or guilt about I don't anymore I'm not going feel shame and guilt to all those things let this go so it's a big change you know over the course of the years and the meditation was still powerful it wasn't like it wasn't doing its magic it still was it was just having a different effect yeah so I know what do you think about the shame and guilt thing in terms of the nine obstacles where does it fit yeah I thought like in part it's like in the mischievous Minds part which we've been trying to talk about so that's why I wanted to bring it up yeah yeah it kind of fits within that but it's not obviously anywhere but I begin to think it kind of permeates maybe through a lot of them it it permeates through a lot of them I mean you you know like when they they talk about this uh when the burdens of karma are great you will need to repay what you have owed in previous lifetimes and and I don't you know there's there's a couple different ways that we we've taken that that conversation you know or that that that paragraph um but you know you you took that one as like uh what you try to said time for your cultivation your aging parents will make you feel guilty about abandoning them although you want to cultivate you're unable to find the time being smothered by parental demands is a second obstacle so that one straight up says guilt right in it you know I think it's like I think it's in the you can feel guilt in front of your family you can feel guilt in front of your partner Partners family your current family now in front of your kids guilt in front of your work I didn't do enough I didn't whatever you can be self- reproaching about that like a lot of these things I think it kind of like filters through as these toxic emotions that are kind of just like sliding through all over the place kind of yeah and then you know so there's that's kind of like the love and family work stuff then there's also the the one that we did a little while back talking about material goods and fame it said when you are rich and Powerful you find it difficult to give up material goods and fame not being content with what you have you will always want more so therefore your suffering you know your longing and inherent in that at least in my herview is the shame of not having those things because that's the that's the inverted guilt of desire right that you don't have it therefore I want it I'm I'm I'm not full unless I have those things and you can I mean I think we could easily make the leap a logical one for the sake of argument that shame is inherent in that right that you're like embarrassment or something sure yeah I mean what however you want to do it but it's a it's a it's a recoil and then the response to that like energetic recoil that I don't have enough I'm embarrassed I need more is to then reach right and something someone over the weekend about this where and I was trying to like talk her through it but she was basically saying like she feels the way I interpreted I don't know if she would but the way I looked at it is like she felt like she wasn't as successful as her siblings so she's very successful but she was comparing herself to her siblings and she felt kind of embarrassed that she wasn't as successful as The Sibling you know and I was like okay that's a kind of a variation on these kinds of feelings too right but where you going with the sh The Shame of the longing for it let me make sure I get you know like the en okay so if you so we are a and I was just having this conversation with the patient today she's Hungarian uh she's in this lives in this country now but that [Music] like it even in even in Europe and even in you know because we have some you know probably about a quarter to a third of our audience is international some in Europe some some in South America but for modernized Western esque cultures it's a it's similar it's similar cultures are a little bit different languages are different foods are different okay fine you know whatever but generally it's a very similar sort of work grind to the wherever the top is for you but have some buy some things you like you know what I'm saying yield or or or Market your skills build some skills sell them to somebody sell your time sell okay fine this is the marketplace that it's always been but it's even more so now because the bottom is the bottom is much further down because we are not able to grow our own food we're not able to live off the land like it just that's not going to happen our family might not even take us in if we needed it so you have to really grind actually you you really have to grind on a regular basis but inherent in that inherent as as Robert thma would call it in advertising is a meditation on desire and if you think about marketing and in commercials and and whether they be print or on television or wherever they're all always telling you about a need that you need a need that you don't have something that's going to make you better maybe like an inadequacy or something or sure if they're selling beauty products or clothing absolutely or the new stylish thing you know like someone snaps a finger and someone goes for being dressed like a homeless person to a you know rich guy with a suit on and now all of a sudden you know he's getting all the chicks or dudes or whatever he's into you know what I'm saying and so it makes you feel like you're not enough and at least in my mind when you to that when you're not enough that shame around that inadequacy yeah yeah exactly that you're not enough so therefore you are not full so you need this thing that I have but until you have this thing that I'm going to sell you or whatever you know there is there is a bit of a a a a latency Gap you know before you have it and then until you get it and in that latency Gap is you and your shame for not having it what the [...] is wrong with you here let me help you Levis get that ass right you know or I don't know I don't think that's their motto but like you know I their motto is get that ass right right but okay maybe you know apple bottom jeans from back in the day you know Nelly's clothing brand or something like this you know what I'm saying um so that that that's how I take that you know that's how I would say that that is yeah there's there's a truth in that right that you can feel kind of uh a shame of inadequacy right shame of not like having what you're supposed to have or something you to feel good about yourself or something it's kind of like a shame almost of like you're not good enough right I mean that's right and it's such a it's such an innate human thing or at least modern human thing that's why you know flexing on Instagram is popular you know right everybody wants this that that thing and so they're able to Parlay that into likes and followers which they can then what sell advertising that's how you make your money so the thing that got me about it like okay so since we really got like a couple of propositions of what these things are obstacles to they're obstacles to like am I changing the subject matter before I before I should no you're good okay so there I mean I want I'm curious what you think because there are obstacles to a certain kind of psychospiritual development we've tried to use different words for this Carl Rogers words right authenticity will Reich you get out of the emotional plague you learn how to love you learn how to give you learn how to share you know in different ways right that's more his view of human nature at the core right um or you know Carl Yong his individuation idea so we throw these different psych ideas out Eric is is that what you before As you move into that I just want to ask for because it was earlier on my mind when when when you you know when you would say like shame and guilt as a result of those things uhhuh what you know just briefly unless you're going to go there and open it up because I don't know exactly where you're heading would you say that those are some antidotes to deal with that because we're talking about it but I wanted to give people at least some taste who are you know for our audience who listening I mean I suppose for me like I guess the point I was trying to make was I'd done these meditations before when talk about these negative feelings I was I was feeling them you know I did it again I still thought the meditation worked I felt the influx right and it was very clarify but at the end I realized like well I don't feel these shames and guilts and I I would feel those things before and I would do purification practices and I would feel them I was like so what's the difference and the thing that seemed to fix it was I'm more real now so I don't find myself in situations where I'm like where I feel uh awkward or like I feel like I'm you know uh doing something that's not true to others because I'm not being true to myself which I think that's what that how I would find myself in I wasn't being true to myself enough so I wouldn't be able to be true to others enough and then I would feel uncomfortable or bad about the situations but as I got more real for myself and really more embodied the personal identity and maybe the psychospiritual identity you know that I wanted more then I just find myself not in these situations and so I don't I don't feel bad about stuff and I guess I'm presenting that as kind of an antidote so so your I got the less I and more I real I got with other people the less I find myself in situations I'd have to feel bad about got it so you're you're saying for people to be or to try and work on their own sense of authenticity and internal congruency as a means to sort of even out this this sense of Shame and guilt that they might have if they are not uh acting in accordance to their own internal Compass or something like that but also like you know when you're more congruent with yourself and you make the like the point of like I'm going to be honest and congruent with others which is hard that's very hard right I I mean I think that's part of the picture too for at least you know my experience of this and other people can contemplate for themselves you realize like well I'm not really being straight with this partner what I'm really feeling is not what I really feel or how I'm you know it's not this isn't real I'm not being real with a friend I'm not being with a family member like you find yourself in situations that are more uncomfortable because they're just you know again they lack that genuin or authenticity because you're out of harmony with yourself and you're not being harmonious with other people and then those awkward situations show up and then you feel like oh I wish I would have handled that differently or handled that better or uh yeah I handled this whole series of things wrong but when you when I at least for me as I was self-reflecting on this after doing this particular meditative thing and really feeling the difference it was because yeah there was a whole congruency problem and in congruency with myself and therefore right right others and it's [...] it's kind of like it maybe Wonder like okay is that a cure to some of this but it's hard you have to be honest with yourself and you have to be with other people it's kind of like being a out of key instrument in an orchestra you know it doesn't it doesn't work yeah yeah it's like sounding Out yeah but I mean I mean how often are people I mean like we could be honest about it how often are people feeling this way you know I was talking with the guy I was talking with today he was like well yeah I mean I have to be more hon honest with my partner and say how I really feel about things you know and not be disingenuous us about that or have to be more honest with friends or family we were just talking about this whole issue and then all of a sudden these situations aren't as cringey yeah I think I think there's a there's a and I've never read it so if if some of our audience has read it you know feel free to correct me in the comments or or via scathing email at Jin and Tantra gmail.com you know that was a subtle drop um no but I think there there's a book uh friend of mine uh it leads a men's group kind of based around this work called no more and Mr Nice Guy that's the name of the book um and I think that go that's going into that that what they're talking about in that in that work is that these people are the men in this particular case are being the nice guy but they're not being themselves and that then leads to other issues further down the road because that's not who they are yeah they're a nice person but they're also not being real you know they're they're being corrected the situation and what they think should be but not what is yeah my only experience of that is more like matching up with what Reich is talking about the more I felt like I was being myself actually the better I got yeah more generous more loving more whatever like it actually got better and I would found myself in less situations where I was like H you know um where I would look back at myself and like I don't like the way I'm acting in this situation but it more had to do with my own lack of internal thing and then lack of it with other people that You' find yourself in things that were awkward I think people are lying to each other all the time let's be honest I think people each other all the time so then what do you Eric what do you think then you know because like we want to be um beneficial for the people who are listening and I'll ask you and then I'll answer like the answer is it's a process first and then I'll ask the question what do you think goes into increasing your own internal congruency right so we're talking about being more in line with your authentic self more in line with who you are right but that's a pro like I said the answer is it's a process but you know just for yourself you did you have this meditation some other meditations but you know what else do you think you know that you have experience that has helped you has been useful for you in this kind of in this window you know what I'm saying that has helped you to feel like oh yeah this is me this that this seems how I feel too you know what I'm saying it's not just a teach that you've read but that something that you've taken in is like oh wait a minute no that's also me that [...] is not but that stuff is and and now I'm putting together my own story for myself but you know yeah I mean I don't know how to answer it without like referencing a lot of the other stuff we've talked about but I was very persuaded by like this Carl Rogers idea like sometimes you have aspects of yourself this self-concept thing that are kind of not you sure and you're putting them out there and then I think there has to be a thing of like starting to recognize that and call that and say no that's not real yeah and then I think I'll try to talk about as many different angles honestly as I can I think part of it was like going okay what do I really spiritually believe in you know and that helped to clarify it and I think as I got more into in in my case the Buddhist tantas I was like okay this is more homebased for me and now I'm going to like I'm I it wasn't in a forced way I'm not going to make myself be this thing because there's parts of the Buddhist Tantra things like I'm not going to follow that for but the general Vibe was in that direction and then then I was like okay so I'm going to start letting my letting my internal World adjust to that you know and starting to be more consistent in in that maybe it's true for a lot of us the two of us and a lot of other people too I wanted to know what was true I had a big thing of deciding what was true and I felt like okay this is more what I think is true or at least true for me I can't say it's true for somebody else um but certainly seems more true to me and then once that was clarifying then I could be more uh I felt more at home and who I was as a spiritual being then too as well as the psychological part yeah and then my values were more congruent with that yeah we congruent a lot I guess today the word yeah yeah letter C was Sesame Street letter C the word is congruent um and or you could play a drinking game have a shot yeah every time we say G it yeah um they'd be they'd be vomiting by at this point Eric you'll be wasted by the end of this yeah 100% like you are but it's like it's that seems to be the word of the day and I was like yeah so I'm gonna like make who I am kind of fit um it wasn't it wasn't forced it was like yeah okay so this is more my vibe yeah and then finding that I didn't have to force maybe it's the opposite I didn't have to force things so much um I found myself in situations where I could be more honest with people okay this is what I think you know and then you find yourself in less situations where you're like H you know uh you know what struck me about this too and I don't know how it fits into exactly the question but it was something I wondered about ever since I was a teenager I had seen Joseph Campbell uh do this thing on channel 11 which is you know public television in Chicago yeah and uh when he went through the Temptations of the Buddha and I was talking with Ryan Davenport about this and he was like oh really that's the third one and I said yeah when they did it uh when Campbell did it he said uh the first one was sort of more having to do with fear big emotion right second one had to do with more like desire and I think it was sort of like especially sexual desire second big Temptation so Buddha is under the tree and then all these horrible looking creatures come he's supposed to be afraid is the you know the the way the story is told but obviously it's about the second one is more about like out ofont control desire if you're a tantrica you're more like desire that has meaning and purpose and Direction but this is sort of more like out of control out ofont control desire but the third one was I I realized this is about guilt this about shame and guilt because the third one is like the voice that says well aren't you disappointing your father obstacle number two aren't you gonna be a disappointment to your wife and your son obstacle number three what about what you're supposed to do for the kingdom and you know whatever maybe that's obstacle number four in your career or something like that you know or whatever you want to make it like he gets he gets pounded by these guilts you know and you know when I thought about myself after doing this particular meditation I was like yeah you know there's something that's such a toxic and Powerful emotion those emotions Skil and shame they're so bad right that that's the third one that's the tough one that's the one that's tougher than the fear tougher than the even desires it's the guilt and the shame one the one that will eat you away and I thought that's interesting you know I thought about that story in a new way I've always thought about that third one it's always resonated with me that Joseph Campbell said it that way if we said it a different way I wouldn't have been as interested in Buddhism but the way he said it like hit home in so many different ways that he felt the you know the societal pressures obviously I had a thing with that but as I was flipping it thinking about now I was thought well that's about guilt a lot you'll disappoint your dad who wants to be the king what about that you know what about the other things that you're supposed to feel guilty about people you're disappointing people who you know are unhappy with what you're doing what about those people don't you feel guilty don't you feel shame so I thought okay yeah I don't feel as much of that and it has to do with the idea of like okay let me let me more explore inside I guess if that's the question you're asking in the beginning so I get a better sense of who this is those things that are false I better start getting rid of them I better get a spiritual reality that I feel good and congruent about something that can follow like if I was still following Christian [...] I'd probably be ashamed all the time but I'm not so I don't feel ashamed you know what I mean I left that stuff I found a spiritual path that was more my own right so now I don't feel like I'm it's forced or I have to feel oh bad I don't feel the Christian enough Catholic feeling that I'm supposed to feel or something because I I left that I checked that out I'm in a I'm in a spiritual head space that's more true to me right so that I don't have to feel bad about that oh I'm being like a bad Catholic you know I don't feel those feelings you know they're gone too because there's a more of a again the congruence H take a shot um but you know you look at that and you're like uh you know maybe those are part of the solutions of how this works right sure and then you have to be honest with the people around you maybe then too which is hard that's very difficult because the people around you may not like what you're saying but that say the truth to other people you know well that's a question for sure is is like what you know what do you tell people who have a you know who are listening to this and have a shift in congruency shot time um you know and then they're like okay they feel more at home within themselves their internal residence is like you know equalized if you will and now the way that they see things is different than those who they have surrounded themselves by or they're in some particular situation and have to you know now share things that are different than they were previously and that their newer thoughts might not resonate well with those in their Inner Circle and that can cause Strife you know it's um you know H how is it that you would think about helping those people and that situation because I think anybody who goes under a process of transformation will do what they seek to transform now how far they get or what what how how even knows what far means in that sense but you're going to be different and the people around you especially as time goes on and you don't see them as much are going to notice your difference even more than than you will probably and your views are going to change and if you're you know we we grew up in you know our families of origin we no longer share their their religious beliefs uh you know and mass of course there are some pieces of course that we you know that translate over over all religions really in my opinion um love and compassion and selflessness and you know whatever but there are going to be other specific specifics especially probably related to like this idea of Shame guilt and some moral things and some maybe chauvinistic things that I'm just like no I don't no sorry and a particular aspects of a story that I'm like I don't need that story to believe the thing you could just tell me this the lesson and I'm I can I'm saying like I don't need all the other hoopla but for a lot of people no no no no no they need that that is that is part of it that is it you cannot remove those things and so now you have interactions with people and even though you're not with animosity inside what you believe and what you're expressing does not uh concur with what they believe and what they're expressing and there can be a total disconnect and even though you are congruent within yourself you have to be able to be comfortable in a situation where others are going to feel in congruent with your new found congruency wow that's a double shot right there yeah double shot for sure yeah hopefully you're drinking that homemade Hooch you made in the bathtub last week you know like uncorking more and more but you but you understand what I'm saying though right yeah no I totally get it and like I mean this is where I mean when when you really think like where the rubber hits the road yeah you know this is where you really have to ask yourself a kind of a deep question of like where do your values lie and for me my values lied in like doing this spiritual thing that's where my values were and have been so it took a bit maybe but I also got to the point where like yeah people are going to fall by the wayside youo and the tantas it's very funny because they have that whole bit of like don't hang around with like those people who are not in the tantric world yeah Yas or whatever right how they phrase it yeah and you know these are like even like other Buddhists right yeah they're they're they're not exactly like a variation on the Buddhist thing right like okay that's pretty tough but like there is something about like you know having the people around you be the actual people who are congruent with who you are at the core of who you are and I don't know what I mean it's a tough call but I mean it it does then the universe is asking a tough question it's basically saying like who are you right yeah and like where do your values lie like if this particular friend doesn't fit into how you think you may not be able to be friends with that person ultimately and I can say as this processes like we'll say process again we won't make another drinking game out of that because that would just be too much yeah that's too much uh you know you want to like alcohol poisoning people yeah for sure but um when you get to like that thing I mean I can think of people who i i people I still say mantras for every day that I'll probably never really have a real conversation with again in my entire life but people who meant something to me very deeply at like one particular point in my life who were not the same anymore it's over you know what I mean yeah and it's not like I don't appreciate and have gratitude for what the person did for me at the time when they were a core part of who I was and the poor part of my life and we were close I mean people really close Daniel you know we like no we don't see the world the same way anymore you're like sorry Mom you're out of here well you know a little bit a little bit I'll still help my mom out but yeah no with my mom it's interesting because my mom I like even with this uniqueness versus exclus my mom knows that I'm like I don't believe in these things intrinsically we talk about that [...] all the time but that's being congruent like it's that I didn't hide that from my mom eventually became a point of conversation I would say well how do you think about your relationship with Dad you feel like it was the right thing to do and she' be like well you know maybe people aren't supposed to be together forever maybe this wasn't that great and we talk honest you know and once the honesty happens I've had it with a number of family members you could tell the people where it's going to stick because eventually you get to an honest place I think my brother would be okay with me talking about this part because he's a very private person but when my uncle was sick a few years ago we spent a lot of time together and we just found this place of like in like Exquisite honesty with one another the [...] fell away and we found it and we don't have to feel the same thing we're not reliant on one another like the way it would be if we were you know romantic Partners or you know we're siblings we can have our differences you know our lives don't maybe impact each other that much you know now in our adult lives but we're [...] honest as can be it's very beautiful you know and you know we were talking about just within the past week or so and we were saying well what happened with our relationship and we both kind of got to this place of agreeing like we got to this place where the [...] fell away you know and now we're honest with one another and now the relationship is great you know because the crapola is gone you know and he can be who he is and I can be who I am and we talk an honest thing with one another I don't know but maybe like maybe you don't feel that as much I feel there's so much [...] between people do you feel that way don't I do so I think I think in in in response to my own prompt about okay you lot to talk about rather than just talking about whether this is [...] yeah well let's hear the whole thing right yeah yeah so what what came to me was um that these are aspects of emancipation yeah I think agree that as you come to a deeper sense of you know connectedness with yourself your actions all the various aspects of yourself you know your feelings your words your actions your thoughts all this kind of stuff we're always I think trying to get those things to be cohesive and that once you are moving in that direction then your beliefs are going to going to change your feelings are going to change your actions your words so on and so forth and that they might not fit with your family of origin or group of friends your interests might change what you prioritize in your life might change and expressing those to people around you uh is inevitably going to be difficult as I have had many difficult conversations with my family you had many difficult conversations with your family and also longtime friends very close people very close people like you said people who you pray for on the regular basis probably if you do talk to them it will be a long time from now and you know whatever you know well the conversations are just formal they're not real they're not right they're not real but that like if you are moving towards emancipation you're freeing yourself from the being that you are not and you are becoming more of who you are then those around you should be happy for you and to be able to hold space for where you're coming from even if they disagree even if it's a disagreement and this is the hardest part for me is that as I am expressing things that you know I believe and I feel as they believe and they feel I don't look at them any different for what for their belief even if it stayed the same since I was younger or they were younger or whatever but it's unfortunately not met on the reverse side all the time it isn't and there is judgment and resistance and then there is that little poker of what shame and guilt and for me if I am in a more congruent place with myself and I have found uh a synthesis of philosophies that live inside of me more harmonious and that improves my life then those people around me regardless of their own ideologies should be happy they should be able to to hear what I have to say and feel what I have to share and not hold it against me because it is not in line with what they believe so I mean I agree with you I think the weird thing for if it's like a tangential person no I'm talking about close people becauseand who cares you know you know if you get to people who are more tangential in your existence you can kind of be like okay well we don't say the same things we'll talk about the Bears drafted Caleb Williams that's fine that's cool yeah Bears should about that that's fine when you get to people are really close like romantic Partners close family members close family members yeah where like you know these things are you're impacting each other you know what they do impacts you what you do impacts them yeah your romantic Partners your close family family your close friends you know uh that's a that's that's a serious Buddhist tantric problem there's no way around that real and I don't know the answer to it except that in my own model of you know we're all building our own spiritual reality you know we're all building I like to think of it like we're all building our own stages of the path right yeah you know um so when I look at it like if I look at it really honestly I think those people you better be in the same head space with better be somewhere where you can occupy the same head space with other thing otherwise I think you do have a s problem yes right yeah like if you want to go this way and this other person wants to go this way look it's gonna cause you some hassles it's no doubt yeah we did an episode on or Priscilla and I did an episode on S called the community uh a few weeks ago so for those who are interested in you know deeper dive on S then you know they could check that one out I mean I I I mean I think that might actually have to be the case like if you don't get close to the same wheelhouse yeah know it's going to be a problem I guess it's kind of like trying to raise kids with someone that you don't see the world the same way totally [...] like that's not good I won't talk in too much detep about but I happened to talk talk to an old old friend and like eventually it was like man he and his wife don't see the same the world the same way you know and you can I mean it's it's a problem you can imagine situation one person's all GOP the other person's all on the left how are you going to raise a kid you can't but libertarian Centrist we're a we're the centrists we're the centrists we don't like anything or anyone ever you like everything's supposed to be a Centrist Now in America everything's so I'm the Centrist who knows where the [...] Centrist is they don't they don't exist I'm in the center I I mean like the thing that struck me is kind of tragic about it too and I had like I think you have to face it like let's say you really have a desire to be a spiritual person like that's really where your jam is you can find yourself in situations with people with it'll hold you back I can't lie right it'll hold you back you know so you know you have to like give people the chance to evolve with you right yeah yes that's true that's true you do have to give chance to evolve with you but I mean if I I definitely had the experience like oh this person isn't going to evolve with me yeah a going to happen like dear friends where I'm I agree I agree I agree gonna happen this person is not going to evolve with me yeah I'm thinking of a childhood friend right now and I'm like okay then that's I guess that's how this is yeah the weird thing for me that I've been thinking about a lot in the past you know there's a kind of a special little window of time in the little buddist calendar where um we had like one of the Bliss days over the weekend but it was also one of these days where it's sort of this little period where it's supposed to acknowledge the Buddha's birth and Enlightenment and then passing on they choose this sort of this little symbolic window but usually that means there's some good vibe energy going on during that period you can get you could feel a little insightful and I did feel insightful and I was like um I was going yeah this is really tough but if your if you go back to your core and your core is like let's say you're listening to this and like okay I want to psychos spiritually develop myself or like even you get ambitious I want to be enlightened I want to try to go for the Deep ideas if the people around you aren't in that same head space it's a real problem I can't lie it's a real deep problem mhm you know yeah I don't know what to say about it except I think that that's true yeah my uh my partner likes to say your Vibe attracts your tribe yes there you go right or not you know and that depends on whether you're congruent well right but you'll attract other non- congruent people yes or I mean to be honest about or you'll just attract the people who are wrong you know like they're not the right folks because you're not putting out who you really are right you're attracting folks who are like basically latch if you go Carl Rogers they're latching onto your self-concept the false one the false one I I think false one they're laxing on to the false concept and then like that's the people who are around you and they're gonna want you to be true to that false concept over the years I can say that has been the biggest turnoff for me oh yeah yeah for sure the biggest turnoff when people have like a false concept and you find out that it's false no no no no people who are attracted to my false concept well it's a problem because it's a reminder that that I have one and that a reminder that like that's totally not me yeah yeah yeah it's an a of course it's an aspect we all have how we present how we look what we're attracted to or you know in terms of like our own style or you know yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you know this kind of thing you're a persona kind of yeah like a Persona thing but there's also aspects of that that are project that are projection of your kind of like false self you know yeah and um when people over the years have been attracted to that part or they say oh I bet you do blank or I bet you're like blank and it's so off you know you're like no you don't see me at all yeah I remind you of somebody else I there there's a there's a story here that we probably should wrap because for time purposes but it's a good one uh so I was in a community college um in a in a small suburb outside of Illinois when I uh moved back to the Chicago land area after I lived in California and got out of the military and so I was taking this uh adult uh development psychology course and um there's a very smart uh African-American lady who was in the class with with me and uh we sat next to each other in most of the classes and we always had good conversation and she's like look Dani I got two kids and a baby daddy but you know I just want to tell you I like your brain and I said oh well thank you so much she's like I'm going to introduce you to my friend she's super tall really pretty you know really nice gal was in the Navy I'm GNA introduce you so I never met her so it was a blind date so we met up and went out and hung out a couple times and it was fine and one night she came over and she worked later she was a nurse and she worked a bit later um and she's like hey I'm really hungry and I was like oh well there's nothing around here we're in these like suburbs I was living with my father before I moved into the city proper everything closes at like 9 exactly and this was probably about like 9:15 9:30 I was like there's a Wendy's there's a Wendy's down the road Wendy's is a fast food restaurant for those who don't know but I'm assuming most do so we went and she ordered you know whatever hamburger fries and a soda you know whatever you know a meal and uh they said okay what kind of what kind of uh drink would you like ma'am and she um said Dr Pepper and then she turns to me in this really interesting but super cringy way and she said I like my pop dark and my men white God and I just like I I just sort of like you know she was leaning over me because I'm driving and so she just like turned her face face towards me as she was leaned over and I just like shrunk back in the seat and got like really small and really started Zing yeah I'm like trying to lay lay the seat back I'm like I hope no one sees me I really hope that dude didn't hear that you know what I'm saying like you had talk about shame guilt and embarrassment it was like all the way at the roof you know what I'm saying but at that moment I realized that like what the other person had seen in me was she said I like your brain that's what she liked my mind and this person maybe did I don't know who knows she doesn't have class with me so she doesn't see me in that way he saw me and wanted to hang out with me because of how I appeared to her and and her sexual preference which we're all entitled to have for sure but at that moment I realized that like I was a stereotype or I was uh you know a symbol of something that she enjoyed but that actually wasn't me it was a such a huge turn off so anyways there's a real story from from dani's life you know what I'm saying yeah it's the adventures of Daniel yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you know I think like the deepest loves you can have is for someone's mind oh yeah without a doubt that's the deepest loves and I as far as it goes like you know that feeling of whether it's in congruence one more time the episode's gonna end that like Clos in time you got to get those last drinks in yeah when you really think about it I don't know I've been thinking kind of deep and if you get someone you know like the Carl y different people have different orientations towards the world type one people are struggling to get themselves stable type two people are like more in the societal domain right type three people are creative breaking out we were talking about that last week type four are more psychospiritual or something anyways if you look at that I think if you're if you want to be a type four person and your your peeps you're with are like type twos it's going to be hard I just don't see around that it's going to be really hard because you're not then it's not s you know so maybe as you find out who you are you find you know more what you believe you start to like find the people who are supportive of that yeah I it's it's not easy to do this [...] anyways no but you're not getting support or you're not in congruence with the people within your your circle right that gets really hard they'll get dragged off in other directions right because the momentum of those people will carry you off in other ways totally espe if you're being led by you know what you're talking about like you're being led by your you know your self-concept which isn't you the false part of who you are will go along with that and next thing you know you're in some [...] up thing and and and Eric that's the seventh obstacle oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay to be continued that's right number seven but it is like it's not it's a it's a big deal right gota be you yeah you gotta do it whoever the [...] you are be congruent one more shot no like and I think like the big thing to like pull it all together when I was doing this 72 names of God I was like okay I don't feel these things because I'm not in these terrible situations anymore where I feel like I'm not being who I am and then the other person is interacting with some false version of who I am and everything's [...] up yeah you feel bed about it you know you find yourself doing things that you feel bad about yeah the whole thing isn't like fitting up all right anyways I think it's a good conversation right I think we got some stuff that yeah yeah for sure some of the M of stuff like the 72 names will clarify this some of the is like more like that psychological filtering who am I really what do I believe you know I don't really believe this I got to get rid of this you have to has to go try to tap into the core things of how you feel if there's um psychological blocks we've talked about people like how you deal with like different kinds of psychological blocking and then you know be honest with the people around you yeah know yeah yeah okay SS good yeah good all right well as always thank you so much my friend for joining me on the yeah on the on the train wherever we're headed uh and thank you to uh our audience whether you're listening or or watching or you know maybe doing both combination of both you're doing the dishes or driving and you have us on the screen and it's pumped through your Bluetooth and you're uh doing all the things or you know it's on mistakenly because you thought it said uh Jinn and Tantra was something else but you know you're still here and if you made it to the end uh welcome to the uh top 10% of attention spanners SP spammers spaming people I don't know whatever um so so good work give you a kudos for doing that uh and as always we want to thank our sponsors oh that's right that's us we are not sponsored by anybody uh except ourselves so um you know we appreciate just people sharing our work that's really what it's about you know so uh like comment subscribe leave a you know leave a little comment if you want and the Instagram at Jin and Tantra podcast or hit us up at Jin and Tantra gmail.com for Eric this is Daniel we'll catch yall on the next one peace [Music]